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The Forum > Article Comments > Progressives and feminists have been led astray on the question of the burqa > Comments

Progressives and feminists have been led astray on the question of the burqa : Comments

By Andrew Glover, published 13/10/2014

Capitalism celebrates individuals as independent creators of self-identity through the way we choose to conduct ourselves, the things we choose to buy, and particularly in the way we choose to dress.

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"Yes, we can be in solidarity with women who 'choose' to wear it. But in doing so, we shouldn't legitimise the subculture that puts them in a position of having to make that choice in the first place."

So how do you do that, Andrew? How do you "be in solidarity with women who 'choose' to wear it" and at the same time not "legitimise the subculture etc."

And why the inverted commas around 'choose'? Are you suggesting that they aren't really choosing it? (In that case, how do we know that you really 'choose' to make your argument'?)

I think you are on the horns of a dilemma. If what you were implying were true, and they women are wearing it because their freedom to choose had been overborne in some way by coercion, that is already illegal.

And if not, then it's a choice in the real sense of the terms, isn't it, and none of your business?
Posted by Jardine K. Jardine, Monday, 13 October 2014 8:34:13 AM
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"because their freedom to choose had been overborne in some way by coercion, that is already illegal"

It is ? So if I, as a guy, choose to wear a g-string only to the theatre and they kick me out, that's illegal ? I think not... We have to conform to societal norms, anything else is mostly illegal. Think not ? Walk starkers along Bondi, enjoying the caress of the sun on your skin and see what becomes of you.

The authors right but any change has to come from within, from exposure of these women to their western "sisters".

I also don't think there will be much actual success, after all critical thinking and religion are about as divergent as you can get. You already have them "believing" in mystical beings in the sky, an affront in the first place. I would think correcting that collective madness is more important then convincing them that their neighbour seeing their face will send them to a non existent hell in the first place.
Posted by Valley Guy, Monday, 13 October 2014 9:13:45 AM
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I think we should start by ignoring the "progressives & feminists" grouped together
as they have lost all credibility in recent times.
As far as the "Darleks" go well I find it objectional. It is just a cultural thing
as the face when meeting someone is so very important.
Yet, we are happy to talk to someone on the telephone, hmm.

Saw something funny once, a toddler walked away with the wrong Darlek.
His mother got in a panic and had to chase after the other woman to stop
him following the wrong Darlek.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 13 October 2014 10:21:14 AM
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"However 'choices', construed as such, aren't made in a vacuum."

Yes indeed, particularly if those 'choices' are made within the context of an authoritarian, misogynistic culture, it's very informative to read comments by 'feminist' Muslim women on the issue.

"Another possibility is that progressives and feminists are happy for women to 'Destroy The Joint' on our own cultural turf, but simply lack the conviction to argue their case against practices that originate from outside the West."

Perhaps they also lack the backbone, it's so very easy to place the race card and claim "it's just another case of white men telling brown men how to treat brown women", when the issue is universal human rights, not race, religion or culture. It's not clear whether 'progressives and feminists have been lead astray' or they have painted themselves into a corner because of the current "left" obsession with race and Western colonialism. Conservative critics have simply filled the void left by the Left's negligence.

"It's time that progressives and feminists rediscover their core principles on the issue of the veil." It's long overdue, however it's doubtful whether the Left, such as it is these days, has the will.

The article is an informative and concise summary of the underlying issues.
Posted by mac, Monday, 13 October 2014 10:24:27 AM
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I have a number of issues with this topic.
The notion of universal human rights is one. Who says there are such things as universal human rights, and under what universal authority do they say it?
Fair scrutiny of individuals in public places is another. When going thru the scanner in any airport in the world, if I have forgotten to remove my hat, I am told to do so. How much more might a full face veil conceal? Would I be allowed to keep my hat on when entering the Parliament building in Canberra?
Fair identification is another issue. In France it was reported that some students were sitting other students' exams from behind the veil.
And finally I think of the men. We are used to hearing about how the women living under the veil are marginalised and made lesser by the wearing. But how about those sad silly men who go through live worried about some other bloke seeing "their" women's faces? I recently shared an elevator in KL with one man and four women. From what I could observe without being too obtrusive, the women were amused and the bloke was just short of panic. Silly bugger. Let them take it off. You would feel emancipated by not making others conform to your will, gods be buggered.
Posted by halduell, Monday, 13 October 2014 10:40:21 AM
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progressive/feminist have a lot in common with Islam. They are both totalitarian in ideology. Thankfully more and more are seeing through their ideology that destroys families and life in order to fulfil their selfish ambition. I am especially heartened that many young women can now see the rotton fruit of the likes of Emily's list etc.
Posted by runner, Monday, 13 October 2014 10:59:58 AM
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