The credit's God's however you are brave and courageous to deliver via explanations in layman's terms OUG; sacrificing your time and energy. For this I am thanking you. Enjoy your week and I along with undoubtedly many Australians reading your contributions.

Stephen thanks for your comments but I have never perceived myself as an enemy. :)

Pericles I think you are being unjustly harsh.

Christianity like all religions evolve and Stephen's approach is indicative of that process.

Christianity is still plagued by some despots and it certainly is not the only religion that has lent itself to abuses of authority. We al know the 'hell and fury' types who remain steadfast in the 'God as an entity' approach pushing a dogmatic line while at the same time conceding they are acting purely on faith while existing purely on a premise of fear.

My understanding was that Stephen (correct me if I am wrong) is coming from a different perspective ie. God being the tie that binds us as fellow human beings which can manifest simply as a desire to see beyond the needs of the individual.

Give me the evolved Christian who sees his faith as a way of life (similar to Buddhism) anyday over the zealot who damns us all the hell for questioning the existence of the 'supernatural' deity.

Harsh, pelican? Possibly.

>>Pericles I think you are being unjustly harsh.<<

But unjustly harsh?

I think not.

You squeeze some additional meaning from the piece that would be hidden from many of us.

>>My understanding was that Stephen (correct me if I am wrong) is coming from a different perspective ie. God being the tie that binds us as fellow human beings which can manifest simply as a desire to see beyond the needs of the individual<<

If that was his intention, then the entire "God does not exist: God insists" ramble is entirely misleading, and completely superfluous.

Because were that the case - that "God" is merely a metaphor for being nice to each other - where does Mr Crabbe's professed Anglicanism come in? Should we believe (despite all the Jensen-oriented evidence to the contrary) that Anglicanism is also just about being nice to each other?

On reflection, I'm not sure I was half harsh enough.

>>Give me the evolved Christian who sees his faith as a way of life (similar to Buddhism) anyday over the zealot who damns us all the hell for questioning the existence of the 'supernatural' deity.<<

Well yes, of course. Give me an evolved atheist, who takes his responsibilities to his fellow-humans to heart, any day over a fanatical Christian who thinks Obama is the devil. But they are hardly exclusive choices.

If Mr Crabbe is evidence of "the evolved Christian", I humbly suggest that they, collectively, have barely emerged from the primeval ooze.

i often-get...things totally-wrong
i wish..i had/the word-skills..of pericules
but accept..we all are needed..to create..the whole..life-story

which/brings me...to yet more/ommisions

the key...to god...is that we/seek..to know...the truth-of
jesus/revelation..'know..thy/masters-voice'..

[as even..a beast/in-a..stable..knows its/masters-voice]

gods..is that..still/quiet-peacefull/forgiving,loving[good],
inner-voice..within...

yet the trouble..being..
vile-begins..with/inner-wispers/..too

its a/matter..of ignoring..[the vile]..
refusing to..see/think/accord..thy brothers-weakness..
as/being-by..informed..concent/
or deliberated-will..or evil-intention

[give...all..the benifit-of doudt..
its harder/than we/might..first-think]

but there...i go..again
i meant/to say..

god is one...[atonement....;..at-one-meant..]
in time..we will/all..come-together..as one..

of one/mind/body..of good-will..
of...good/loving/living..good-will..to all

[see how..inside-us..we have all/heard..the truth's..that lead..to god]

but..the/truths...have become..dis-joined/decieving
lost..in the 24/7..war of terrorising...miss/diss-believers

[vile will/take/make..any excuse..to make-war..
all war..is un-holy..]

but/its said..no one,..can/be forced..to kill
[that excuse..simply dont wash..in the next-life]

and most surely..there is..
[energy..cannot..be created..nor..destroyed]

i said..god..[as one/unique]..seeks an equal
thus..sits..inside each/living..to at least grasp the concept

but there is no equal..for god..[not even..in/at-one-ment]
its like saying...there is an equal..for wind..
or electricity..or gravity

simply speaking..there cant be

as becomes..clear..via..the e=mc2..rule
[energy..cant/be..created]

see..life can/only-come..via life...
[passing on/its..gift]
via..a living-sperm...being admitted..into a living egg

[life from life...[life=energy]..

its/called..the/mc2..rule..to point-out the absurdity..of e=mc2..
[energy=mass..times/the speed-of/light..
times..the..speed-of/light]

..its nonsense..as many/of-mens ideas..often-are

i/lost..the 2de/correction/point..thus..go/with..the/flow

note..how jesus birth..is obscured/by crass..comercialism...

