Houellebecq, maybe the demographic's have changed but from what I'd seen in the past it mostly was young people doing the chaplaincy stuff. Ones close enough to the kid's age to relate to them but with less life experience than the feminist social worker you are stiring the pot with.

There were older people doing some of the RE stuff but I think that the chaplain's did as much of that as they could fit in.

There may be a little of the wise old head but I suspect that a fair portion of the older people doing RE would be more in the group of those who'd been so immersed in the church for many years that they did not understand the outside world.

I don't know if any of our resident fundies teach RE but try and picture one of them in front of the class rather than a Morgan Freeman type.

R0bert

Houellebecq

'Being influenced by man hating feminist counsellors, drawn to the job solely because of some abuse by their parents or a violent boyfriend, trying to heal themselves by indoctrinating kids with man hating victim mentalities and pushing prozac?'

How many other stereotypes do you live your life by without actually seeing the people? Some of these 'feminist counsellors' have prevented kids from killing themselves. The hate in your words is overwhelming.

Supernova "The hate in your words is overwhelming."

Save your stress for something that matters. Houellebecq is just an amateur troll that makes 90's Usenet trolls look like rocket scientists. He really doesn't even rate as a devil's advocate or genuine contrarian (too much hard work involved). He just lays bait and waits for you to bite. A rebel without a pause - it crosses his mind and voila! its spattered on your screen. Press your ear against his and you can hear the ocean.

Huellebecq. As Ammonite pointed out - "Femi-nazi Prozac Pushers". Come on, do you really believe all counsellors are "man-hating feminists"?
Really?
This disqualifies you from participation in this argument just like me claiming seriously that all chaplains are child-abusing, death-cult worshipping monsters would justify dismissing me. Just in case... I am not claiming that all chaplains are child-abusing, death-cult worshipping monsters. Honest.

Philo. I agree that chaplains SHOULD be qualified counsellors. The problem is that they are not. All they HAVE to be is religious. This doesn't hold enough of a guarantee for a large chunk of the population who have watched in horror as revelations of abuse by Christian priests came one after the other for years.
One persons perception of the nature of one chaplain in one school does not an argument make. I'm sure your chaplain never does anything wrong but others have. How much time have you spent with him in the school environment? Or are you just a parent with nothing but second hand knowledge?

stevenlmeyer. The one thing you neglected is that some kids are more vulnerable than others. You were well enough adjusted to balance it all, some aren't. Some kids are circumstancially or inherently easier targets for zealots whether religious or not. This is all about them.

david f. The irony is beautiful. Thank you.

runner. Why is a non Christian more likely to be a good person than a Christian. Historically, religion in general and Christianity in particular have been the justification for more suffering, bigotry and cruelty than just about anything else in human history.
Watch an American kiddy beauty pageant and then ask the parents if they are Christians before you talk about sexualisation. Not subscribing to one narrowly defined mythological belief structure does not mean amorality

pt 2 (sorry, too much to say...)

More generally,

Yes, by technical measure this is unconstitutional and it is being challenged legally.

To all of you who say that it's a good thing to have a religious chaplain, ask yourselves how you would feel if the Church of Scientology took an interest and started posting chaplains. They have just as much a legal right to place people as Access.

I don't have a problem with religious chaplains provided they are qualified to do the job they are hired for. This means counsellors, teachers, psychologists and social workers. These are real human beings with just as varied a world view and personal history; The difference is that they all spend years training to do the job without personal bias. None are perfect but all are more qualified than any current chaplain I have yet heard of.

I do have a problem with chaplains having to be religious. This is unconstitutional.

School is for the kids to learn how to function in the real world, not the next. If they are to be taught religion at school, it should be comparative not indoctrination. They should learn to think before they are told to believe.

Finally, I am fed up to the back teeth of all of these self-righteous, ignorant fools blustering that this is an attack on Christianity by the evil secularist hordes. It used to be funny but now it's a joke repeated too many times. We don't care what you believe - that's up to you. This is the whole point of a free society. But for you to DEMAND that our children are indoctrinated into your chosen faith is like a toddler demanding all the toys. Grow up, open you eyes and look around. Think for yourself and actually consider the other viewpoint.

Of course, none of this is relevant to the original article, which was about ACL and Access lying through their godly Christian teeth about bigotry in one case and illegal activities on the other

Thankyou Jane for your article. It resonates with my own experience of the fundamentalist mindset. Best wishes on your personal journey.

Perhaps my greatest disappointment in the recent controversies (SRI, chaplains, Jim Wallace tweet) is the visceral hostility of Christian leaders to the secular state. Previous generations understood that their individual freedom of worship depended on the restraint and tolerance of everyone else. By extension, if your sect asks for special favour from the state, you can't complain when it gives greater favour to others. Christians supported the secular state, and only expected the state to guarantee their freedom of worship, not to endorse their particular beliefs. The creation of Victoria's secular state school system is an especially enlightened example. But our current Christian leadership doesn't even notice they are seeking to erode this precious freedom. Their only argument seems to be that "Australia is a Christian country, so we are special", which isn't even true - Australia is a free country. They just make stuff up.

Where are the tolerant, truthful and reasonable Christian leaders? This should be easy - secularism is a direct consequence of the golen rule. By allowing the ACL and ACCESS ministries to represent Christianity in the public square, the brand is being trashed.