As the Opposition sat in silence the new Federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers delivered, if not a grim report, a somewhat confronting update on the state of the economy to Parliament yesterday. Referring to the trillion dollar Liberal Party debt inherited by Labor, and the cost of servicing that debt was one aspect of the report. There were several other negatives, such as restricted wage growth, rising inflation and increasing interest rates for borrowers. However there was a couple of positives, including and expectation that Australia will avoid a recession through economic growth, and therefore unemployment will remain low. Housing affordability is of great concern, and lack of supply coupled with rising interest rates will have a major impact on rents and mortgages. Income tax cuts for the highest earners is still on the agenda and spending in the areas of infrastructure, energy, health etc are still earmarked to take place as promised by Labor during the election campaign. Labor didn't create the economic mess, but it was voted in to fix it.

Anyone interested has already seen, read or heard it in the media. Same old same old. Nothing that a reasonably astute person wouldn't already know. Even had the expected blaming of the previous government. Yawn! Both sides do that, which just sets the scene for future excuse-making when the current government stuffs up over the next three years; and stuff up the Socialists will, with grand gestures, virtue-signalling, weather wankery, economic illiteracy and general incompetence. Not much different from the previous government.

Hi Paul,

The economic problems seem to currently be global ones.
The US is also hard hit at the moment. As I'm sure so are
other countries. The federal treasurer backs long term
wages growth, untangling the supply chain issues and
helping with childcare costs to lift Australia's economy
We're not the only country grappling with a large increase in
cost of living pressures.

However it seems that there is a plan, especially for
strong sustainable wages growth.

Chalmers admitted to two election lies: that the Socialists would reduce power prices and increase wages. But, he said that will not happen. It has taken only a couple of months for Labor-lies to be revealed. It's just too awful to contemplate what other lies and incompetence will be revealed oved the next long three years

Hi Paul,

The Reserve Bank's May Monthly Statement said:

"More broadly the Australian economy remains resilient
and is expectant to grow strongly this year."

Also Australia's growth rate is remaining strong at 4.2%,
according to the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

All we need is for the government to be supported and
allowed to put their plans into action.

We don't need any negativity at the moment. Negativity
encourages - inaction - which doesn't achieve anything.

The treasurer is letting us know that they do have plans
to deal with the challenges we're facing.

ttbn,

Did you watch Chalmers, he didn't say Labor would not reduce power prices and would not attempt to increase wages, actually increase disposable income, through benefits such as child care cost reductions, PBS cost reductions, increased funding for Medicare to reduce out of pocket expenses etc. If you did watch you either lack comprehension, or lie.

What is your ONE NATION proposals to help Australians through tougher economic times, the GREENS have policies in that area, where are yours?

Keeping the economy functioning amid growing global
tensions and rising inflation without blowing the budget
will provide a tough test for the Albanese government.
However the government does have a parliamentary majority
so it won't need to make concessions.

Yet economists see Australia withstanding a housing
downturn and higher interest rates through low exchange rate,
stronger population growth, increased business investment
and continued elevated prices for key commodity exports
such as coal and iron ore.

Of course there could be some policy shifts - but these
don't change the economic picture in the near term -
according to Commonwealth Bank economists.

There are only two parties capable of forming a government in this country, and they are pretty much the same in most things these days. What One Nation or the Greens do or think is irrelevant, and will remain so. All they do is run interference. Unlike the major parties they can do nothing about wages, power prices, or anything else. They might as well not exist as long as we have compulsory voting and compulsory preferential voting. Australian voters have been deliberately prevented from punishing politicians in the way available to voters in other systems.

Voters certainly managed to punish quite a few
politicians at the last election. They also managed to
reward many.

A few months ago a particularly prescient member of our group (modesty forbids) opined that "Whoever wins this election is likely to presented with the worst economic outlook faced by any incoming government since 1975."

Unsurprisingly this wasn't a major issue in the election since the Libs didn't want to talk about their monumental economic failures and the ALP didn't want to answer questions about how they'd handle the problems given that they didn't, and still don't, have any answers.

The real problem is that the actual answers to this problem are things that neither party wants to face let alone do.

Reduce the government deficit? Not a chance. The ALP has come in with a series of costly promises and they have learned from Gillard that failing to honour promises is death. So they'll spend, spend and spend. Not as wantonly as Morrison, mind you, but inappropriately nonetheless.

The ALP's best idea seems to be to find savings by making the functions of government more efficient. This is standard for all governments who really don't have any idea where to make cuts. It almost always ends up being more costly.

Real living standards are going to fall. Unemployment is going to rise. The government debt will continue to rise. Inflation also. And interest rates.

At the moment, the ALP can rightly say it's not their fault, but that won't fly in a year's time when things are, if anything worse.

The US is in recession. Germany's, and therefore Europe's, economy was inevitably going the same way, BEFORE Putin started withholding gas. Their problems are worse than those of the US which is saying something given the US has Biden in charge.

And China? Well from Keating on through we put all our eggs in that basket, and the idiocy of that policy is about to become apparent as Xi's hubris unravels.

We are a great trading nation trying to exist in a world where trade is falling off a cliff. The old curse is "may you live in interesting times". Well they don't get much more 'interesting' than this.

Foxy wrote (hoped) "The Reserve Bank's May Monthly Statement said:...."

Yes let's all put our faith in the Reserve Bank!

The same RBA that told us not so long ago...""The central scenario remains that the condition for a lift in the cash rate [ie interest rates] will not be met until 2024." That Reserve Bank?

The same RBA that told us not so long ago that "Inflation is expected to pick up a little alongside the gradual decline in the unemployment rate, to be 1.75 per cent by mid 2023." Yes let's put our faith in that RBA.

Australians over the past decade abdicated all reason to 'the experts'. Experts who got the lockdowns so wrong and foreign policy so wrong. The RBA utterly failed the nation as it allowed, even cheered, the government into running up a $1 trillion debt while keeping rates low for way too long.

We won't really recover from the disasters of the last 5 years until these 'experts' are hounded out of power to be replaced with people who have some notion of the real world. Chalmers's inquiry into the RBA is a small, a very small, step in that direction

Thanks for a bit of seance, rather than rhetoric, mhaze.

Foxy also quoted the International Monetary Fund (IMF)
and an economist from the Commonwealth Bank. But hey what
do they know? Our OLO posters know better?
They appear to think they do.

In any case - here on OLO we all have our opinions.

Jim Chalmers is in a good position
given his background as a key member of former Treasurer
Wayne Swan's staff. The fact that he was Wayne Swan's
Chief-of-Staff - he's in the right faction of the
Labor Party - so I don't think we'll see anything too radical
from him.

Anyway, lets wait and see.

"Foxy also quoted the International Monetary Fund (IMF)
and an economist from the Commonwealth Bank."

Well show me an economist who accurately predicted, twelve months ago, where we'd be today in terms of inflation and interest rates, and I'll go along with their future predictions.

But believing people today who were wrong yesterday and just regurgitated policy predictions is a fool's errand.

When, in ancient times, I was studying economics, one of the best truisms I was given by my lecturer was that the definition of an economist is someone who knows exactly why his last prediction was wrong.

The Liberals should be laughing. There has never been a better election to lose. Things are going to get much worse, and it doesn't matter who caused what in the past, an increasingly hard up and angry electorate is going to blame the sitting government, not the opposition, no matter how much Chalmers whines about what he 'inherited'. The goldfish-memory voters have already forgotten what the last lot did or didn’t do. They are now looking at a government whose mania about emissions will make them even poorer. By the time it is proved that the weather won’t change just because little old Australia ruins its economy - while the big emitters do nothing - even dozy Australians will be hopping mad.

mhaze,

I also studied economics way back. The most common criticism
of economic forecasts is that they're usually wrong.
In a liberal sense this is of course true because forecasters
can't hope to get things right to the last decimal point.
In a general sense however, the proposition is wrong. Some
economic variables can be forecast to a reasonable degree of
accuracy most of the time.

Economic forecasting is however - far from a perfect
science.

Still forecasts are useful not because they're accurate
but if properly used and understood will lead to better
business decisions than forecasts ignored or naively used.

"Chalmers admitted to two election lies: that the Socialists would reduce power prices and increase wages."

Imagine being clueless enough to believe Labor are socialists....

As usual, the Liberals destroyed things and Labor will pick up the mess

"The most common criticism
of economic forecasts is that they're usually wrong."

Yet people continue to believe 'the experts'...especially when they tell them what they want to hear.

The outlook is not good. And it'll continue to get worse long before it gets better...http://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-29/aemo-reports-record-wholesale-power-price-customer-nightmare/101279554

"...households and businesses had only just begun to feel the effects of spiralling wholesale costs [of electricity], and much worse was coming."

Much worse electricity costs.
Much higher inflation.
Much higher cost of living.
Much higher interest rates.
Declining house prices.
Collapsing international situation.
Increasing government debt.

Our political elite just aren't equipped to handle this.

Forecasts are so much more useful than having no
forecasts at all. And as stated earlier - properly used
and understood will lead to better business decisions
than forecasts ignored.

Jim Chalmers is in a good position given his background
and experience. And again as stated earlier - I don't
think we'll see anything too radical from him.

For anyone interested here's a link worth reading:

http://www.ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-2022/speeches/ministerial-statement-economy

What economic policies that are providing revenue have the Greens developed & implemented ?

Labor inherited one of the strongest economies in the world and far stronger than it received from Labor in 2013.

However, with record low unemployment, high growth and the oil price shock inflation was sure to rise which is why the coalition promised to cut spending. With Labor at the reins for 2 months, inflation has increased dramatically mostly due to Labor's incompetence and failure to act.

The way it is looking Labor is looking like steering Australia into its first real recession since Keating.

"Forecasts are so much more useful than having no
forecasts at all."

Nup. Bad forecasts are worse than no forecasts. The heinous errors from our government 'experts' over the past 18 months have led us to this position where the current government has little to no room to manoeuvre other than sit tight and hope things improve internationally.

What is even worse than bad forecasts is allowing those who made these decisions to continue in their functions. The entire RBA ought to be removed. The Treasury Dept ought to be gutted. If Chalmers has any sense he will be seeking advice outside the golden towers and from people prepared to tell him some home truths. Not that I think he'd be in a position to act on that advice since it will upset the hopes and dreams of those in his party.

The main reason I voted Labor was to get the Libs out of office. While they kept winning there was little incentive for them to examine their philosophy. Dragged by Turnbull and then Morrison further away from fiscal responsibility and support of the free-market, the Libs were a disaster for the nation. What I'm looking for from the Libs is a recognition of the error of the last five years and a desire to return to being the type of economic managers the country needs and the ALP simply can't supply. As things get progressively worse over the next year, it will be more electorally acceptable to go down that path. But I don't think the current Lib leadership are the ones to make that realignment.

Here's the link again:

http://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/jim-chalmers-2022/speeches/ministerial-statement-economy

We'll have to wait and see what Labor will be capable
of achieving. Hopefully using government expenditure
to increase productivity by investing in things
like education and training, and innovation will help
grow the economy.

Budgets should be assessed "not on whether it's a little
bit bigger or a little bit smaller than our opponents"
but on "value for money."

Chalmers has argued it's the quality not the quantity
of the government spend that is most important.

Mhaze was not be the only one who didn't vote Liberal to get rid of the mess that Turnbull and Morrison turned the Liberal party into. Many, many voters who have never voted anything but Liberal previously did the same: dyed in the wool conservatives, who could not bring themselves to support the now small 'l' mob, and what they did over the past nine years. However, they didn't all vote Labor, as the Socialists' miserable primary vote shows. Albo and Co. will be hanging on grimly for three years, and be lucky to get more than one term judging by Chalmers speech. Their presence in government is merely the result of a protest vote, not a vote of confidence. As Albo's lies become more evident, as people realise that a 43% emissions reduction, put into law, means that the courts and unelected judges will be running the show, there will be lots of regret.

Of course, the Liberal party will have to get back to its natural mission: stop #me tooing on climate, do some real opposing and stop trying to pretend that they can control the weather in the same way Labor does, only a bit more cheaply.

The eventual long term victors in the political stakes will be those who knock this expensive, economy destroying climate crap in the head permanently.

On the climate crap, I agree with Thomas Sowell, who said that people have a need for crusades, and that climate change "is the latest in a long, almost never ending series of crusades".

Politicians struggle and in many cases fail to manage the everyday things like the economy, immigration, education, health and welfare - all the things that they are paid to - but they have the absolute gall to think that they can master the weather!

"On the climate crap, I agree with Thomas Sowell, who said that people have a need for crusades, and that climate change "is the latest in a long, almost never ending series of crusades"."

Thomas Sewell is literal human garbage, a right wing POS selling ignorance.

Science is true. What we know is true, does not care about your views on the economy

Has anyone ever seen 'Voice of Reason' and Mr Opinion together in the same room?

Hi V of R,

Well said.

"However, they didn't all vote Labor, as the Socialists' miserable primary vote shows. "

Why do illiterate people think Labor are socialists? Like Democrats, they are right wing without the culture wars. They are less scum, that is all. The GREENS got the highest vote they ever got (I did door knocking for them), proving that intelligent people are leaning more and more left

The IPA's John Roskam has written an article called, "If only the Coalition knew how to govern like Labor", in which he refers to the "ambition" of the ALP in office, and the stark "meekness" and timidity of the Coalition".

Although Labor has formed government only three times in the last ten federal elections, they have more influence on the direction of Australia's policy than the Coalition does.

Roskam writes that the Coalition governs as though they will be in power for ever - and they achieve very little; but the Socialists, knowing that their popular support is tenuous, use "every means at their disposal" to implement their policies.

A case in point is the enshrining in law of the 43% emissions reduction horror, which will mean that the government can change the figure at any time "without reference to Parliament" and with no approval by the Senate. This might be questionable, But constitutional niceties aren’t stopping the Albanese government, according to the author. Morrison didn't bother with them either, with his national "cabinet" which Albanese has retained.

Another example is the intention to abolish the Australian Building and Construction Commission. In this, the Minister responsible, Tony Burke, has said that, even if the assault on the ABCC is not supported in the Senate, his regime will simply stop funding it.

Roskam finds it impossible to imagine a Coalition Minister making such a move. Nobody could.

It has been revealed that voters will be asked, if the Voice referendum gets off the ground, the simple question" Do you support an alteration to the constitution that establishes an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice?".

Straightforward yes or no. Nothing tricky.

Reportedly, the construction of the Voice to Parliament would be a matter for the Parliament and would not be able to do more than advise the government on relevant issues.

Would the activists and YES voters be happy with that? With all the rabble rousing and screeching going on, I would think not.

The three sentences that would be added to the Constitution are available now, but the PM will announce them officially, at least showing that he, or someone, has rejected the secretiveness of the pushers and urgers, particularly of the Aboriginal Affairs Minister who wanted a YES vote 'sight unseen' fashion, which would have attracted plenty of NO votes. Silly woman.

Albanese is "expected" to warn that the situation for Indigenous Australians which sees a life expectancy gap of 20 years and higher rates of imprisonment will not improve without action.

As if we haven't known that for many years! But 'action' is not just fiddling with the Constitution, and we already have 70 expensive quangos that have changed nothing.

Mhaze,

The idiot will mizzle off just as Mr. Opinion did when nobody took any notice of him. I have not looked at any of the new arrival's posts since his first maniacal outburst. Twitter and Facebook with all the other nutters is the where he/she should be.

"Would the activists and YES voters be happy with that? With all the rabble rousing and screeching going on, I would think not.
"

Only elderly right wing people are screeching, mate....

There needs to be a sunset clause in the referendum.
Visualise in the future, there will be a group of people perhaps as
high as 30% of the population that has special influence in the
making of laws. This 30% will be largely only defined by examination
of their DNA. They will look exactly like the rest of us but have
that tiny difference in their DNA that says, yes you have one 256th
part aboriginal ancestory.
Look even now, how many aboriginals look very white or about as dark
as Italians or Spaniards.
Without a sunset clause we will generate a group of Landed Gentry.
Those opposed can scream racism but this Voice proposal will implant
racism into history.

There is a significant advantage to Labour winning the election.
They will introduce NetZero sooner and harder and crash the economy
before a lot more money is spent.
Once they get started it will quickly, and in Victoria it is already
becoming obvious, start to have disastrous affects.
I have not heard how the legislation is to be enforced.
Will we have petrol rationing ? Will be have to breath 43% less ?
Will factories with heat processes have to reduce production by 43% ?
Will bus services be reduced by 43% ?
I have not heard how it will all be done, does anyone here know ?

