oz value..[now there is a joke]
xtians cant even get the rule number one clear
[putting no 'god'..before god
to wit..the father..not the son]

it cant get through its creed
that jesus didnt* die
thus couldnt have died for us to sin

he died..or he didnt die
but lets look at the possable teaching of him dying

he died in the flesh
but his spirit returned
[to prove there is no common reserction day]

ie we die..[in our material body]
and are reborn in spirit..[in our soul body][astral body]

its not complicated..but religeons need to make it complicated
just as poli-tricks..make governing via spin look trickey

[lawyers making laws for other lawyers
financiers making gifts to other rich]
the bankers stealing the fed reserve bank as well as the mint

yeah they got that direct out of the xtian deciets
[who not only stole gods giving us all our life
but took god away..gasve us a christ..a trinity no less

we got a pope..who cant explain
to a child why bad things hapen to kids
[thats not god son..thats satanists]..this world belongs to satan
[it is betweixt and between heaven and hell]

to get here you must first have rejected
gods love..gods grace..gods mercy..have rejected heaven
now must chose by our works wether we earned hell or heaven

its not complicated..god dont judge us
our deeds do..the good we CHOSE to not do
or the bad things we chose to do

god is all loving
[if its not of love
its not of good..]
and so its not..*of god

[good/god..get it?]

why did god bring the sunamie?

*god didnt!

god sustains ALL LIFE our living
no god..no life..its as simple as that

no xtains are serving satan
but they realise it not

those serving god
serve to the good

if its not good
its not of/for/from.. god*

govt serves the money-changers[demons]
religeons serve demons..we all* live on through eternity
wether your baptist budist swedish or jew...[lib/lab or green]

we die here
live on there

why arnt we talking about jesus resection?

I watched a DVD some time ago that identified the links of the Chinese pictographs with the historical stories of Genesis 3 - 9 and including the sacrifices to the Lord of heaven. There has also bee books written on the subject by Chinese authors. Their society was founded on principles of love, self sacrifice and integrity etc.

http://www.harpercollins.com/books/Finding-God-Ancient-China/?isbn=9780310292388

Neil of Ipswich "Some of us will never accept the arrogant claim by Christians that their primitive belief system has some automatic right to control our moral behaviour."

I never made such a claim.
The claim was that Christianity was a *principal* influence in the development of Australia.
Do you refute this? And remember "Australia" is continuation of European culture, Christian for many centuries before settlement here.

Chrys Stevenson "Australia has been subject to a host of influences."

Christianity is a *fundamental* influence.
Please explain how Hinduism, Islam or Buddhism has played a *fundamental* role in Australia?

"The intelligentsia of the 18th century (including Governor Phillip) largely embraced rationalism."

The Enlightenment and its adherents are not inherently *opposed* to religion as today's militant atheists would like us to believe.
Many leading scientists and thinkers were Christian, and few were overtly atheist.

"To say that other faiths have not contributed to Australia's history shows a woeful ignorance of Australian history."

To claim they were *significant*, rather than peripheral, is woefully ignorant.

"What about Aboriginal spirituality?"

Ignored.

"What about the thousands of Chinese Buddhists who flocked to the goldfields?"

Despised.

"spiritualist meetings regularly attracted crowds"

Spiritualists are not necessarily non-Christian.
Again, a peripheral element.

"Enforced sterilization, mind control experiments, and the development of the atomic bomb? The common denominator is America"

Morally questionable "rational" actions by government were not restricted to America.
Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia were essentially atheistic (Russia *officially* so) and looked what happened.

"The people behind these projects were, generally speaking, good Christians just like you."

Why do presume anyone who defends Christianity in any way must themselves be Christian?

"And, finally, Australia has no legal or constitutional separation of church and state."

There is no constitutional right to free speech either.
There are principles in our society so inherent and commonly accepted that official statements aren't necessary.
Does there need to be an explicit "right to drink milk" written down somewhere?

"Might I suggest that before you post again you spend a little time checking your facts?"

Might I suggest you stop thinking you're clever?

shockers shocking quote

""What about Aboriginal spirituality?"

Ignored.

"What about the thousands of Chinese Buddhists who flocked to the goldfields?"

Despised.""

these are rather simplistic diss-misives
[that are so easy to assosiate with xtian-believer's]

everything falls into the good/bad division
jesus is god[no he isnt]
jesus died for our sins[no he didnt]

your either a sheep..[withus]
or a goat..

your either usefull[to us]..wheat...
or tares..deserving to be ripped up by the root at harvest time
or murderd/mutated by plutonium tipped bombs..[made in the xtian heartlands of usa]

there is said there shall come the anti-christ
[if jesus himself returned..[and why would he]..
he would be labled the anti=christian..[messianic insanity]

the trouble is this concept of 'the chosen ones'

the jews got it big..[they 'alone' are the lords people]..[lol]
[who lives..but by god giving them 'life'.. to live]

and as for the xtians...only 'jesus'
can save us from hell

yet he revealed..its in our works..
[by our deeds will we be known]

he informed even an athiestic thief on the cross besides him..
he would this day be in heaven..[as we all..*soon shall be]

he came back from 'death'
revealing man..
[for such was jesus..pure man]..
huh?-man..is eternal spirit
encased within corruptable flesh..

the flesh dies..but the energy
that is 'within man'..lives on..

jesus came to unite the fathers/house
not create a new religeon

he returned to the fathers/house
[to build us a room in it..

well it seems even jesus [peace be upon him]..
even his 'house'..is now..as divided now as the fathers
seems he will be building MANY rooms..for his divided sheeple
[flock]

[i dont think i spelled that right]

bah no wonder the oz dream has become a nightmare
its built on the foot=ings of those with feet of clay
and hearts of stone..[where the grace/mercy/compassion]

Kipp,
Your statement of accusation indicates your ignorance of Christianity.

You said, "Runner, Philo and Jim Wallace you are aware that Jesus Christ had two fathers!
There was this bloke named God upstairs and Joseph downstairs, and you lot think Homosexulity is an abomination!"

The fact is father refers to two different references of reality. Jesus said of his accusers "You say Abraham is your father" meaning a descendent of the flesh of Abraham assuming Abraham's nationalist/ family favour with God for Israel "But I say, you are fathered by one who opposes God" meaning the father of their spirit and behaviour was opposed to God. Abraham's favour with God was based in his attitudes and actions not in his genetics. Unless his offspring actually followed Abraham's faith and attitudes they had no favour with God.

Christians call God father because they seek to follow his atitudes and examples of love.

Kipp,
The fact that some men prefer to deposit their fertile sperm into the dung hole of another man indicates their value of their offspring and their view of themselves and their future. I do not have to say they are involved in abominale practises - they know it themselves.