PALE - of course you can't separate the economy from security.

But the notion that animal exports is in any way a significant factor in the Australian security situation is utterly ludicrous.

As far as being 'better off with old fox Howard' for security... I am somewhat sceptical of this reasoning.

What you don't address here, is that each and every security related decision has a positive and negative factor.

In the post above, I've explained how Australia's long term relationship with the US is unlikely to be affected significantly by who our leader is, or whether we follow a security path that is marginally less integrated with the US.

Now we also need to consider the flip side of the coin - we can still remain close to the US, without participating in skirmishes that will hurt other relationships.

Have you considered the notion that we can still maintain a close friendship with the US, but follow a path that is less likely to antagonise other nations?

The Malaysian Prime Minister made a point in the Australian today, saying that our reputation has been damaged by our involvement in Iraq.
I happen to believe it we'd just contributed logistical support to US Middle eastern operations, we could still have maintained friendship without the negative effects.

As far as 'old fox' Howard goes, remember his 'deputy sheriff' comment to Bush about the South East Asian region? How do you think that went down with our neighbours?

You'll have to do better than 'old fox howard' to convince me of his superiority on security issues.

Belly
Sorry I didnt see your post earlier. Its a difficult call either way isnt it.
I agree with much of what you say and your counter arugument.
We are darned if we do and darned if we dont.
There are plenty of people over there that love bush for getting rid of a dictator.
You just dont here so much about that side.
Then again and I guess this is a little selfish thinking of the rest of the world he did control some of the others and the near neighbour that could be a bigger threat one day.
So yes I agree with your counter argument also.
Turnrightleft.

There is nothing silly about linking live exports to Australia`s sercuirty at all.
You surprise me if you do not know how these ships with forty staff etc enter Australian Waters for starters.
There is nothing too secure about a ship captin faxing through a list of names onboard to the livecopre for example who are not police but live export shipping agents.

Not unusal to get a fax from a captin with thirty names on a list.
Mostly Mohameds.
I raised this five years ago and there was a stink for a while and they said they made `some changes.
This is somthing that would equire much further space to reply to you in more detail.
As for the old fox Howard I should think you may have guessed he no friend of people concerned with Animal Welfare being led around with the help of the cruel National
However hes an expereinced old war horse and smells a weakness long before many.
Look how he pounched up here in QLD when Rudd could not control Beattie in his own party.
I certainly have nothing personally against Rudd and as a man minus baggage of union boses. He may make a good PM one day

If he cant stand up to his own party member how is he going to stand up for Australia.
Give him a few years.
In the mean time we may need the old fox.

Yep. Old Labor. Reckon theyre still working for the old communist flame. Under Bob Hawke what seems like the last of the defence weapons that might have been handed out to the citizens in time of invasion went to the blast furnaces at Pt. Kembla and were never replaced. No one picked up on the anamoly it seems and even today Bobs helping hand to the PLA remains as it was then. All we will get under Labor is more rights for homosexuals. They dont give a hoot about national defence.

Gibo: "All we will get under Labor is more rights for homosexuals. They don't give a hoot about national defence."

Less guns, more equal rights? Awesome. Coming from you especially, that's the best endorsement of Labor I've heard.

Are kevin Rudd and Labour putting th Australian public at risk by not supporting Americ?

Quite simply no, that would make us less of a target for terrorists.

Turnrighleft

Said
"All we will get under Labor is more rights for homosexuals. They don't give a hoot about national defence."

pale replies.
Really I didnt know labour were pro Homo rights.
Are they?
bloody Hell. Tell us more please
Stone the Crows- What next.
If ALP get in we ARE stuffed as a country.
They have NO policy No idea and are rude arrogant and lies.
They have done nothing but either refuse to answer question to us - run - head for the hills or lie.
Kevins track record in QLD is nothing to be excited about trust me.
They have not even run a council. They blame Federal for the hospitals and police but that IS a lie.
Mind you we HATE the Howard Governments lack of reasonsibilty towards Animals Welfare.
They ought to be taken out and shot sending our jobs away in raw materials.
idiots.
But labours Worse.
We really didnt know Labour we giving Homos more rights.
Thats of huge concern. Children need a Dad AND Mum.
Perhaps the answer is to get rid of the lot of them ALP and Federal
I cant see any other answer.