Houellebecq: Nevermind trying to evade the question and accountability for your remarks.

You said that women can sell their bodies for, "... protection, security, food. It's an avenue the downtrodden men don't have access to."

I ask you, would you sell your body for protection, security, food?

Would you feel ok with that being your only or perhaps most viable option for obtaining basic necessities ?

You are very naive if you think downtrodden men don't have the option; if a bloke wants to sell sexual favours there are other men who would pay. Remember that when your body is for sale, your sexual preferences are not the priority - a market is a market; as far as possible one meets the wants of the customer.

You said that the vast majority of women have other options - in Western society in the past 40 years yes, more than in the past anyway. - but not absolutely and not in non-Western societies. That explains my lack of admiration and respect for people who choose to subscribe to sex-for-sale ethos. Of course she doesn't need or seek my respect; she doesn't know me and probably never will. That doesn't matter.

JamesH: <"Sex is really about a womans power to control us blokes.">

If you choose to grovel for sex then you're choosing to hand power over yourself to someone else. That's why people like Lady Gaga (and her producer/pimps/hangers on responsible for marketing) can make large sums of money.

Women rarely need to grovel because blokes like yourself choose to be very available. If you weren't, women would have to work at obtaining sex too. Law of supply and demand.

pynchme:"Would you feel ok with that being your only or perhaps most viable option for obtaining basic necessities?"

A whole lot better than if I had no option at all.

Besides, generations of people of both sexes have sold the use of their bodies to others. From whores to soldiers to miners to ditch diggers etc, etc, etc.

Who is worse off, the whore who may get a fatal dose of syphilis or the labourer who may get a fatal melanoma, or the soldier who faces obvious health hazards(as well as complete loss of autonomy). What was the occupational death rate in th sex industry last year? The construction industry?

Your problem is that you see the vagina as "special" compared to all the other bodily parts, since you know it is the source of a woman's power as the entrance to the uterus. Where you go wrong is that whores know that too, but they're more pragmatic about the nature of that power and they are prepared to exercise it with no more strings than prompt and full paymnent, whereas you demand complicated mutual obligations based on some weirdo religiously-inspired morality. Are you sure you're not MTR?

You sound quite approving of homosexual prostitution, which is quite revealing. Would you be happier of female prostitutes were to quarantine the vagina from the activities?

Typical feminist? More your typical wowser looking for a bandwagon I'd say.

Pynchme

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JamesH: <"Sex is really about a womans power to control us blokes.">

If you choose to grovel for sex then you're choosing to hand power over yourself to someone else. That's why people like Lady Gaga (and her producer/pimps/hangers on responsible for marketing) can make large sums of money.

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Haaaaaar, haaaaaar, haaaaar!

Well said.

pynchme you're in lala land or extremely desperate to defend your point.

If you think the market for male prostitutes is anywhere near the market for females you have a screw loose. Gay guys can get sex whenever they want. Chicks are only now starting to pay for it but there's a lot of competition for those jobs!

I'm sure in your world any prostitute is doing it because they have to, but there are more than a few who would just rather screw their way to a house deposit rather than working away as an accounts clerk. It's probably a smart move for a while, but trouble is once they're hooked on the 'easy' money it's hard to give up, and they are exposed to some disgusting blokes and drugs and a world of sadness.

'Would you feel ok with that being your only or perhaps most viable option for obtaining basic necessities ?'
As septic said, 'A whole lot better than if I had no option at all.'

Which was my original point.

'evade the question and accountability for your remarks.'
How could anyone know what they would do for money if they were really desperate. I'm sure if it meant life or death anyone would rent out their anus. It's a non-issue.

And 'accountability for your remarks'? WTF is that all about? Man your true feministing colours are shining!

James,

I agree with the lala girl..

'If you choose to grovel for sex then you're choosing to hand power over yourself to someone else.'

I have a few times refused sex offered by women, due to personal rules about not screwing house mates, having a girlfriend, thinking the chick was a fruit loop. You should have seen some of the reactions. Absolutely Gob-smacked! One chick just couldn't believe I was serious and got really nasty. One fairly nice looking slim chick I refused to shag because she'd been an obnoxious bitch all night started crying and yelling at me accusing me of thinking she was fat.

If more men did it they'd feel a lot more powerful.

Antiseptic: <"Your problem is that you see the vagina as "special" compared to all the other bodily parts">

No, you do. What makes your butt or dangly bits or mouth any more special than a vagina ? If prostitution is so highly recommended why aren't you out there peddling your services ?

Houellebecq: <"How could anyone know what they would do for money if they were really desperate. I'm sure if it meant life or death anyone would rent out their anus. It's a non-issue.">

Exactly - selling sex is often a matter of desperation more than choice from a range of viable options. Not for all, of course. The point is that there is no reason why you can't exercise the same choice.

If it's such an easy way towards a house deposit then more men would be doing the same.

Houellebecq: <"As septic said, 'A whole lot better than if I had no option at all.">

That's the point. You DO have the option and men have always had the same option. If it's such a desirable one that you'd recommend for someone else - no reason to be envious of women - just trot yourself out along one Sydney street or another and make your fortune one head job at a time.

Houellebecq: <"If more men did it they'd feel a lot more powerful.">

Absolutely. No reason for blokes to behave like they're victims of their libido PLUS it can inspire some very gratifying responses in women who hold to stereotypes about men as sex starved imbeciles.

Yep, thank you runner.

As you fail to acknowledge but any may determine, what you call "absolutes" need not be, but can be confirmed to any desired extent by analysis.

You may use the epithet "moral relativism" but what you really don't like is the fact that analysis can determine something just as good as alleged "absolutes" in short order. Since you are dedicated to stagnation, you really don't grasp this.

Your book doesn't tell us anything of value we can't work out for ourselves, and neither can you.

Rusty