Great letter rexw

JP......"nothing can be justified if atheism is correct."

Could you please explain that for me. Are you saying that because I don't believe in some supernatural being that I have no ethical boundaries ?

JP how then do you explain the continuing horror story of christian his-story prior to the the 20th century.

Or even the fact that CHRISTIAN Europe gave the entire world, World Wars I & II---Yes Europe was STILL very much "christian" then.

What about the protestant versus "catholic" religious wars in post-"reformation" Europe--millions were slaughtered and much of Europe was ruined

All of the never-ending slaughters and imperial conquests done in the name of "god".

The African slave trade conducted by European "christians"--the institutional churches were key players--A "papal bull" even "authorized" it.

How many Africans were thus enslaved and/or murdered?

The estimates vary from 25 to 50 million!

Onwards "christian" soldiers forever marching into war.

This reference gives the unvarnished truth re christian his-story

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/cruelty.html

And why not Google The Criminal History of the Papacy by Tony Bushby--a well researched book.

So much for "holy" apostolic succession and the "vicar of christ".

Oh, that old canard, JP.

>>In a materialist/atheistic universe, the person who has an abortion does not have to justify their behaviour but neither does the rapist, the paedophile, the torturer, or anybody else.<<

It is highly significant that the only people you will ever here saying such tripe as this, turn out to be "people of faith".

On the other hand, people who are able to live their lives without having to imagine an authority figure that tells them what to do, can easily distinguish between rape, paedophilia, torture etc., and the right to make carefully considered choices that can cause harm to no-one but themselves.

It is important to clearly understand that last part, JP.

Everyone has to be able to justify their actions to themselves. It is the basis of morality. Failing this simple test is why paedophile priests are indistinguishable from paedophile non-priests. They both fell at the same moral hurdle. No deity was involved, in either case.

The author here is explaining to you why she acted as she did, and having done so, does not need to justify it to anyone else.

Why should this concern you?

Why should this concern you?

I think that's pretty obvious pericles. He sees the embrio as a person, who has been murdered. He's sticking up for the rights of what he sees as a person.

I don't happen to agree, but the stance is understandable.

For sure Snake, as an atheist you can set whatever ethical boundaries you like – but justifying those boundaries is the hard part.

For example, as an atheist you can state that rape is wrong. But the rapist can ask: “Why is rape wrong: just because you say so? Who are you to tell me what is right and wrong?”

And there lies the issue: if atheism is true, then morally it is every person for themself. We are all free, because there is no one – no creator - to give account to, but equally we are also totally vulnerable.

Of course you can try to fall back on using laws to try and protect yourself, but what ultimate justification can laws have in an atheistic universe? Some would argue that if the laws represent what most people want that justifies them. But who has the authority to be able to say that a simple majority makes something “right”?

Indeed, if most people agreed that slavery was legitimate would you go along with that? Or if most people said that abortion was wrong would that make it wrong?

Logically, if atheism is correct, the only rational functional moral basis is that of, might makes right.

Pericles, you state, “people who are able to live their lives without having to imagine an authority figure that tells them what to do, can easily distinguish between rape, paedophilia, torture etc., and the right to make carefully considered choices that can cause harm to no-one but themselves”.

But why should the rapist, etc listen to what you have to say? You might not like harming other people , but who are you to say what other people should do