Yuyutsu,

Do your research on the topic.
I shall be happy to continue this discussion
with you once you've done that.

Dear Yuyutsu,

Thank you. I usually disagree with you, but I have also learned from you.

This always happens. Foxy relies on the most biased of sources to provide confirmation of what she wants to believe (Lowenstein? Holy cow!) and then when bounced on it, exhorts others to seek out more unbiased sources, without ever showing evidence of practicing as she preaches.

For those truly interested in unbiased research....The Rise of Israel: A History of a Revolutionary State by Jonathan Adelman

mhaze,

The book by Jonathan Adelman that you cite -
"The Rise of Israel," has been described as
"openly biased." and "just plain bungkum."

It was reviewed in the United States on November 26, 2012.

" I came to this book in the hope of finding a well argued
discourse on the creation of the State of Israel. I am not
a Jew and I am not an Arab. I have a MA in Modern History
from the world's second oldest university and try whenever
possible to assimilate information from all sides of an
argument - in order to make an informed judgement."

"My concerns about this book were raised in the introduction..."

"Reading on the author told me that in 1948 many of the
Arabs who left did so of their own accord - only 500,000
in total compared with the 700,000 in most versions.
He told me that the 1937 Peel plan was accepted by the
20th Zionist Congress, whilst failing to inform the
reader of the facts around this - both Ben Gurion and
Weizmann are on record as accepting the partition on the
basis that it was a temporary border for later expansion. -
a fact hidden from the rest of the world."

"Again the Camp David 2 proposals, which closely
disadvantaged the Palestinians, are portrayed as an Israeli
peace offering which Arafat refused point blank. Here he
ignores the facts and actually quotes the land exchange formula,
omitting the 10 year delay that was in the deal."

"This by is all in the first 20 pages. At this point I put the
book in the bin."

"What I find so disheartening about this is that the whole
conflict from the 1880s onwards is riddled with lies and
propaganda on both sides - and the lack of a solution is
largely down to the now ingrained mistrust that this has caused.
Meanwhile both Arab and Jew continue to die. I don't think that
any book which perpetuates this is worthy of print."

Yes Foxy, that's how you do research. Find someone (an anonymous Amazon reviewer, struth!) who'll tell you why you shouldn't read information you don't want to be true.

Really Foxy? Quoting anonymous Amazon reviews? Anything to avoid contrary views.

mhaze,

Pot, kettle, black.

The sources you have used in the past have been questionable
and supported your views - be they in support of
your much admired former US President Trump, Cardinal
Pell, Christian Porter, and any one else you thought
worthy. Before you critique others - look at the sources
you provide before tarnishing those of others.

Your derogatory reaction to independent, investigative
journalist, author and film-maker, Antony Lowenstein
whose knowledge of Israel is highly respected was
to me - concerning.

Lowenstein has written for The New York Times, Haaretz,
The Washington Post, The Sydney Morning Herald, The Sun-
Herald, The Bulletin, The Australian, to name just a few.
His books have been on reading lists for students
throughout Australia.

Be that as it may - I can't help wondering if you've read
the book by renowned Israeli historian Prof. Ilan Pappe -
"The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine."

Prof. Pappe offers impressive archival evidence to
demonstrate that from its very inception a central plank
in Israel's ideology was the forcible removal of the
Indigenous population. His book is indispensable for anyone
interested in the current crisis in the Middle East.

BTW: Prof. Pappe supports a one-state solution which envisages
a unitary state for Palestinians and Israelis.
He was born in Israel - but due to death threats, he and his
family left Israel and he now lives in the UK and teaches
at the University of Exeter.