Mac:

"I respect your right to believe, however,what some Moslems don't seem to understand is, that I have a right not to respect your religion and to simply ignore it."

Who for example?

Mac:
<<I disagree with your definition of 'Islamophobia',the term was invented to silence critics of those Islamic practices that violated human rights.The model was probably the way Zionists accuse critics of Israel of being 'anti-Semitic'.>>

One of the reasons i think Muslims are special is because they have always been prepared to debate and discuss their religion: but to do so based on facts.

I've done so on other threads, and the Qur'aan itself does so by inviting people to use reasion, to find contradiction and to reproduce something like it.

Muslims have the confidence to invite critical discussion and in fact want people to actually read the Qur'aan with a view to discussing its content. Muslims do not need to invent terms to "silence critics".

Mac you said the Qur'aan is "ramblings of desert nomads", but you haven't read the Qur'aan! Why would you say such a thing without confirming whether or not it was correct? If you are not interested in reading the Qur'aan, what right do have making such statements? Or were you simply invoking your 'right' to insult. With rights come responsibilities.

You have also said: <<I'll leave the textual analysis of the Quran to the experts,many report it as a collection of contradictory nonsense,a record of the depradations of a desert bandit and his followers and of course, vicious anti-semitism>>

Who are the "many" who report these things?

<<LOL Horus

Well put!Posted by stevenlmeyer, Saturday, 18 September 2010 1:50:40 PM>>

Yes indeed your side-kick is much too clever. He'll be leaving the nest soon. He has obviously learned much from you.

grateful.

I think we should end our dicussion we're not making any progress because of our different attitudes to religion.

Some links-

http://www.jihadwatch.org/

http://www.australianislamistmonitor.org/

http://www.faithfreedom.org/

Islamophobia is hating Muslims for no other reasons than they are Muslims.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia:

In 1997, the British Runnymede Trust defined Islamophobia as the "dread or hatred of Islam and therefore, to the fear and dislike of all Muslims," stating that it also refers to the practice of discriminating against Muslims by excluding them from the economic, social, and public life of the nation. It includes the perception that Islam has no values in common with other cultures, is inferior to the West and is a violent political ideology rather than a religion.[4] Professor Anne Sophie Roald writes that steps were taken toward official acceptance of the term in January 2001 at the "Stockholm International Forum on Combating Intolerance", where Islamophobia was recognized as a form of intolerance alongside Xenophobia and Antisemitism.[5]

Antisemitism is hating Jews for no other reasons than they are Jews.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism:

Antisemitism may be manifested in many ways, ranging from individual expressions of hatred and discrimination against individual Jews to organized violent attacks by mobs or even state, police or military attacks on entire Jewish communities. Extreme instances of persecution include the First Crusade of 1096, the expulsion from England in 1290, the Spanish Inquisition, the expulsion from Spain in 1492, the expulsion from Portugal in 1497, various pogroms, the Dreyfus Affair, and perhaps the most infamous, the Holocaust under Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany. While the term's etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, the term was coined in the late 19th century in Germany as a more scientific-sounding term for Judenhass ("Jew-hatred"),[2] and that has been its normal use since then.[3][4]

Antisemitism and Islamophobia are both contemptible forms of hatred.

Both should be rejected by all decent people.

<<grateful.

I think we should end our dicussion we're not making any progress because of our different attitudes to religion.

Some links-

http://www.jihadwatch.org/

http://www.australianislamistmonitor.org/

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Posted by mac, Sunday, 19 September 2010 9:40:41 AM>>

But wait up, Mac earlier you said:

<<I rely on books as references, rather than the Net. Most references on the Net are superficial.>>

These are WEBSITES run by extreme Zionist or fundamentalist Christians.

For a detailed response to Robert Spenser go to Danios at Loonwatch. Unfortunately some hackers have been able rig it so that you get a “security alert” when you log on to their website. It just shows you the sort of campaign that is being waged and the lengths people will go to prevent the basic facts from being known.

That’s why I say Muslims are special. Muslims have always been prepared to debate and discuss their religion, based on the facts.


Mac you claimed to have read so much on the topic, but cannot come forward with one, just ONE, scholarly source to support his statement that the Qur’aan is <<as a collection of contradictory nonsense, a record of the depradations of a desert bandit and his followers and of course, vicious anti-semitism>>.

So what was the motive for your statements? It certainly wasn't a desire for the truth.

That’s IslamoPHOBIA. A fear of telling the truth about Islam.