The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Israel's loyalty oath bill > Comments

Israel's loyalty oath bill : Comments

By Antoun Issa, published 27/10/2010

Is Israel's new loyalty oath bill 'ethnocratic, theocratic, nationalistic and racist'?

  1. Pages:
  2. Page 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
Dear Antoun Issa,

As a Jew I can only agree. Ethnic nationalism is a failed form of nation formation. In today's world one cannot have democracy along with special privileges for a category of citizens based on ethnicity or religion.

It is discouraging. I see little hope for anything but continued conflict.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 10:10:13 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Most shameful, most disgusting, what else can I say?

A well written article, but just two technical corrections:

1) The proposed law would not require an oath, but just a "declaration". This means that most people will just pay it a lip-service, say what's expected of them, then take a shower and forget all about it.

2) Judaism is not a religion, nor does the new oath/declaration require allegience to a religion. Judaism is and always been a national-movement, which just happened to strategically design a religion that would further its aims.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 2:28:09 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The only reason that a member of a society would not express his or her loyalty to the nation of his domicile and citizenship is that he does not HAVE Loyalty to that nation.

It's really simple. You can disagree with specific policies yet still have fundamental loyalty to the nation. Democracy is where you have the freedom to change what you don't like.

That should have no bearing whatsoever to your basic loyalty to the nation. If you cannot be loyal..then it's simple... move to Canada or somewhere.

Loyalty does not mean blanket endorsement of every government policy.
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 3:25:14 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The bleating and whining from the Muslims/Arabs in Israel about this very honorable bill is evidence of disloyalty... it has nothing to do with 'racism' but of course..that's the first port of call for the propogandist...isn't it.

"It's Racism" = "smokescreen for seditious intent"
Posted by ALGOREisRICH, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 3:26:46 PM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Yuyutsu,

When did Judaism stop being a religion? It was one when I woke up this morning. There are three Jewish congregations in Brisbane. I'm sure all the members think it's a religion.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 4:24:26 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
ALGOREisRICH,

"Society", "nation" and "state" are 3 different terms. No Australian immigrant, nor even an Australian Member of Parliament, is required to be loyal to the Australian society or the Australian nation. What a difference!

"If you cannot be loyal..then it's simple... move to Canada or somewhere"

Quite simple, is it? so what if you cannot be loyal to Canada either, or to any other country?

Dear David,

I suppose you should ask your Brisbane friends and Rabbis whether Judaism is just a religion, or whether it is also a nation: I think you are up for a surprise.

Judaism never stopped HAVING a religion, no doubt about that, but it was never that religion itself. Historically (as opposed to legends), the same person who formed Judaism also created its religion. This was Ezra the scribe, about 2500-2600 years ago, who was heading the community that was sent back to Israel by King Koresh or Persia. He realized that what's needed to bind his community together was an exclusive religion, and so he picked up, assembled and modified various texts to form the core of what is known today as the old testament. He even had the Chutzpah to shape God Almighty according to his political aspirations for that group.

The aim of religion is to uplift man, to help one to reach God, or at least to come closer to Him. In contrast, the Jewish religion brings down its god to serve national interests.

History must admit that Ezra's nation-building exercise, however ruthless and hypocritical, was quite effective, as the Jewish nation still exists 2500 years later and even recently returned to its country of origin. Whether you support or reject the idea of maintaining nationalism even in our day and age, is a separate question.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 27 October 2010 5:14:22 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. Page 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy