oops Sorry David was in to much of a hurry to twist the knife a little and made the following error in my last comment!

'Both teachings of course are consistant with the lessons of the Sermon and should confirm to you the Israeli's actions are running counter to your as yet unabandoned and inconsistant awoved desire to 'ethnic cleanse' Gaza and the Holy Lands.'

This should have read:

Both teachings of course are consistant with the lessons of the Sermon and should confirm to you that the Israeli's actions are running counter to your beliefs and that your as yet unabandoned, inconsistant awoved desire to 'ethnic cleanse' Gaza and the Holy Lands is still out of line with Christian practise.

To Mr Strewth.

I am not “coy” about anything. I simply pointed out that you are hardly noted for your friendly attitudes to Jews. Your constant implication is that the entire Israeli nation are a thieving bunch of murdering scoundrels. That sure sounds like racism to me. And I therefore find your anti racist superior attitude towards me to be nothing but a feigned pose.

To answer your second question again, I would concede that “Palestinians” do have a genuine beef. But since the Palestinians were going to drive out the Jews if they had won their war in 1948, they can hardly complain if they lost the war, and the Jews returned the complement to them. In addition, the behaviour of “Palestinians” in the past forty years, including the mass murder of Olympians and the hijacking of Western airliners, has been so bad that I do not have the slightest sympathy for them. “Palestinians”, most of whom were born in Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, or Syria, have become such a threat to the Western air travellers, that most people now think that “Palestinian” and “Terrorist” is just one word.

Your analysis of question 3 is specious. Democracies can only work if there is a fundamental agreement by all of a nations demographic groups as to what exactly constitutes correct behaviour. Any society divided between two or more groups whose cultural values are diametrically opposed, is doomed to endless internal strife. That is exactly the situation that Israel is in. Either the Jews run Israel/Palestine with Jewish cultural values being the basis for the nations laws, or the Muslims run it with Sharia law being the cultural basis for the law. It can’t be both. The only alternative is separatism with the stronger side expelling the losers. That is exactly what happened, and the only reason why the Muslims are sore about that is because they were the ones who lost.

The only reason why Australia is different is because the dominant culture is North European and many immigrants accept that. .

Loved Bamboozled's bit about "peeking at that book". I'm prepared to believe that he reads the Bible, and is valiantly struggling to understand it. I believe his Star Wars DVD is worn to a frazzle. I do not, however, believe he's "peeked at that book" - or any other.

Now, logic, you too need to do some solid reading (as in BOOKS) about Jewish Arabs, also collateral damage of the Zionist project. Arthur Neslen's 'Occupied Minds: A Journey Through the Israeli Psyche' has a heartbreaking interview with Yemeni Rabbi Shlomo Korah which touches on the circumstances in which his community made aliyah (no suggestion whatever of ethnic cleansing); how his family's 700 year old collection of Jewish manuscripts was stolen by Israeli authorities; how their money was stolen by the Jewish Agency; how their children were stolen and adopted out to Ashkenazi families; and how they feel that they are now in exile in Israel and long to return to Yemen. Then there's CIA man, Wilbur Crane Eveland's account in 'Ropes of Sand' of the covert Zionist bombing campaign in Baghdad which led to the - ahem - emigration of Iraqi Jews. You should also read about the Lavon affair in relation to covert Zionist shenanigans in Egypt. David Hirst's 'The Gun & the Olive Branch' contains an excellent account of what happened to Iraq's Jews and the Lavon affair. Happy reading.

Keith
.. 'heaping coals' is in fact from Romans 12:20 and are words of Paul, but directly connected to those of our Lord Jesus. Apologies

The point I make about ethnically cleansing Gaza, is not a Biblical one. Its a common sense one. I fully realize that on the surface it seems cruel. But if people are given an alternative place of safety and prosperity, then, how is this a bad thing ? Its no worse than the compulsory acquisition of our own property by government for the public good. The Babylonian king had a policy of dispersing his conquered peoples within the Empire. It actually worked. When Ezra and Nehemiah called them back to Jerusalem after Cyrus the Persian took over Babylon, they(jews) had to be dragged kicking and screaming back from their newly established lives.

Arguments such as the 'connection with the history and land' don't wash with governments who have the greater public good in mind, so I also don't see them as relevant.

One problem we have in associating a 'Christian' approach to this problem is that the Israeli's are not Christian. So, we cannot speak to them about 'Jesus said'...therefore you should... kind of thing.

A truly Christian approach does not involve matters of state policy, except that Rulers are recognized as being 'From God' in the sense that they maintain public order. (Romans 13)

The most we (Christians) can do, is speak prophetically, about issues of Justice etc. The problem then becomes 'which' injustice do we speak against ? In reality, we can address all of it, on both sides.
But one man's injustice (compulsory acquisition of land) is another mans 'Promotion of the public good'

If we apply "Do for others as you would have them do for you"
This of course is again 'Christian' rather than Judaistic or Islamic.

Jews still live in the shadow of the Military/Political/Economic "Son of David" type Messiah. Muslims follow militant Mohamed's example.

STREWN...I looked at the synopsis only. I've read most of that stuff in other material such as the documentary hypothesis/form criticism liberal theological works.

Red, Sounding like racism to you doesn't logically make it so. You're obviously quite confused as to the difference between Judaism/Jews and ploitical Zionism/Zionists. Do I need to explain this? You are indeed most coy about Q1, but I think I know the answer. Israelis get that special dispensation because you see them as whites kicking brown butts, right?
Paragraph 2: If Palestinians do have 'a genuine beef' as you've admitted, then logically it needs a remedy. What do you propose? As for Palestinians intending to "drive out the Jews if they had won the war in 1948", you've turned the historical record on its head. Could I suggest you cease your ignorant flow of baseless assertions long enough to read (yes, BOOKS!) some of the most recent scholarship on this issue, say Israeli historian Benny Morris' 'The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited' for example, or 'The Palestinian Catastrophe' by Michael Palumbo. With regard to Palestinian "behaviour" over the years, some of this may not in hindsight have helped their cause, especially given the western media's tendency to report only Israel's side of the story. Yet I'm sure you regret not having had the benefit of hindsight on many an occasion? Two points: a) The Israelis, by dispossessing and occupying the Palestinians, set themselves up for resistance and therefore bear primary responsibility for all acts of violence in and around 'their' patch. It's a phenomenon known as blowback. If the Israelis/you don't like it, then the Israelis/you need to do something about the Palestinian's "genuine beef", and not continue on with their/your winner-take-all bullying; b) To pretend as you do that there is some kind of parity here between the world's 4th most powerful army, backed to the hilt by the US, and a lightly armed guerilla force, and to ignore the fact that Israel's overwhelming monopoly on power is being directed against a largely defenceless people is the height of hypocrisy. Palestinians in Arab countries? Isn't it obvious to ask why they are there? Should they be there? Why aren't they in Palestine? Obviously, not to you.

Strewth

I am not only talking about Jewish Arabs but also about the other Jews from the middle east. In fact I know some of them and their views do not correspond with the views you expressed. Reports and books do not constitute a reasoned arguement inless it can be shown that the authors hade a good knowledge of the subject and are not biased. And we are not talking about Jews or Zionists but of people who live in Israel and probably have been born there.

BOAZ_David

Rabbi Hillel who lived before Jesus and was the dominant Rabbi in Jerusalem summarised Jewish laws as follows:
Anything which is hateful to you you should not do to your neighbour.

Also the statement "Love thy neighbour as thyself" comes from the Old Testament. Jesus was a Jew, you should learn something about Judaism before you comment on it.

If only the suicide bombers had followed that philosophy.