It was sad to hear of the deaths of two elderly gentlemen in a plane crash near Gympie Queensland.

"The pilots were an 80-year-old Caboolture man and a 77-year-old Glenwood man. Police Inspector Brad Inskip said the two men were in two separate aircraft — a glider and ultralight. "We will be looking into the possibility that there was a collision mid-air."

From all reports this tragedy was down to pilot error, and could have easily been avoided. Both pilots were very experienced, what may be of concern is their mental and physical capacity due to old age.

The question is should old people holding licences such as car, boat, aircraft, gun etc be more carefully scrutinised as to their mental and physical capacity to engage in certain dangerous activities. Should society do more to protect old people from themselves? That is a fair question.

Dear Paul,

I remember when mum was having eyesight problems but her
drivers licence was being automatically renewed. Her
eye specialist warned us about mum's driving - but she
simply refused to listen. Telling us she was fine - despite
her insurance being outrageously high due to accidents she
kept having. Mum was in denial. Finally after another accident
where she ploughed into her doctor's front fence - I said that's
it. I'm going to report you to the police.

We ended up stepping in and getting rid of her car. We had no
choice. Luckily her accidents didn't hurt anyone physically.
Any how - yes - old people should be tested regularly and not
just given licences automatically. It can end in tragedy.

At 92 I gave up driving. Marie was in rehab, and I used to drive to see her. I felt good every time I managed to make the trip without accident. Finally a social agency arranged transport for me, and that was the end of driving. I miss driving very much.

It is not just protecting me from myself. If I had kept driving I would have been a danger to others. The greatest and possibly most rewarding journeys are those of the mind.

Don't you have required medical examinations for older drivers in Victoria Foxy? In Queensland we are required to gave one every year, including eyesight tests every year after age 75. Perhaps we need to be stricter on doctors, & make sure they are tot granting medical approval to the incompetent.

Personally I am more worried about the thousands of druggies & drink drivers on the road than the oldies, but it is of no importance why someone is incompetent to drive, no incompetent people should be on the road.

From the numbers caught driving while their licenses are suspended or canceled we need to be much more worried about substance abuse drivers, & the policing of them, than aged drivers.

Paul: Age may have been a factor in this crash. Still, it would be useful to have some data on the relative ages of the pilots in other mid-air collisions before making assumptions.

Foxy: In NSW drivers need to get an optical and medical report annually from the age of 75 to retain their licence. From age 85 a driving test is required as well.

Protect old people from themselves, or other people from them? This bloke isn't interested in old people: he hates them. He is always banging on about 'old farts', even though he must be knocking on himself.

I should have explained that mum did have eye-examinations
every six months (from memory). And it was only in the last
months that her eye-specialist began to get worried - although
he didn't take a stand until the last minute - and she kept
on driving until we took the car away from her. Her condition
by that time wasn't good. Her mind started to go as well.
That's when we moved her from a retirement village to a
nursing home. It was a very difficult time all round.

Regarding the scourge of "OLD" drivers loose in your town, see this COMMUNITY WARNING:

http://youtu.be/-aVIR6ftdrw?t=1m

See, told ya, be VERY AFRAID!!

Wrong question for a start, The question should be to protect society from incompetent people.
Old age is not automatically making people a danger to themselves nor is youth an automatic guarantee to perform flawlessly !
Centrelink's Robodebt is an example how throwing everything into the same basket can ruin peoples' lives.
Cases need to be individually assessed & if some uncaring bureaudroids can't do that they should be made to look for another job.
Stop blaming people in need for your own shortcomings in the performance of your duties !

Such hostility ttbn, now that's not like you. As I have pointed out before my definition of an 'Old Fart' has nothing to do with age, a person could be a dynamic forward thinker with a progressive attitude at the age of 90, and certainly not qualify as an 'Old Fart'. Then there are the social regressive, stick in the mud types, who at the age of say 19 can be put in the 'Old Fart' basket. Its easy to see where a bloke like you fits, regardless of your age.

On the topic, just as we don't allow those under the age of 16, who due to their limited mental capacity, not to hold a car drivers and other licences for theirs and others safety, would it be a good idea to apply the same rule at the upper end of the scale. At the age of 80 should society withhold all licences (excluding a dog licence, for a very small dog, no rottweiler's) from the elderly for theirs and others protection. No driving, no boating, no flying, and certainly no shooting, in this way we could all feel a little bit safer from danger. Any thoughts?

Any thoughts?
Paul1405,
Yes, plenty ! For a start there's no limit for young age below 16. There are many -16 year old success examples & many, more stories of failure just as in old age.
Individual plusses/negatives should not be allowed to discriminate against others & vice versa.
A Civilian Service would enable the kick-off to a better mentality than what is presently the norm.
There simply is getting away from the blatant & proven fact that our society is under the yoke of very inferior mentality ! The sooner people agree to tackle this problem the better !
Old people have the wisdom that the young disregard to their own detriment as we can see all around. If or rather when I get to old to drive I will stop but will also expect a far more user friendly service system for old people than there is presently in place ! Old people can offer the young to become better, more logical thinkers which of course is beneficial to all if accepted.

"Any thoughts".

Paul 1405 is not interested in anyone's thoughts. He has his mind made up. If he was honest he would have made a statement 'Society Should Protect Old People From Themselves'. Better still, 'Society Should Be Protected FROM Old People'.

Nor does he care about the safety of old people. He doesn't like old people. He joined the young and silly Greens to kid himself that he could ward off his own advancing years - he must be at least 70 himself by now.

In my 80th. year, I have had to have a GP's annual OK to drive for the past 10 years. In another 5 years, I will have to have an actual driving test, if I want to continue driving on the same roads as 16 year old hoons and the increasing number of drunk drivers.

We are not all idiots just because we are old. I no longer drive at night. My decision, nobody else's. I wouldn't dream of driving in the CBD. I rarely drive long distances, and never do more than 2 hour stints at a time.

I am not as sure of myself as I once was, and I will probably stop driving altogether before any busybody, nasty bloody ageist like Paul 1405 gets on my case.

In the meantime, the people who put the wind up me on the roads are YOUNG, particularly females.

There's all sorts of idiots on our roads. We all know that
and most of us have experienced it as well. However, I am
concerned about elderly drivers. When mum was losing it -
it was difficult - and we had to step in and take over
to prevent her from not only hurting herself - but other
people as well. It was a decision that just had to be made
for all concerned. I'm not saying that all elderly people
are like that - but when someone is clearly not functioning
as they should - someone has to step in - be it family,
health professionals, or the government.

I think annual testing is important.

My father was required to undergo a driving test in order to maintain his licence (NSW) and I was confident he'd fail thus alleviating me of the need to force him to give it up.

However, due to the WuFlu hysteria, driving assessments were suspended because of the social distancing mania. So he was able to renew his licence even though his doctor was equivocal. Which meant I needed to step in since his dementia was becoming problematic.

Luckily he had a minor accident when he nudged a brick wall and the car needed some repairs. I told him they couldn't get the parts because it was a Korean car and managed to keep him off the road for 3 months.

By the time his car was 'available' again, he'd found that doing without it wasn't such a hardship and getting him to surrender the keys was fairly simple.

Should 'society' intervene? No. I don't trust 'society' to do the best for the individual - 'society' will do what it considers to be the best for society without taking note of the individual.

Should the family, loved ones, significant friends, step in? Absolutely. I know a 95 yr old who is as competent a driver as anyone else on the road, although I suspect 'society' wouldn't make that allowance. My father, suffering dementia and Alzheimer's, was a danger to himself and others. But the family stepped up.

mhaze,

Well done. We did the same with mum.

It wasn't easy - but we managed to work through it
as you did.

If you want driving tests, lets go whole hog, & test every one every say 5 years. There are many licenses issued on the assumption that a doubtfully competent driver will im,prove with experience, so lets retest new drivers after 12 months to see if this happens.

A suitable test would be to show the ability to lap a race track at say 15% slower than a competent driver in the drivers own car, not a race driver, but a competent test driver. Anyone who can not handle their car at moderate speeds should not be on the public roads.

This followed by a motorkhana type test of low speed outmaneuvering, forward & in reverse.

How about a challenge Paul, a few laps of Lakeside, it's up your way. Wouldn't want you driving fast on the public road now would we. If you can get to with in 4 seconds of this 82 year old, we'll let you keep your licence.

Hasbeen,
Good ideas,, but you’d put a strain on public transport!
————————-
I have a medical assessment every 12 months and a driving test every 2 years. (NSW)
The driving test is a joke (an exercise for politicians to be seen to be doing something) as it is confined to driving around town, observing the road rules and staying under the speed limits.
No high speed driving, handling under emergency braking, driving in wet conditions etc., nothing that would test a persons abilities.
And there is no test of reaction times and some young people have woeful reaction times.

What Paul is not realising is that he wants to make one glove fit all, exactly how the show's been running society into a useless huddle since the big Goaf !
He wants the opposite of what he's proposing but doesn't think far enough ahead & doesn't want others who can think far enough ahead to do so either !
Another thing is that city people are at far greater risk of causing an accident in which others get hurt whereas country folks in general only hurt themselves. We shake our heads in utter disbelief how southern tourists tear through Cape York & leaving a mess on & beside the roads & a few times a year a few don't make it home alive. None of the hoodlums are in their later years.

Hassy, I understand you were a rev head petrol sniffer in your younger days. There has never been a more useless time wasting pursuit than car racing, with the possible exception of the gun nuts and their call to shoot everything in sight. Issy supports a political party that believes five year old's should take loaded guns to school for self protection. Issy that medical assessment, I hope it included a physiological assessment as loaded guns in the hands of five year old, well what can I say, crazy in the extreme.

Indy, aren't you guy who wants to stick ALL young folk into some sort of "boot camp"? One size fits all!

Indy, aren't you guy who wants to stick ALL young folk into some sort of "boot camp"? One size fits all!
paul1405,
There you go again with your conniving misconstruing . I specifically stated all "young unemployed" on more occasion than I care to remember ! When I state about improving poor mentality I specifically draw attention to you et al !

Indy, trying to back out, you made it clear you favoured national service for young people, you never added a rider that it should only involve the 8% of unemployed young people.

I quote you in reference to young people and national service;

"We have to move towards a National service scheme to re-introduce common sense & sense of responsibility & respect!"

Where are you referring to the minority of young unemployed in that statement. You are not, its a blanket statement.

Some recent news headlines, just here in Queensland.

"Elderly man dies after car crashes into tree"
"Elderly man crashes into pole"
"Elderly man hospitalised after car mounts parked car"
"Elderly man dies on northern Gold Coast after incident with 4WD"
"Elderly man kills cyclist"
"Elderly man runs down wife in driveway"

Just in the last day or two;

"Elderly man crashes into house"
"Elderly man kills pedestrian"

85 year old ex-father-in-law, bangs into shopping trolley at Westfield shopping centre! Extensive damage to front of car, so said grandson, thankfully it was a trolley and not a child. And this guy was driving until recently.

Despite what might be reported by the manipulative media, government statistics reveal that YOUNG ADULTS are involved in more motor accidents than ANY other age group. Paul 1405's lack of knowledge and his bitter dislike of certain people continue to make him look silly.

Though the brain may be done growing in size by the teen years, it’s not done developing and maturing. The prefrontal cortex, which is responsible for skills like planning, prioritization, and impulse control, may not finish developing until the mid- to late-20s.

