The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Are Christians really the source of Oz values? > Comments

Are Christians really the source of Oz values? : Comments

By Leslie Cannold, published 21/4/2011

As the Ad Hoc Interfaith Committee explains, the main tolerance many Christians thought deserved legal protection was their

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. Page 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. 8
  10. ...
  11. 25
  12. 26
  13. 27
  14. All
And just for the hell of it I thought I would post this quote from Mark Twain, simply because it is one of the best of all time.

During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. The Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after doing its duty in but a lazy and indolent way for 800 years, gathered up its halters, thumbscrews, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood. Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry.
Mark Twain - Bible Teaching and Religious Practice
Posted by Neil of Ipswich, Thursday, 21 April 2011 8:27:55 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Oooh, today's 457th Christian-bashing from the MSM.

And the predictable back-slapping comments from the usual suspects, who cherry pick the "Worst of" Christian history, while completely ignoring the "Greatest Hits".

Since the majority of post-colonised Australians have been Christian (and still are) how could this *not* influence our cultural development?
Never mind the previous centuries of Christianity in Britain and Europe before Captain Cook ever set foot here.

You guys talk a lot about liberty, and give credit only to the Enlightenment for this.

Personal liberty requires free will, which is an inherently Christian concept.
Adam and Eve could not eat the fruit unless God gave them Free Will.
Jesus' apostles and disciples could not accept him without Free Will.
Christians *must* in fact *choose* Jesus as their saviour.
Choice requires liberty.

Other faiths have contributed, um, zilch to our history.

As for your substitute god, Reason.

Reason led governments to think it was okay to sterilise or murder people considered mentally or physically defective.

Reason led governments to conduct drug and mind control experiments on soldiers (sometimes without their informed consent).

Reason led governemtns to make machine guns and atomic bombs. More efficient than rifles and swords.

How about a "Separation of Reason and State"?
Oh, we already have that.
Posted by Shockadelic, Thursday, 21 April 2011 9:47:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
[Deleted for abuse.]
Posted by Dug, Thursday, 21 April 2011 10:39:17 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Any serious student of history would conclude that the Judaeo-Christian religions are the source of Oz values. Sadly, it is the secularists who are doing their best to destroy those values.
Posted by Raycom, Thursday, 21 April 2011 10:41:59 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Reason is obviously something that is beyond you, Shockadelic. Some of us will never accept the arrogant claim by Christians that their primitive belief system has some automatic right to control our moral behaviour.
Posted by Neil of Ipswich, Thursday, 21 April 2011 11:10:39 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@Shockadelic: Nobody said Christianity has had no influence. But, Australia has been subject to a host of influences including Enlightenment thinking, science, rationalism, spiritualism, atheism, Chartism and the religions and cultures of the various waves of non-Anglo-Celtic immigrants. Note, also, that the Christian influence has not always been positive. Just ask the Aborigines and residents of early Christian orphanages.

At the time of Australian settlement, the Enlightenment was in full swing. The Enlightenment was a reaction against a century of bloody and divisive religious wars. The intelligentsia of the 18th century (including Governor Phillip) largely embraced rationalism. Meanwhile, the convicts held religion and the clergy in disdain. Australia's first chaplain wrote that he was made to feel as if "neither God nor I was wanted at the founding of the new nation".

To say that other faiths have not contributed to Australia's history shows a woeful ignorance of Australian history. What about Aboriginal spirituality? What about the thousands of Chinese Buddhists who flocked to the goldfields? In 19th century Sydney, freethought and spiritualist meetings regularly attracted crowds of up to 3000 people. Indeed, one of our founding fathers and Australia's second prime minister, Alfred Deakin was a spiritualist.

Enforced sterilization, mind control experiments, and the development of the atomic bomb? The common denominator is America, the west's most religious nation. The people behind these projects were, generally speaking, good Christians just like you and Mr Wallace. America's sterilization program was widely supported by mainstream Presbyterian clergy. The head of the drug and mind control experiments, Sidney Gottlieb, pursued at various times, agnosticism, Christianity and Zen Buddhism. It is said of him that much of his life was a religious quest. CIA director, Allen Dulles, who authorised the project, was from a very religious family - the son of a Presbyterian minister and the grandson of a Presbyterian missionary in China.

And, finally, Australia has no legal or constitutional separation of church and state. The 1981 Defence of Government Schools ruling clarified this.

Might I suggest that before you post again you spend a little time checking your facts?
Posted by Chrys Stevenson, Thursday, 21 April 2011 11:18:37 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. 4
  6. Page 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. 8
  10. ...
  11. 25
  12. 26
  13. 27
  14. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy