I usually watch Compass but after last week's version of'Pollyanna' I changed my mind.
"An Islamic History of Europe", I believe ,following the blurbs, it was about the flowering of literature and beauty in Islam, following various conquests. If that is what it all was about, I have one question......Where did it all get to?Why is there nothing coming out of Islam now besides hate and death?
Isn't it time Islam stopped living in the past? Isn't it time it encouraged the creativity of its people and added some lustre to the world ?
Why not?

mickijo - and others suggest all the sophistcation and scientific advances attained under Islam now count for little.

My gues is they had their tunr at being top dog for a while now its the turn of the West - for a while - the Chinese were once the pre eminent community on the face of the earth for a while as well - they look like making a come back pretty soon - they're in space as well now.

The greeks were boss of the wash once, the Brits, the Spanish even the Vikings and the Dutch had a go;

I really dont care that much; I guess those previous dynasties died a natural death or were thrown over when enough people got sick of them - in much the same way as might be happening now - bring it on I say; we need a bit of a change.

These terorrism laws might represent in sense a rear gaurd action to halt what might be the evolutionary transition from a dominantly Judeao/Christian model to another form.

If we take a long term perspective to think what we have got is (a) as good as it gets and/or (b) going to last forever is a bit silly.

First I apologize for taking this discussion off topic, but perhaps I did not. What often happens here is I and others find ourselves combating the racism that underlines those who purport not to be racist, to be fair minded and of course, ‘real Australians’.

And as I suspected would happen - Neither Leigh or Philostine explained what their culture is - and it’s because they can’t. Why?

Because their ‘perceived’ privilege in this country ensures that never have to explain their ness as a cultural characteristic and this is fundamental to understanding how they try to maintain their dominance in discussions about multiculturalism and racism.

When social commentators such as the eminently qualified Irfan Yusuf critiques laws or social phenomena that further entrench xenophobia - it’s seen as attack on their privilege.

Because they share a common language of racist thinking they confuse this with a common sense of all things racial. It is not.

If there’s a shared culture in Australia, it’s a culture of racialised hate thought that is considered virtuous, desirable and is mostly held by white Australians - but I’ve witnessed with people of color as well.

But invariably, this ignorance is projected at us who they consider not to be ‘ordinary Australians’, not worthy of the right to Habeas Corpus. (see Nimrod’s post)

Their “spaghetti and dim sim, kangaroo’ understanding of multiculturalism is so pathetic that it’s simply not worth discussing here in depth.

For me the importance of what Irfan’s article is the protection of our civil society, our common humanity and the need to take a broader perspectives that questions whether these laws will have a dire effect on our democracy and civil liberties. I know they will from my own and people’s history.

Philostine, I’m not a Koori so you’ll have to guess again. That you could resort to well known stereotypes of Aboriginal people to attack me sez more about you than it does me or about the culturally rich and wonderfully resilient Koori peoples. I’ll let your words of condescension speak for themselves.

Thanks Mahatma Duck, enaj, and others.

1700+ people die on our roads every year. Do we lock up people with drivers licenses or people who teach how to drive. Read the draft bill *carefully*, read all the expert advice. These laws breach human rights conventions. The only way to stop terrorists is to stop them *wanting* to carry terrorist acts. Currently murder & mass murder are illegal. Conspiracy to murder & being an accessory is also illegal. These laws are only about causing fear. Who's to say somebody doesn't call the terrorism hotline & make an anonymous accusation about you or a family member. After you have been cleared & released you arn't allowed to tell anybody or you WILL be locked up for 5 years. NO THANKS this is UNAUSTRALIAN

Over the last few days I've become steadily disenchanted with the proposed laws.

Yes Muslims would be held under suspicion the most. Howard merely had to point to London and he thought Australian would embrace his (UK) ideas. He underestimated his electorate.

The atmosphere of fear that these proposals have created (blanket advertising etc) makes is less likely that a friend/relative of a potential bomber will be comfortable talking to the authorities. This type of information is the best opportunity to headoff a violent action or any need for a violent reaction.

But the necessary goodwill in the community has turned to fear and often resentment.

I'm coming to the conclusion (it also helps lifting one or 2 insights from Sneekeepete) that greater utilisation of existing laws (there are around 30 security Acts) where appropriate and increased funding for the security agencies (already announced) is the way to go.

It seems the proposed laws where largely launched and calculated to drive a wedge in the ALP - seperating the leadership (Beazely from the left) and the Labor Premiers from their support base.

Therefore the laws when passed with some more cosmetic haggling may well make a terrorist incident more possible - although Howard and Co will be able to crackdown on the bombers with much more "resolve, resolution and other popular leadership qualities".

Australia has become a haven for the people of the world who dislike the lifestyle and opportunities of their own nations. However when they arrive here they make no attempt to assimilate to the Australian wway of life. They bring their racial hatreds with them. Yes Muslims are going to be viewed as a threat, we see Muslim men, women and even children priding themselves in the fact they will become suicide bombers, Muslim youths have gang raped girls in Sydney. They are flocking to Australia and yet have no interest in becoming Australians in the true sense of the word. They should embrace Australia or go back to where they came from.