Jane,

Your description of Christian leaders as "sickening, deceptive,anti-gay, dishonest" I think speaks more of the hurt you have experienced rather than any clear-cut case of actual deception which you seem desperate to present.

To label Jim Wallace's comments as racist surely shows a lack of understanding regarding Islam, which is indeed not a race of people at all, but rather a worldview. I could say the same regarding saying someone is anti-gay simply because they hold to the traditional version of marriage. Perhaps you should be a bit more careful when judging others like this.

In regard to ACCESS ministries you seem to think all Christian chaplains as simply too stupid to be able to balance aq professional job with appropriateness of conversation. It is true that Christians are called to share the gospel, but if a Christian teacher in a public school can hold this line, then surely a Chaplain can as well.

Thank you for sharing your perspective though, and I hope you find what you are really searching for.

Many decades ago in a galaxy far away in another country young Steven attended Camps Bay Primary School. This being South Africa in the 1950s we had a bible reading at “assembly” every morning. We also had “scripture” classes twice a weekly and regular hymn singing. The only hymn I can remember is “Onward Christian Soldiers.”

And what effect did this have on us Jewish boys and girls?

Nothing. De nada. Not a thing. It was just one more idiocy of school life. The moment we got into the playground or left school we forgot all about it. It made even less impression on us than history and geography.

Nor were our parents upset at the thought of their little darlings blaring out “Onward Christian Soldiers.” In fact I do not ever remember it coming up in discussion. No one cared.

What of the Christian children? Did scripture classes and regular hymn singing affect them.

So far as I can see the answer is no. I know for a fact most of them did not attend church or Sunday school because I used to play with them on Sunday mornings. Those few whose parents used to drag them off to religious services were upset at missing out on the fun.

So is this all a bit of drama about nothing?

I suspect it is.

I am a fan of the TV series hustle. See:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379632/

As they demonstrate, you can only con someone who is willing to be conned. I suspect the kids who are conned by the chaplains are the ones who want to be conned or whose parents want them to be conned.

I partly agree with you, stevenlmeyer, that there is evidence of overreaction, but I'm not convinced the problem perceived is quite as benign as you present.

>>So is this all a bit of drama about nothing?<<

I too experienced the "church school" environment of the fifties, where we were trundled round the corner to the church itself at the drop of the proverbial hat. I recall we even "celebrated" Ascension Day, with all the earnestness that nine-year-olds bring to such mysteries. All of which affected me not in the slightest. I didn't feel indoctrinated, merely inconvenienced or - for example at Harvest Festival - entertained.

But I am detecting an underlying evangelical zeal these days that was conspicuously absent back then. I suspect that because it was all part of the CofE fabric, no-one really thought it necessary to create soldiers for God, or whatever. Nowadays, with the constant background fear generated by those who believe Islam to be ready to murder us all in our beds, there seems to be a "catch 'em young" philosophy that I used to associated with hard-nosed Jesuits.

It also seems to be most evident in Queensland, for some reason...

Jane, I’m just staggered that you are staggered. It is not lies and deceit, it’s Marketing.

Jane thanks for this, well put.

I've not read Jim Wallace's tweet so I can't comment on it but the spin, lies and deception around the christian response to the RE issue has been somewhat telling. As a former christian it's not how I believed that servant's of the truth should behave. Not overly surprising, once you start to accept that the lies are happening they volume becomes somewhat overwhelming.

Nick_ whilst it may seem a convenient to claim "speaks more of the hurt you have experienced" that's a cop out to try and avoid the truth in what Jane has written. Another one of those lies christains are so fond of to avoid dealing with some hard truth's.

I put a challenge on one of the RE thread's some time back, I've forgotten the wording but basically it was a request for christains to make a clear statement that they really believed that the focus of RE was on cultural value's, biblical literacy etc rather than an attempt to evangalise children. No responses that I've seen.

Supporters of the RE programs have been portraying the program's as being harmless telling of a few bible stories, a desire to help children understand the context of the bible in western culture etc. None seem to be fessing up to what is said quite openly in churches, chaplaincy and RE are about trying to win kid's to Christ.

R0ber

what a wonderful and wonderfully written article. no place for patronising here, either - it just won't wash! and on whether religious instruction is benign or not - for many who underwent religious instruction at school, atheism or agnosticism was the outcome, although others took 'fundamentalist' paths. the issue here, is, though, should the federal government fund chaplains? the answer is no. the australian constitution was written (s. 116) to ensure there was no 'established' church and funding the teaching of religion in schools is a clear breach. let's hope the australian high court is capable of seeing it that way. again, thank you for such a concise and telling piece.