well there is no doubt that the more secularised we become the more violence, the more child molestation, more sexualisation of kids, more divorcce, more perversion,more pornography, more suicide, more drugs etc etc etc. Oh that's right as long as the standards for the SAS are lowered to allow women to pass the feminist are happy. Look at Jesus and then look at the secularist high priests and you can easily see why secularism produces putried fruit. Secularism is nothing short of self righteous god hating humans who are to blinded by their dogmas to see what they have produced.

@The Blue Cross wrote:
>>"Baptists believe in THE most extraordinary things, including the need >>to barcode everyone's foreheads, so God will know who is allowed to go >>to Heaven.
>>
>>Not that there is enough room there, even for all the Christians in >>the world, just 100k of the lucky blighters will make it."

err... no, they don't believe either of things. I'm not sure where you're getting your information.

It's incorrect to suggest that Christianity (or any other religion) alone provides us with our values or standards of morality. These things are are a social agreement made to suit their time.

For example, consider the current self-righteousness of fundamentalist America.

Many of its proponents may have ancestors who - only a few generations ago - kept slaves and further back may have burned the occasional witch or slaughtered Indian tribes. Different rules for different times.

These things were all sanctioned by religious interpretation at the time and perhaps in another generation or two, we may also be considered morally misguided by our own descendants.

Considering the current state of the world, they will probably be correct.

To Kenny

The “Enlightenment” was the product of North European Christians who rejected the concept of the Ptolemaic Universe and Papal Infallability. Many of the people which we today would be called “scientists” were Protestant clergy; even Darwin studied to be a Minister of the Church of England.

To Morganzola

Civilisation has always advanced upon the point of a sword. Stronger tribes have been taking the territories of weaker tribes since time immemorial, and that applies to aborigines, Maoris and Red Indians. Everybody did it, so please stop pretending that the white race is the prime offender. It is a rare country indeed which still contains its original inhabitants, and those are some of the most backward and barbaric on the planet anyway.

If Canada, the USA, New Zealand and Australia had not been occupied by the British, then some other European or Asian society would have done so eventually, and these countries today would be sheetfights. Look at North and South America. North America was settled by the British and today is two stable and prosperous countries, despite being infested by crime and welfare dependent prone ethnic groups who want to get into the good life created by white people.

South America was occupied by the Portuguese and the Spaniards, and it is now 50 different squabbling countries with near anarchic societies, with ineffectual governments and rampant corruption. My favourite war is the “Soccor War” which occurred between Nicaragua and El Salvadore over a disputed line call in the World Cup. These loonies were shelling and bombing each other over a football game. Do you call that a mature political mindset? It is a pity that the British did not take South America too.

"infested by crime and welfare dependent prone ethnic groups who want to get into the good life created by white people.

"South America was occupied by the Portuguese and the Spaniards, and it is now 50 different squabbling countries with near anarchic societies, with ineffectual governments and rampant corruption."

@ LEGO

You are bigoted towards Catholic Christians? You would like sectarianism?

I like the way LEGO refers to ethnic or indigenous societies as "barbaric"- as if modern Western war machines don't galumph around the planet dropping bombs and firing artillery every time they need a few more resources.

Ask the locals in the "newly democratised" regions of the world if the sight of their loved ones bring blown to bits and classified as "collateral damage" warms their hearts with the balm of religiously inspired love?

Barbarity against one's own species is a speciality of man, and is not confined to indigenous or ethnic people outside of the white European paradigm - it is a universal blight upon so-called human moral supremacy.