"Will we have petrol rationing ? Will be have to breath 43% less ?
Will factories with heat processes have to reduce production by 43% ?
Will bus services be reduced by 43% ?"

I honest to God believe this level of ignorance should result in losing the right to vote

Bazz

Most of this pie-in-the-sky crap simply won't happen. These 'believe the science' fanatics would be better off believing history.

At various times throughout the history of humankind, our most brilliant scientists and philosophers believed many things most eight-year-olds now know to be false: the earth was flat, the sun revolved around the earth, smoking cigarettes was good for digestion, humans were not related to apes, the planet was 75,000 years old, or left-handed people were unclean.

Around 100 years ago, doctors still thought bloodletting (that is, using leeches or a lancet to address infections) was useful in curing a patient. The idea that the universe was bigger than the Milky Way was unfathomable, and the fact the earth had tectonic plates that moved beneath our feet was yet to be discovered.

"Most of this pie-in-the-sky crap simply won't happen. These 'believe the science' fanatics would be better off believing history."

I reiterate, this level of stupid should not get to vote

ttbn,

Those things were absurdities based on religious beliefs, not science. It was not even based on pseudoscience simply based on biblical interpretation. The few scientists of the time, people like Copernicus and Galileo, risked their lives in scientific pursuits.

The reality is that there is nothing in the economic conditions today that wasn't blindingly obvious a month before the election. The Ukraine war that boosted fuel, gas and food prices and inflation around the world started in Feb 2022.

The Chalmer's report is Labor trying to walk away from its promises and trying to blame the coalition. Either Labor was lying through its teeth when making its promises to reduce power prices and increase real wages or it was and still is massively incompetent.

No Paul. It was based on the science of the day, in exactly the same way as it is today. As I said, people should bone up on history to see what happened in the past when nonsense the same as we are fed today was fed to people just as smart as we are - or think we are.

We will be looked back on with the same derision that we now look back on flat earthers with. Given the technology and communication abilities that we have now, I think that we are more gullible and easier led than they were.

I think Albo is already finding that he'll need to run a little dictatorship if he wants to be as effective as he can. His mob is like Goaf's crowd !

Dear Paul,

You're spot on. Galileo's scientific endeavours showed
that humans did not need the help of the supernatural
to explain nature and cure ill-health. He was put under
house arrest by the Vatican for saying that the earth moved
around the sun. In fact,, in 1633 the church made him recant
his theory of the universe.

However lets not dismiss this religious intervention in
science as a thing of the past.. We can see that on issues
which require radical solutions that are likely to harm
vested economic and political interests, censorship still
exists today.

Prof. Tor Hundloe told us that in Australia in 2006, leading
climatologists with this country's pre-eminent
public research organisation, CSIRO, were forbidden by the
organisation's management from publicly discussing the
implications of climate change.

Management was acting on behalf of the government. And Australia
is one of the standout countries in terms of human development
status. It is not corrupt. It's science is world class. None of that mattered.

In 2006, the Australian Government's position
was to cast doubt on global warming and refuse
to enter into UN agreements such as
the Kyoto Protocol. With the release of the
Stern Report on climate
change, the Australian Government's position had changed
- yet the then PM remained half-hearted about a commitment to counter global
warming. So you see - little had changed in near to 400 years
when ignorance and vested interests are confronted by
scientific facts.

While Galileo's and other wonderful discoveries were being made
not much had been learnt by the political elite in 2000 years
since Socrates' murder by the state.

And today we can see that new ideas, instead of being welcome
for the opportunities they open up for the improvement of
the human lot, are still seen as threats to those who have
become comfortable in their ideologies (religious or
otherwise). Look at the recent Labor's opening move in Parliament
where Labor and the Greens each seek to win on climate, while
the Coalition opts to be left behind.

cont'd ...

Indyvidual

If Albo gets this 43% BS into law, he will be able to dictate any increase he comes up with in one of his brainfarts, without any reference to Parliament. He will have judicial backing, too.

I get the feeling that Albo will make the Fabian Whitlam look very conservative.

cont'd ...

Dear Paul,

Rachel Withers writes:

" The entire climate bill upgrade has been one giant
self-own from a recalcitrant Opposition. The Coalition
has forced Labor into negotiation with the Greens when
it could have simply helped the bill in it weaker form
and sidelined the minor party instead ( not to mention,
this would have helped the Coalition regain a small
shred of credibility in this space)."