and a satan/clause...who is a god/like omnipotant..know-it/all
..who judges/us..good/bad...

when the true-god..is nothing like-that

its bad/enough...that jesus's/bith-even..is hidden..
by such deceptions/almost as/bad as the blashemy..of him
[born of woman...being the wholly-spirit..[god]

then note..how neatly..easter-eggs and bunnies obscures,his being/born-again...[rebutting completly..his dying*..for sin..
and the idea..of waiting*..for..some far-off..judgment-day]

had he/not..returned..he could/still..be awaiting...lol..judgment

but peopl/need to have it both-ways..
him/dying..so they can sin...and a omnipotant/god-head...
ready willing/to..judge..the whole-universe

its plainy..wrong...
doubilly so...when accorded/with..the other/absurdities

jesus..said..ye..unbelieving/mob..needing miracles
yet they claim..he made wine..from toilet-water[hand-wash/jars]

[no-one..could serve..the..'best-wine'..from a toilet/equivent]

[then add-in..the misery..resulting from booze]
its clear..the lesson..wasnt about..wine/making]

[but servants..not-willing..to risk/losing face..
by the master/proving..such/a poor-host..by running out/of the/basics]

same-re/feeding..4000/5000...jew's
who need-to..wash/hands..before eating

no..handwash-jars..they simply..couldnt eat
[thus/did..'eat...all-they/wished*'...lol]

[so fixed..in their/faith..were they..
even..their..messiah..couldnt..make*-them/eat...

[jesus even..ensured/this..by sitting/them..facing..each/other]

believe/only-half..of what/you..hear
[were..all*..half-right...all*..half-wrong]

only...on..is all/good...all/perfect
and he..lives/in..our-hearts..[emmanuel]

Pericles, Pelican (and anyone else):

Allow me to gurgle a response from the “primeval ooze”.

Pericles writes of my use of the word “insist”: < …you provide an idiosyncratic, and frankly inadmissible, perversion of the English language. >

Inasmuch as idiosyncracy and perversion involve challenge to cultural norms and authority, I take your comment as a compliment. :) Whether or not you admit my usage of the verb “insist” is of course up to you, but I’ll attempt to explain the reasoning behind it.

“Exist” and “insist” derived from the classical Latin “sistere” = to cause to stand, to place, to establish, etc. The addition of “ex-“gives the notion of externality and hence accessibility to public perception, and so we use “exist” to mean “to be” in an empirically verifiable sense. The prefix “in-“implies interiority. “Insist”, while keeping its usual contemporary meaning of “maintain positively” or “emphasise”, can logically also bear the locative notion of intrapersonal or subjective being.” I use it in both senses in my article.

Hence I offered the word “insist” as the solution to the problem of verbalising the notion of non-objective being. The fact that it already means “to demand” is a bonus in the article because God is a demand.

Pericles writes: < No mention of the mental effort required to reconcile the Church's position on the existence of God with your own. >

The Anglican Church embraces (or perhaps endures) a wide range of theologies, including positions like mine. And as for your charge of heresy, I would say that heretics have taught us many valuable things and I welcome their contribution.

Pericles writes: <Should we believe (despite all the Jensen-oriented evidence to the contrary) that Anglicanism is also just about being nice to each other?>

I tried to show that I experience God as the common ground of our being which demands that I acknowledge this – i.e. be authentic. Compliance will always challenge other people to do the same, and we will have to deal with defensive aggression from some. It can never be “just about being nice to each other”.

Crabsy

I find myself caught between Pericles and Pelican - not a bad place to be really, I think there is merit in what both have to say.

I feel a spiritual connection to the world around me, however no sense of a god. The idea of a god is far too anthropogenic and way too loaded with testosterone to be anything than a male biased construct.

If I was Prince Charles, I would be described as "potty" cause I don't mind a bit of a chin-wag with trees, animals and the landscape in general. I live in the Dandenong ranges - opportunities abound.

Therefore, I don't believe in formal religion particularly the Abrahamic trio - your particular emphasis on Christianity detracts from your argument. Like Judaism and Islam; very hierarchical.

I can identify with Buddhism, no supreme deity, therefore, far more equitable. However, not so sure about the reincarnation side of that religion. Should also point out that there is nothing that Jesus was supposed to have preached that has not been discussed and preached centuries before he supposedly was in existence.

I would really like to see an article that does a comparative deconstruction of the major world religions, should I hold my breath?