.

Dear Stephen, (continued)

.

At the end of my first post (above) I should have written:

A close friend of mine and eminent (Anglican) theologist even defines God as the "ultimate reality and the ultimate truth".

Sorry about that.

.

im largly in agreement with banjo

so will react to the summation of the topic
under the heading of crabbies first statement

quote..<<Christian atheism>>..is a conflicted freudian slip[term]

its at the same time a contradiction/
as much as sadly..a reality

christ is not god
yet there is a god

and those ascribing god wrongly..[deney his egsistance
thus are revealed as godless..[athiest]

to ascribe...god does not insist...
<<as a way to being truly human>

is to deney..him who sustains us our very being

to be huh-man..is to be in error
we either see...

and thank god..
for sustaining us our lives/...our logic..
or believe we are doing..it of our own influence

in-fluence...see that very term...
ascribes the flow
comming from without[outside]..to within

and within..lies the flux/..
emmanuel..godwith-{in}..us

modern neurology..is confirming..
our mind concieves,...its action..3 seconds before we actuate.

this/now science-fact affirms..an predictive/in-flux..[in-fluence]...

from with-out[outside]...or as many may know
via the revelation of swedenberg...external mind....
interacting..with the inner brain

its the inner-mind..{NOT THE BRAIN]
that survives the apparent death of the id..

[ergo/ego;..physical/mortal-self]

after the mind..that conveyed the external-flux..[without}..
to the brain..within...survives the dis-incarnation of the meat/flesh/body

anyhow..banjo..perhaps is saying it..more clear

<<God as the "ultimate reality>>
but i would see it more
as good sustaining/ultimatly...intimatly...our various realities
from within...[influx...
or if you insist...his insistance]

and without..via recognition..by his influx
that we are existing..ergo...ego

still i feel..your own quote..explains your own con-fusion

<<Christian/atheism>>..ie
just another form of denial

or a way of making..the truth
<<God as the "ultimate..{logic/reason..sustaining}..reality>>..

into a deciet/deception...
miss-con/ception

via/mortal ego
supplanting the super/ego

anyhow thanks for the topic

Banjo:

Thank you for your interesting contribution to the discussion. I agree that truth and reality are separate concepts and too often are confused with each other. I think your reasoning is well worth consideration in an effort to differentiate them. This is a crucial issue largely ignored in most debates over spirituality, religion, rationality, atheism etc.

As regards Freud, I have read much of his work and believe it to be valuable to the world. Eventually however I gravitated towards Carl Jung's school of thought. Freud and Jung, though initially following the same theory and practice later parted ways over a number of things, especially a fundamental disagreement about the nature of the unconscious. Freud's concept of the superego, while useful for understanding many aspects of human development, does not help me to make sense of the experiences I mention in the article. The Jungian approach does.

OUG:
Thank you for your very extensive contributions to this thread. Forgive me if I seem ignorant or harsh, but I find it difficult to understand your writing. You may have sound reasons for using such extremely unusual syntax, but it is to me so complex that I don't have the skill to decode it. I have until now avoided responding to you because I have never been sure how to reply.

.

Dear Stephen,

.

You wrote:

"Freud's concept of the superego, while useful for understanding many aspects of human development, does not help me to make sense of the experiences I mention in the article. The Jungian approach does."

Now that you mention it, your article does bare the stamp of Yungian theory: dreams, the individual and collective unconscious, the "self" archetype representing the transcendance of opposites uniting to form a balanced psyche and personality, the indistinction of human and divine self.

Quite amusing really, seen in that light.

An exercise in style perhaps ?

.

<<Life..is/a mystery so/deep..so-profound/..so-vast,so/glorious

that it/is..a/problem..whether..any-eye*/mind/heart..
save that/of Deity,
will/ever-be capable of..penetrating..it>>

..{is/one-of..those/questions..that lead..hearts/astray}

<<For ourselves..we have-to await..its revelation>...gradual/unfolding.

Its..brilliant/dawning-beam..is/just..beginning to-touch/our-soul,
You..must..[learn/to}..feel-it,..see/it,..know..'it"..for yourself.

No one..can tell/you..what-it/is,
whence..{from}..it proceeds,..
or wither{where/by}..it..goes,..save-God/good.

