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The Forum > Article Comments > Grown up girls take responsibility > Comments

Grown up girls take responsibility : Comments

By Jennifer Wilson, published 4/3/2011

Hey girls, let's not waste our energies blaming men. Let's take responsiblity for our own behaviour.

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It's interesting that modern Western society has warped the human experience to such an extent that we really don't know which way is up.
It seems that those in opposing camps will forever be debating or sermonising over a woman's role as sexual provocateur and the amount of responsibility she should accept for it.

Drunkeness or any kind of psychologically induced bravado or escape is well and truly sanctioned by society. The overindulgence in alcohol is in many circles part of the ritual of courtship and socialisation between the sexes.
In an atmosphere charged with the implicit acceptance that many, if not most, of the participants are affected by alcohol, it is difficult to avoid situations where women are not at some degree of increased risk.
Posted by Poirot, Friday, 4 March 2011 2:34:43 PM
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pelican,

I have had sex paralytic drunk and every time I have given consent. The next morning it was mostly revealed to be a great idea, notwithstanding the odd effects of beer goggles/bunny boilers. But I take responsibility for each and every time. Women are not expected to take this responsibility, it is encumbered on the man to be a Gentleman and to decide paternalistic-ally for women whether they are sober enough to make informed consent. The law is gender neutral but designed to protect women and applied by societal expectations of men being the sexual aggressor.

I have also been taken advantage of while asleep by one night stands, and I believe those 'rapists' are entitled to believe that if I had sex with them 4 hours earlier in the same bed that I would be up for anything not causing pain as a nice way to wake up. No matter what people say, unless aided with an unambiguous verbal 'No', or someone being literally unconscious (Who hasn't just had sex earlier in the night), consent is a grey area. In short, women should be responsible for verbalising their consent, rather than men be required to read their minds and state of intoxication.

Two drunk people often have sex. This always turns out to be the responsibility of the man. There's no denying this is inequitable.

James,

a) Generally men are expected to be able to hold their liquor, and women not.
b) It's expected men should be happy to have sex with any woman who offers it.
c) The fashionable representation of sex is 'penetration'. Though I like to use 'enveloping', to encourage women to think of themselves as sexually assertive.
d) If a man becomes erect, he is deigned to be up for it (If that were ever to be under question, which is unlikely). If a woman gets a wet patch, it's just a physiological reaction and nothing to do with consent.

Such are the times we live in. Most men are aware of this and can therefore make an informed risk-assessment.
Posted by Houellebecq, Friday, 4 March 2011 2:41:20 PM
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Poirot,

'Drunkeness or any kind of psychologically induced bravado or escape is well and truly sanctioned by society. The overindulgence in alcohol is in many circles part of the ritual of courtship and socialisation between the sexes.'

Agreed! Which is why it's unfair to treat drunken sex as solely a mans responsibility, and it's naive to think that clear verbal communication is going to be a part of drunken lustful sex.

In the absence of verbal communication, consent should be assumed. If I go home with a girl, both drunk, and go up to her bedroom and discover she has a crazy soft toy collection or believes in astrology, it's up to me to say no. I don't silently and unenthusiastically go through with the sex anyway and cry rape, because, hey, she didn't actually *ask* me for consent.

'... it is difficult to avoid situations where women are not at some degree of increased risk.'

Well! How so? Is that because sex is something which women give to men in your mind? What is the 'risk' of intoxicated people who have sex with someone they barely know, and how is it greater for women?

Is 'unwanted sex' a great tragedy for women but something men are immune from? I have known many women who deliberately drink to excess to lower their sexual inhibitions and to preemptively have an excuse for being a 'slut'. Is this slut word the source of the problem? I think so. But people are constantly critiquing men's sexual ethics, and no mention is ever made of women's (ie the perpetual victim) sexual ethics. The self-deception and lack of accountability that is encouraged in young women when it comes to sex is astounding.

I want to encourage women to be more sexually assertive, rather than expect men to turn down naked drunk chicks and tuck them into bed with a glass of water for their own good. If a chick did that to me I'd feel patronised and frustrated, so I imagine a young lady would too.
Posted by Houellebecq, Friday, 4 March 2011 3:05:51 PM
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But it's perfectly natural for a male to expect retribution once the sex is over - even if it was initiated by the female: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVy0uRDf41g
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 4 March 2011 3:41:23 PM
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For me the article is just a new spin on political correctness.
And political correctness always takes the context for granted.
In the context of our materialistic, commodified world, exploiting feminity, flesh and sexuality are par for the course. It's interesting the way Jennifer identifies these qualities with their respective products; she doesn't have shares in lingerie does she?
Of course I'm just a hopeless "Neanderthal" and as Jennifer says, women are "wasting our energies blaming men".
Men of course are motivated by "base" carnal motives, whereas the enlightened ladies have realised that sexuality is far more sophisticated than that; it demands products and prestigious labels.
How, Jennifer, is your brand of "feminism" different from amoral hedonism? Women don't need merely to take responsibiltity for their sexuality, or to master the art of feeling comfortable or sexy in their skin, they need to step up and take "responsibility" intellectuality and ethically for the world that patronises them. That's what feminism used to mean! Not being proud of your cleavage or comfy in your G-string--it was about matching it with men and saying "f--- you!" to patriarchy. Not taking ownership of the shopping mall!
I'm as goggle-eyed as any straight man over an attractive female, but they p!ss me off (most women) that they're so shallow and easily accommodated by the market (not to mention the moronic marketing they lap-up on day-time tv) and all the feel-good crap that "feeds off them"!
Woman as a class has long since lost my respect. Modern women are looking more and more like the biblical stereotype.
The context I allude to above is capitalism. At least men know it's bulsh!t and rebelliously revert to their baser instincts. The majority of women think all the glitz is real!
Posted by Squeers, Friday, 4 March 2011 6:01:44 PM
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Squeers, that's a disgraceful rant.

I argued that men aren't just driven by base carnal desires.

And I was arguing that women and girls must take responsibility for our own welfare instead of trashing men.

Really.
Jennifer
Posted by briar rose, Friday, 4 March 2011 6:56:43 PM
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