Hi IF,

Christians in Australia are not persecuted.
They have the freedom to gather and worship
freely, to meet in public places, join the
army, teach, vote, and be PM.

They own and run vast institutions. They are
still the largest affiliation in the country
according to the 2016 census. These are hardly
the signs of a persecuted group.

It is an important conversation to be had - but
it becomes difficult when it gets bogged down
in rhetorical hyperbole and inflammatory rhetoric.

As a whole the Christian community is responsible
for a huge amount of damage done in the name of
religious belief. It is insulting to be crying
persecution to the thousands around the world
who face actual daily persecution because of
their religion or ethnicity. It is hurtful to the
men, women, and children who have been demonized
by the church because of their sexuality or gender.

And yet the history is that cultural or government
shifts or outright attempts at extermination of
religion have not always succeeded. Consider
China, Russia, N. Korea, Albania, Yugoslavia and
their underground churches that have and are
flourishing in those areas.

It's a shame that we humans can't learn to live
peacefully side by side and live and let live.

Hi Foxy,
I think everybody has the right (and even an obligation to themselves) to stand up for what they believe in and their best interests.
The second we all stop doing that, someone else will try to walk all over us.

Whilst some of your criticisms hold merit, that in itself doesn't necessary mean churchgoers of today are responsible for what the church has done in the past.

The west seems to have this 'One size fits all' attitude to controlling everything on the planet, and not everybody agrees.

"If you don't do it our way, then we are going to do everything possible to demonise you"
Where's the tolerance now?

There is no real unity, there is no real equality, there is no real tolerance.
- And there never will be, so why all the fuss?

If you are going and oppose the churches views, then why do you even bother going there?

It's pathetic.
It's like complaining about whats on tv, but not giving any consideration to the fact that 'You can watch something else if you want'.

It seems as though the world is saying to the churches 'You must change'.
It's kind of weak in a way.
Try telling other religions they must change.
Try telling Muslims that they must embrace homosexuality in their mosques.
What response do you think you will get?

Market forces dictate that if these religions aren't giving the people good bang for their buck, they will become irrelevant anyway.

Me personally, I don't think... if fact I'm sure,
- That no religions have all the answers.
If any one of them did, the world wouldn't be like this.

Hi AC,

We have seen Australia change from being an almost
Christian country to one where just 44% practice
Christianity. This shows a shift away from
religion by citizens. The church has found itself
out of step with changing social attitudes towards
social values on issues like divorce, abortion,
same sex marriage and so on.

Confusing persecution with marginalisation or
disagreement is insulting to the thousands around the
world who face actual daily persecution because of their
religion or ethnicity. It is insulting to the men,
women, and children who have been hurt by the church because
of their sexuality or gender.

Religion has much to say - sorry for - instead of
screaming persecution. As stated earlier - Christian in
Australia are not persecuted. They have the freedom to
gather and worship freely, to meet in public places,
join the army, teach, vote, and be PM. They own and run vast
institutions. These are hardly the signs of a persecuted
group. Yet they do preach division and disunity from
the pulpit. And this is why people are leaving.

"The church has found itself
out of step with changing social attitudes towards
social values on issues like divorce, abortion,
same sex marriage and so on."

Yeah, so what?
That's for them to deal with.

Confusing persecution with marginalisation or
disagreement is insulting to the thousands around the
world who face actual daily persecution because of their
religion or ethnicity.

Are you saying that because other religious people are crapped on worse than these people that they have no right to complain or defend their own interests?

Hmmm... seems like a flimsy argument.

Its like saying that women who get bashed by their partners shouldn't complain because other women get murdered by their partners.
Maybe the women getting bashed should just shut-up and be grateful?

"It is insulting to the men,
women, and children who have been hurt by the church because
of their sexuality or gender."

makes no sense.

Your gay, you know your gay and you know the church isn't fond of it.
That's been their way for thousands of years, but suddenly some gay people say 'your hurting us'.

"This isn't the Mardi Gras, it's a church you idiots."

Do you think that gay people don't dislike christians just as much as christians dislike gays?

If you respect that people have a right to religion, then you have to also accept their religious views and beliefs which are inseparable.

Otherwise you have to ban all religions, and bulldoze all places of worship.

You can't have freedom of religion but then try to impose and dictate to all religions what their beliefs should be, it just doesn't work.

[Cont.]
And if you are going to ban religions and discriminate against them, then why stop there?
Why not ban gay places as well, to be fair.

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- Head on down to the suckatorium and the douching room where you belong?
'wtf are you even doing at church?'
The church frowns even on lust and many Christians think sex is only for the purpose of procreation.

Seems to me gays just want to cause shite.
If your interested in religion, go get a bible.
No-one says gays can't read it, it's their choice.
The Christians aren't forcing gays at the barrel of a gun.
- Both sides should be more tolerant of the others views.

Wheres your tolerance now?

There's no law that says Christians must respect gay peoples views, any more than there is a law which states that gays must respect Christian's views.

People are individuals and have their own opinions, feelings, and preferences.