foxy,

Helfire aside from his 'anti' stance raises a good question "what constitutes appropriate experience for a PM?"

In many ways Rudd is better experienced but in practice? Sure he isn't as much of ideologue as the perhaps Australian's arguably worst/backward looking (a function of dogma instead real life experience) PM. His view encouraged division and suffered inevitably from his own overused diagnosis "hubris" in "*his* legacy".

Interestingly Leigh is IMO correct that Howard didn't lose government on 'work choices' per se, but rather it was a symptom of a greater malaise, he and his whole government had lost the plot.They were ruling. (1st Lord Acton's dictum comes to mind.)

Rudd needs to be careful he doesn't over play the ETS, lest it becomes his 'work choices'.

Having said that Spindoc's literal reading of the BBC headlines re the gaining scepticism in UK to AGW is more wishful thinking and media hyperbole than drama and as relevant. It's still in the 75% range of believers.

The old expression Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them. Will probably hold here firstly because labor hasn't lost it yet. Secondly it hasn't done anything noteworthy yet either.

However, if the Libs were in power now they would lose it anyway.
Largely because we are looking at the ossified past courtesy of the jump started political dead front bench, save the odd popularist lunatic or fanged fringe dweller. Now they're fiddling with the label indicating a lurch right to feral conservatism.

This raised the obvious cynicism our choice is between flashing neonlights that say and do nothing V a 1980's living dead preview with old hat not-so-special effects
Viva King Belly preferably with clothes, "princess" foxy and her frog.

Yes pelican,

Those on lower incomes (hospitality, retail and unskilled labour) were not in a position to negtiate fairer working conditions and in fact were worse off under WC.

Meanwhile, brickies, chippies, sparkies, plumbers, concreters, plasterers, painters, in fact, most traddies thrived.

Consultants, advisors, lawyers, doctors, accountants all thrived.

In fact, almost anyone with skills to offer had several jobs to choose from and as such were not worse off under WC.

The fact that the low skilled were worse off was a small price to pay for a booming ecconomy don't you think! Esspecially given the level of support available for one with poor skills to better themselves. Opportunities very few took advantage of.

Rapscallion
But I really think this line sums it up perfectly

>>> Liberal and Labor loyalists alike should be able to see that the infinitely bland, and false, Kevin07 will survive at least until 2013.

The word 'survive' being the worrying factor here!

Well at least I have a memory long enough to recall that even Howard was looking like a one-termer at this stage of his first term.

There were hoards of people bleating about losing their guns and "disarming the population" plus the after-effects of the massive cuts to services inflicted on all the vulnerable parts of the community.

He only survived because of the relative disorganisation of the Opposition, his significant majority buffer and clever electioneering by constantly referring to the deficit.

I think Beazley actually won more primary votes than Howard but these were in the seats he already held.

Rudd will probably go the same way. If he can get the message of the handling of Global Financial Crisis (which most still ignore) out there more effectively and let grandstanding clowns like Barnaby Joyce loose on the community he should survive.

Abbott will be spending much of his time explaining away both his own stumbles plus those of his inept front bench over the coming months rather than coming up with any real policies.

Of course Workchoices was the main reason for Howard's loss. Despite the hopeful denial of some posters, the polls all pointed to this as the main factor for the scale of the loss.

If you believe otherwise, you could really do Rudd a big favor by actively campaigning for their return.

"Learn from your parents mistake
Use birth control!"
Advise from a Granny, yeah right ..
Stupidity is not a crime, you're free to go..
Foxy,
Why is when people are at a loss to come back with constructive criticism that they think ridicule is a clever tactic. By all means if you're so hell-bent to prove my points wrong then at least put up an argument. If you can't then ask someone on your own level which appears to be the norm for Labor voters. When I rile people it is not to get some queer personal satisfaction, it's with the faint hope that the reader takes a step back & actually dissects my statements & then thinks of what my points are rather then just look at the poster's name & instantly put up a barrier. You may be old enough to have grandchildren but anyone can let nature take its course. Many people are seen as successful because they make money but are they really ? Many write & sound very articulate but do they actually exercise wisdom ? Most large company managers keep talking up growth despite the fact & more than surplus evidence shows that growth is killing the planet. How good a manager do you have to be to keep advocating growth. I only hope that very soon a smart operator will discover a tactic to turn plain sustainability into profitable practice.
I'm certain it can be done as soon as sense yanks the power away from stupidity i.e. greed. I can sense a lot of retired Public Servants taking part here on OLO & they invariably clash with those who create the wealth of which the Public Servants live. How many academics can you list that are not on the public payroll & make their contribution to society via their own competence in business ? Are they articulate enough to employ people themselves rather that rely heavily on Government funding ? Yes our present Prime Minister is articulate but he's unable to use his one expertise to turn around the rot that is bureaucracy.

Hi Wobbles,
You may be correct about one thing and that is that workchoices was partly the reason Howard lost the last election. However thanfully workchoices is dead and gone and will not be ressurected.
The ETS will most probably be KRUDD's workchoices because it will accomplish nothing and only severly impact to our detriment on our standard of living. Double our electricity cost and add at least 10% to the cost of our fuel bill. CO2 has been prooven beyound doubt to not be the cause of climate change. Have a look at the following website
www.climatesceptics.com.au
As far a politics go I do not like either of our two major political parties and the main minor party is a one issue party joinded at the hip to the ALP in the past. In the future who knows. I would be for a system where party politics did not exist and a government was formed being all inclusively by all members of parliament elected as independents. This would put an end to the low standard of debate and the pointscoring against eachother of the main players. Probably way to idealistic but would be a better representation of the electorate
views on issues as all politicians would not be restricted by a party line on issues. But as this is not to be at present Tony Abbott seems to be the best option as future PM purely for the fact that he opposes the new ETS Tax.

rehctub
I am not sure what your point is as your comments only go to support mine.

Tradies were by and large not employed under AWAs, many are also small business owners and run their own show. Some on building contracted sites were on AWAs I believe but enjoyed higher wages because their skills are in demand. Tradies have enjoyed higher wages in the past few years because of supply and demand factors. Mining workers enjoyed the same hike in pay because of demand for labour and high export demand.

They are not low income earners.

As I have repeatedley said, AWAs were highly damaging in those sectors mentioned previously.