We have divine_msn who thinks abortions are OK right up to the point of birth.

Yabby says his cut-off point is 24 weeks based on brain development.

Stezza puts it at shortly after 12 weeks based on nerve development.

McReal says that fetal movements prior to 6 months are "meaningless". I'm assuming that would be your cut-off McReal?

Time for me to declare.

I have little problem with abortion up to the end of the first trimester. It seems to me an abortion up to that point is a bit like putting down an unwanted puppy dog. It's distasteful and I wish you wouldn't but it does not have any great moral significance.

After the first trimester I become increasingly uncertain. McReal, I have read a report by the Royal College of Physicians of Edinburgh that a foetus is capable of voluntary movements as early as 18 weeks. If true I would regard that as a reasonable MAXIMUM cut-off point.

Note that many of a newborn infant's movements are also involuntary so I'm not sure the capacity to control movement should in and of itself be a criterion.

Putting it all together and wishing to err on the side of conservatism I would regard the end of the first trimester as a cut-off point for all but the most extraordinary reasons.

Obviously we are discussing straightforward cases here where no complications are anticipated and the sex leading up to the conception was consensual.

Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.

Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.

Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.

Weeks 9 and 10: Teeth begin to form, fingernails develop. The baby can turn his head, and frown. The baby can hiccup.

See! It all comes down to what sits with you on this issue.

If its murder! Then it hypocritical all the way down the line of whats human.

Rape!
Young too bare child!
Overpopulation!
Family planning!
300 hundred million starving people world wide!
Aids or detected mental or physical illness ETC!
And the list goes on.

Its because we are human and a lot can affect what and how we live on
this planet.

Its not an open and shut case.

Bad points to have abortions.

1. I don't feel like a Kidd this year.

2. I don't worry about protection love! I'll just dump it.

3. I made love to a person that's not my colour.

4. My Husband or boyfriend is forcing me too.

See! Doesn't matter what way one looks at it, someone will always find something wrong.

Now I've got a headache.

Most people will line up with one or more these above.

So? What sits with you?

TTM

Stevenlmeyers holds his views, and each all are comfortable with their minds on the matter.

Steve. I believe its still the womens final say on the matter. If she is fine with it,( again, Some-one will find what I believe wrong ) then I'll support her for the simple reason, Its not in me. and the two in involved in making it, have the reasons very humanly all talked out or what ever the case may be.

The greatest moral problem that only humans can have.

Kangaroo,s abort the joey in times of stress and or drought.ETC

And many more EG,S in nature, which we are a part of..again depending on what people sits with... and so on...

Its no wonder you hear people say! IN MY NEXT LIFE, I THINK I"LL BE A CAT OR DOG OR SOMETHING. now that I understand.lol.

See its hard at the top of the food chain. smile

TTM>

Human life begins at the instant of conception. Because a fetus is not fully formed doesn't make it any lesser a human life.

Denying that a fetus is human life is akin to living in the Dark Ages with all the superstitions and beliefs of that era.

It helps to ease the conscience of those involved in the abortion by "believing" a fetus is not a human being. What sane person is happy killing a child? Nobody. Therefore the no human being "belief" is a firmly entrenched belief system.

*It helps to ease the conscience of those involved in the abortion by "believing" a fetus is not a human being.*

You are all confused there, Rudy.

Its a being, it is human, but its not a person. Big difference.

No human brain means no person, its all quite simple really.
Dead person, no functioning brain, its a corpse.

Do you eat meat, TTM? Lambs have teeth and eyelids too -- and far more developed brains than 12-week foetuses. So do chickens and pigs and calves. Yet most of us have no problem with killing them off in their millions simply to add a bit of variety to our diet. Do you object to that? And if not, why not?

Scratch a 'pro-lifer' and you nearly always find irrational religious views sitting behind it all driving the passion. Killing a human is bad! But it's not a human! Oh well, then killing something with teeth and eyelids is bad! But what about the lamb chops you had for lunch? Oh, well, then killing something with a soul is bad! And there argument stops because we have left the real world and moved into fantasy-land.

But those with religiously-inspired views might want to consider this: God is the greatest abortionist of all.

"Spontaneous abortion is a very common experience for women. It is estimated that between 25-50% of conceptions spontaneously abort. Researchers do not have an exact figure due to the fact that when this occurs very early on, many women do not know that they were ever pregnant."

http://www.estronaut.com/a/spontaneous_abortion_common.htm

Call it even 25% and that adds up to nearly twenty million abortions a year, all carried out by God Almighty without prior consultation with the mother or anyone else. Twenty million 'babies' killed every year -- as you believe -- by your God, runner and the rest of you. Under those circumstances I would be very hesitant to condemn abortion by anyone else, wouldn't you?