Paul1405,
You forgot that a couple who became elderly are responsible for the mistake of bringing you into into our World !

you never added a rider that it should only involve the 8% of unemployed young people.
Paul1405,
You'd better read my posts on the subject again ! You're misinforming AGAIN !

Aviation has some of the best checks and balances out there.
Medicals are conducted yearly for all pilots. This includes medical and mental assessments.
For Commercial aviation the checks are more rigorous.
For the two gentlemen involved in the incident their age is irrelevant, they would have been certified fit to fly and would have the experience to self regulate their fitness to fly.
As a commercial pilot with 30+ years and many thousands of hours in my logbook I can say aviation is a risky business whether one is young or old, experienced or inexperienced. I have had my moments and become a member of the "oh s##t" club on a few occasions.
The incidents I went through were in no way related to my age or experience. In aviation sometimes the odds and circumstance stack up against you sometimes with ultimate consequence.
Pilots accept that and manage as best we can.

Forgotten were many other things that could be considered dangerous for older folk, such as chain saws, hatchets, axes, chisels, screwdrivers, sharp knives, forks, drinking glasses, motorised wheel chairs, pedal cycles (both bi and tri) the list could go on of the things that could be construed to be dangerous for the old.
Let’s not forget electricity and flammable liquids and matches/lighters.

Cognitive impairment in older adults is common in Australia. There is no reason a person incapable of driving at night, or in the CBD of their local village and can't drive any further than the two clicks to the local God's Waiting Room without a nanny nap, why allow these dangers on the roads at any time.

News flash ttbn there are 20 times more drives under 20 than over 80, maybe they might have more accidents than you old folk. That's about as ridiculous as saying most car accidents in Mexico are down to Mexicans, therefore it proves Mexicans are bad drivers. Your statement about age is absurd. BTW, I favour the driving age being lifted to a minimum of 18 and then cancelled permanently at 80.

I have great concern for the elderly; I have visions of one old soul racing head long down a hill, out of control in his motorised cart, heading towards the creek, sing 'Yankee Doodle Dandy' as he crashes into the stream. And another old fella with a gun, taking pot shots at the neighbours clothesline, thinking he is shooting crows off the telegraph wires. This sort of thing is a great concern to me, as it should be to all of us.

Paul

When are you going to face the fact that you are elderly? You must be a laughing stock at the local Green branch. A useful old idiot. Well, maybe useful, maybe not. Your membership fee is probably appreciated.

I'll bet the 16 year granddaughter has a bit of a snigger behind your back, too.

Oh dear, he’s on about guns again, just goes to shew how being considered not a fit and proper person to hold a firearms licence can affect one’s beheavoir,

is Mise,
How could we possibly get it to answer questions & stop waffling irrelevancies ?

Hi Issy,

Guns are a recognised danger in society, one reason we have gun licences. Such licences should not be handed out to old folk like bingo cards at the RSL. Guns should be taken out of the hands of old people and replaced with a packet of soft lollies (soft as hard lollies cause prolems with their false teeth), at the age of 70. Agree? I don't see reasons to remove all licences from old folk, a dog licence for you seems reasonable, that's so you can keep a companion pet, such as a Bichon Frise or a Pomeranian, no Rottweiler's, very dangerous! I am willing to throw caution to the wind and allow old folk such as yourself and other forumites to keep a goldfish as a pet for company (one only) without a licence and totally unsupervised. Hows that?

How’s that?
Unbelievably stupid.

Just a question. How many countries with an armed population have been invaded?

How’s that?
Unbelievably stupid.

I have to agree Issy, I don't know what came over me, extremely rash on my part, yes supervision is absolutely necessary. Unsupervised you could take your pet goldfish out of his bowl, and try and dry him out in the microwave, with very serious consequences.....for Goldie that is!

News Flash; 95 year old man dies when he fell off his tractor.

News Flash ! Silly hypocritical Git exposes itself as an oxygen thief !

Old people need to protect themselves from the wisdom-lacking Woke !