runner
How is secularism morally bereft? Secularism allows, unlike fundamentalism, people to practice whatever faith they choose without fear of favour. Secularism is about protecting people like yourself to practice without fear of being persecuted or worse, killed for your faith.

What does global warming have to do with secularism. Emotive statements that have no rationale or logic only do you and your beliefs whatever they are, a disservice.

nairbe,

You write

'If we were to have a christian government we would end up in conflict with all other religions leaving us doing things against the faith.'

I personally would not want a 'Christian' Government as I doubt there is any such thing. I do however want Government with enough fortitude to call good good and evil evil. Murdering the unborn is evil. Allowing people who hate freedom and Western values to settle here is idiotic and supporting the pervert industry destroys lives and increases child abuse. Even corrupt Islamic regimes can see this hence their justification for treating the West with contempt.

A secular Government in France, Germany, England and other parts of Europe are now reaping the stupidity of secular dogmas. We are not far behind. Just ask some of the ladies that jog in the Cronulla area (oh that's right secular dogma does not allow free speech because of the hot beds of conflict they have created.

Section 116 of the Australian constitution does not enshrine 'secularism'.. it merely prohibits any particular denomination from being advanced or hindered by an act of law.

-The preamble to the constitution includes 'humbly relying on the guidance of Almighty God'

-We open Parliament with the Prayer Jesus gave called "The Lords Prayer"

On the issue "If the country is not close to God these days".. we respond "Guess who moved?" (it was not the Almighty)

Pelly

You ask:

//How is secularism morally bereft? Secularism allows, unlike fundamentalism, people to practice whatever faith they choose without fear of favour.//

Runner means by that.(I think) that secularism has no basis for morality. (in the philosphical/logical/rational sense) Because of the absense of any fundamental basis for determining 'right' and 'wrong'... 'good' and 'evil' secularism can only comment on 'beneficial/harmful' or.. 'advantageous/disadvantageous'

This of course means no less than 'the law of the jungle' and we serve the lord Machievelli as we strive for oneupmanship and personal or family or clan supremacy.

You might benefit from a bit of study in philosophy about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche#Morality

QUOTE:
In Daybreak Nietzsche begins his "Campaign against Morality".[48] He calls himself an "immoralist" and harshly criticizes the prominent moral schemes of his day: Christianity, Kantianism, and utilitarianism. In Ecce Homo Nietzsche called the establishment of moral systems based on a dichotomy of good and evil a "calamitous error"
UNQUOTE

I prefer this myself :)

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, as I have loved you" John 13.34

Hey Runner,

Speak for yourself...and I quoted Jesus' words...How is that misquoting scripture?

Is it that you haven't got the conviction, or intestinal fortitude to even attempt Jesus' statement

"And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask ANYTHING of me in my name, I WILL DO IT. (John 14:13-14 NAB)

You need to go back to Bible 101 son. Did you sleep through too many lessons?...lol

You said "Thankfully His (Jesus') word and promises are to be trusted infinitely more than u."

Well go on big fella...trust Jesus' words...pray to end world hunger and let's see it happen. Pray to end disease and let's see that happen.

What are you scared of?

Does taking your do-nothing stance indicate that you are full of hot air?

Do you represent Jesus well?

Hey, forget the diseased state of my heart Runner, did you just fail Matthew 7:1-5 http://tinyurl.com/2gx8tx2 Do not judge others & First remove the log from your own eye?

I personally dislike the word secularism...It scares people like Runner and God forbid scaring him...lol

Every time I read one of your posts Runner I have to be physically restrained from racing off to the nearest church and screaming

"Sign me up I wanna be like Runner!"...lol

You may be making men of fishes rather than fishes of men...lol

Having looked at the news lately about the churches I suspect that they are more morally bereft than secularists.

What brand do you belong to Runner?

vanna,

Criticising something does not constitute discrimination. So I’m not sure what you think is so ironic about the long overdue criticism religion is finally receiving.

<<Without religion those societies would disintergrate completely.>>

Really? If we’re that feeble, then how did humans pull through before religion arrived on the scene?

You are right about one thing though: Religion offers hope in a world torn apart by religion.

vanna wrote: "While various religions seem to be getting considerable condemnation, often from academics harboured by universities that ironically have policies of anti-discrimination, I have also seen societies so striken by poverty and hunger that the only thing keeping them going was their religion.

Without religion those societies would disintergrate completely."

Somalia is currently the most disintegrated country. The disintegration is due to religion. Various militias all driven by various versions of Islam have torn the country apart. They are repeating the process that took play in Europe several centuries ago when various brands of Christianity: Catholicism, Lutheranism, Calvinism, Anglicanism etc. were slaughtering each other in the Wars of the Reformation.

runner wrote: "It must be really upsetting to you to see how hard so many have tried to destroy this tiny nation of Israel but all to no avail."

Dear runner,

There is a reason why Israel is so tough and smart. The Israeli Jews are descended from the survivors of Christian persecution. They are descendants of the Jews who neither converted nor were killed by Christians. They preserved their faith. Weaker Jews either succumbed to the Christian mumbo-jumbo and/or were killed. At the same time Christianity was dumbing down its population by taking the brighter people and making them priests or nuns who produced few children. Brighter Jews were encouraged to marry young.

The trouble now is they feel so tough that they can take on the world. They can’t and will go under eventually. Christian persecution has created a smart, tough people. If they are smart enough they will create a secular state with civil marriage and an integrated school system for the entire population.

In Israel all marriages have to be approved by clergy of one religion or another. That means people of different religions find it difficult to marry. Most Muslims, Christians, Ultra-Orthodox Jews, Orthodox Jews and secular Jews go to schools which have only people with the same religious background. The different groups grow up hating and fearing each other. Israel has a better chance for continued survival by becoming a secular state.