Okay, before anyone else get in, chickens don't have teeth (but newborn chicks do). Otherwise I stand by my case.

Jon.J

You wont get any argument from me in what you said. You will see me at Macca's with the rest of the carnivores and at mum,s for that Sunday lamb roast. smile.

I look at things like most, if the circumstances fit with-in the human cause, and as you know, abortion has nearly always got a connecting high range of some sort of valid reasons concerning what effect the birth or the one,s have it will have, hence why we are at the top of the food chain and we just can change our environment at any time we like.

This is why humans a the biggest hypocrites. If you put some of these so-called morally high people in lets say, a have to survive situation...... I'll bet that 99.9% of them will eat the arse out of a low flying duck.

There was a plane crash, where all were trapped on a mountain in freezing conditions and most were religious in some way or form, and you what! after two weeks or so, see their dead fellow passengers, Yum.........anyone for a Hindu burger?

Thats right. all morals went right out the window when the had..had it be done.

We highly evolved humans keep the balance with the planet reasonably well, its just the greedy side of our complex self-righteousness that somehow conveniently gets in the way of our balanced and commonsensical individualistic self appointed circumstances when it benefits our situation when the need arises.

One day its NO-WAY and the next.........Well you get the picture.

OH trust me, I do the same. smile.

Thats the living my friend.

Enjoy it.

TT

As humans we are able to reason, giving us the ability to justify any stand we choose to take in life.

Do not JUDGE unless you are willing to walk a mile in my shoes.

Once upon a time I was against abortion - until I reached an age where I considered the consequences of having a child at that time of life. I COULD not have coped with another child, nor could I have coped having the child and giving it away.

My views then began to change.

A young women came to me and told me she was going to have an abortion. She asked me not to judge, but to be a support for her in her decision. She had the abortion - she KNEW it was the best decision for the child and herself.

I ask all those people who line up outside abortion clinics and shout abuse -

Would you be willing to be a LIFE TIME support to those young women finding themselves pregnant and unable to cope?

Would you be there when the young womens partner is telling her to SHUT THAT CRYING KID UP?

Would you be there when a new partner abuses the child because its in the way of his relationship with the mother?

Would you be there when the mother has no job and no income to provide properly for that child?

I recently went with my son and daughter-in-law to see the 19 week baby scan - absolutely amazing - that tiny bundle - its heart beating and body forming. The difference is, this child IS WANTED and WILL be cared for.

Do not judge unless you are willing to change the circumstances of the young women who face these huge decisions in their lives.

How many of you are willing to put your money where your mouth is?

think than move, I basically agree with you, however...

"Technically the egg is just what it is. Just an egg... its the sperm that's the living moving new entity..women are contaminated with already live micro-organisms. so yes! technically its men that make life and the reason why its so emotional"

I'd suggest that you do a bit of research before making claims such as this. The haploid female reproductive cell (ova) is just as much a living thing as the male variety (sperm). In fact the ova actually contributes more to the fetus in the form of mitochondrial DNA and well as intracellular machinery (ribosomes etc.). The ova is as much part of the female as the sperm is to male. Ova are definitely not contaminating micro-organisms and saying that it is men that make life is plain wrong. I'm happy to discuss any 'technicalities' further if required.

Dan I've read the pieces you suggested and looked at the referenced verses and nothing in there in my view makes a credible case for a fetus being regarded as a human being. I think I'd previously read the piece at http://tektonics.org/af/abortion01.html (or very similar) and the verses in Psalms and Jeremiah don't make the case for a fetus being a human to any greater degree than a potential pre-conception possibility being a human.

Eg In Psalm Psalm 139:15-16 we see reference to "When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be." which given the rate's of natural miscarriages and infant mortality throughout human history hardly makes a compelling case against abortion.

If the unformed person being women together in the depths of the earth (seemingly before the body is put together in the mothers womb) is a person then it makes for a whole other debate.

None of the referenced link touched on what appears to be induced abortions where the fetus is considered to be the outcome of infidelity.

The original piece did not touch on the number of references to the deliberate cutting open of pregnant woman in conquered towns but did refer to another piece which I read some of but not all at http://christianthinktank.com/rbutcher1.html. Some interesting points about suicide vs lingering and painful deaths although the author denies a relevance to the euthanasia debate.

The discussion regarding the accidental nature of a miscarriage caused by men fighting and striking a pregnant women seems to assume that striking the fetus is accidental but striking a women is not which does not seem to fit well with the way the passage read's - it's a convenient take on the verse but not a credible one.

R0bert

searching,
There are times when I believe an abortion is between a woman and her god, or conscience, and I also believe that if an abortion is done it should be done safely for the mother - backyard abortions should never be considered.

You ask if anyone is willing to support the mother keeping a baby, or if anyone is prepared to put their money where their mouth is.

I believe there are many. When I was far to young to be a mother, and had german measles in or around the first trimester, I had a lot of pressure to abort - legally and safely in a govt hospital. Because of faith, ignorance, or stupidity, I resisted. I started as a single mother, with ad hoc family support.

My daughter is now in her thirties, married, and has worked fulltime since leaving High school. Sure she has a few health problems like a heart murmur, a cataract and slight deafness, but she is a wonderful person. I know how lucky I was, but once I made the decision to continue with the pregnancy I was surprised how supportive the drs were.

In my life I have definiteley demonstrated that I 'put my money where my mouth is' and I do not support abortion.

It is interesting to note that many of the comments here are by men. There is no mention that some blokes say that an abortion is cheaper than maintainance!