Rouse..yourself..to know/Him...With/all..your-heart,
all/your-soul,..{let/logus/logic}..mind..seek/and find..living-love

{GAIN}<<..strength..reach-out..{you/are..the peace..
go}..after..{him..who's..way/is...peace

and/in-finding...{him/..alone..all-peace..{all/mercy/all-love}..,
follow/Him..who's/way..of-love..for/other...
alone/finds..[peace..with-in.]

peace/able-to..lead-you..into..the..true..light/of-Life.>>

and..him/who..is..enthroned..in-your/peace-filled/heart

then..In-this..qualification...and adaptation
to..occupy..a position-of/citizenship..in two-worlds

we can see..at/once..the..sublimity..and..dignity..of/manhood,
as/designed..and provided..for/by..the matchless/wisdom-of the/Creator.

In/this..great/achievement,..social-consciousness,
through the..agency/of..the sleep-life-communion,
bears..witness..that we-are..sons/of Good,

and/via..the/interblends..peace/love/life/mercy/grace..
that..unite/us-with heaven,..as warp..and-woof/weft/weave..

as/of/like..a..fabric/woven-together..into/one.

illumination..had..carried/that..revelation
a stage forward,..unfolding more..and more/surprises

in my/past..experience,..{life}..
until..I have/been..constrained to-say
that..“I am..scarcely/able-to..recognize..even/myself.”

But I/need-not..be-afraid,..
the woof/of..consciousness
abides..as..the/guarantor..of my..identity..{soul}

In the past..I did/my dreaming,..but now..I/am awake,
and find..available..all-the/dream-treasures..I collected
in..those..transient/nightly-visits..to..the other..astral/side.

It..was/God’s plan..
that they/should..have-been..available..for/service..in-the..lower-life,..and thus..prepare/us..for a better-entrance..into..this/life.

But..such/realised-assistance..would/have..
destroyed/any..pretence
[for..a/priestly-cult]..

and so..“the..superstition”/of..
the validity-of..dreams..had-to/go.

Such-was..the/reason..that led..to/this..corridor..of communion/being closed..“by/authority,”..

and few..there-be..that find-it..in the/present-age.

It does..still/exist,..however..for..“what-soever..the/Lord-doeth
it/shall-be..for ever,”..and/they..who-by..patient-searching..find-it,..discover..a treasure/of..incomparable value...>>

[but also...possable..destraction..
of/..THIS/present-lifes..lessons/teachings..progressions

and..yearning..in-to..futures-certainty...
are-best..achieved..[founded/grounded....here/now]

<<How differently..should..I have/been placed,..
had I-been..thus fortunate,..and yet..it lay-nigh..to my/hand,..
but..in my/blindness..I..missed-it,..passing by...on/the..other-side...>>

*SEE/how..we
even..in astral/heaven..we/shall-yet yearn

thus..in others/wisdom..we..create our..sure..found-ation..
in/this..material-realm..FIRST

<<The result/of-the..enquiry
was..not/so reassuring..as I-could..have/wished.

I had..done/something,..but
my more..mature-reflection..showed me..how-much..
I/might have-said/..that..did-not..occur to me..at/the time.

How..differently..I might/have..replied/to..her enquiry
had-I..paused to/consider..before following/the impulse-of that/illumination.

Was..I/acting..wisely..
in taking the/course..I did?

Would it/have helped...?>>

it/all helps
man/is...not/meant-to/be..alone

[at-one-meant]
one...love..{all-loving]..
[all-good/god]

<<In/my-heart..I..had an/unconquerable-yearning..to find/a love

I had-never/known,..though..I felt-sure..it existed..somewhere;

I sought/but could-not..find it>>>

you can..ONLY/find-it..WITH-in.

<<Experience..told/me...that..I was not singular..in my/quest,
nor-was..I alone..in/the..failure/to attain..my end.

Then/feeling that-touch..of nature..
that makes all/mankind..kin,

I attempted..to relieve..my own/sense
of loss..by stretching out..a helping hand/to..such
as..I might find/who were..even..more-pitiably/situated.

It may..have-been/probably was..that I..failed to/rise..to all
that was/demanded-of..me/on the occasion;..

that/I came short..of doing..all/that..the revelation/was..intended to..accomplish...

Still,..though..I had/not-scored
a victory,..I..could comfort..myself/with the..thought
that I had-not..closed my eyes,to the..vision..nor resisted..the call/
that..had been..made upon-me...

With this..I had to/be content.>>>

as we/all..must*
[only god..is/perfect]

we do..the.our..best..in/the present/living-moment

then trust god..with..the rest..
none..can-be asked..to give more..than they/have-to give

we can only be/that..god gave-us..to be
till..we finally..be-come....all
that..god planned..us to/be

[extracted..from..the gate-of/heaven]