"No doubt the Opposition was hoping the whole thing
would fall over, or that it would gain an opening to
attack the government for negotiating with the Greens."

" Indeed, Senator Hollie "climate change is not Australia's
problem" Hughes has already been on the attack, telling
Sky News this morning that Labor was giving the Greens
"what they want", while complaining about not having a
copy of the bill herself. But few, it seems, are really
listening to the party that is sniping from the sideline
over a bill it refused to countenance."

"This government is not out of the woods yet, of course,
with some way to go in negotiations with the Greens. But
there's no doubt that the climate bill is going to end up
stronger. If only marginally as a result of Labor needing
to negotiate with those to its left instead of those to
the right. And that's something for which we can all
thank the Coalition."

The coalition is counting on a wildly unrealistic climate bill. Any coalition with the greens has typically sunk any labor government.

This is a great opportunity for the Coalition to show
clearly to voters, particularly former Liberal supporters
in many electorates who left on 21 May that it has heard
their calls for more action on climate.

Ignoring the call was one of the primary reasons so
many seats that were regarded as Liberal heartland were lost.

Hi Foxy,

The negotiated bill, is in the interest of all Australians. The Coalition is fast becoming irrelevant to any bill presented to the parliament, there are 17 more bills on the short term agenda, climate change is just one, there are others, as well as issues to be openly debated, such as the "Aboriginal voice to parliament" referendum question. Dutton and co, simply want to add nothing to the debate, that is unfortunate as one function of Opposition is to offer constructive criticism, and alternative policy.

The Greens will always offer alternatives and criticism of Labor policy and direction, as I expect all Non-Labor members to do. The Coalition should stop bleating about their defeat, and get on with the job. A big problem for Dutton is the division within the ranks, pandering to the hard right faction within the Liberal, and don't forget the Nationals, will do him no good. Dutton will prove a real dud, as he is hamstrung every which way he turns.

Hi Paul,

Julian Leeser, the Coalition spokesman for Indigenous
Australians does say that the Coalition does offer
support for an Indigenous Voice to Parliament as
laid out by the PM. It just wants more detail. So
at least that's a good start.

"The coalition is counting on a wildly unrealistic climate bill. Any coalition with the greens has typically sunk any labor government."

How sad for you that Albo can read, and trusts science....

Hi Foxy,

Albanese should outline the tenet of any envisioned legislation, which is normal practice before a referendum is put forward. Labor is doing that, but I sense the Coalition will look for any excuse to oppose a "Indigenous voice to parliament". I believe the Coalition will run a superfluous scare campaign to mask the fact they oppose Indigenous rights to begin with. Because of the difficulty of getting referendums passed in this country, one major party opposing is enough to ensure its defeat, and that's the ultimate objective of the conservatives in the Opposition.

Paul,

The indigenous have exactly the same rights as everyone else already.

Perhaps Albozo should spend some time on why one racial group should have rights and privileges over and above any other racial group.

"The indigenous have exactly the same rights as everyone else already."

This sort of willful ignorance is why the liberals were wiped out at the last election.

VOR,

Could you please point out any rights that Non-indigenous have that Indigenous people don't?

It's this type of willful ignorance that lead to Labor being obliterated in 2013.

SM,

For example,

Are you saying the mining industry has the same access to the ministerial ear as does the ordinary citizen, when it comes to all things mining? The reality is certain groups and individuals have greater access, and are listened to more, particularly the big political donors. Your folk hero Rupert, without a vote, being a foreigner and all, has greater influence within the Coalition than the ordinary Australian.

BTW; Things not looking good for your man Barrels in NSW. The whiff of corruption is strong in the air once again.

SM,

"The reality is that there is nothing in the economic conditions today that wasn't blindingly obvious a month before the election."

Then you admit the Coalition was lying during the election campaign when they tried to paint a rosy picture of the economy, and claimed outstanding economic management credentials. As we know because of Coalition incompetence the Australian taxpayer is now saddled with a trillion dollars of debt, with nothing to show for i!

"Could you please point out any rights that Non-indigenous have that Indigenous people don't?"

Stealing a chocolate bar at age 12 without going to jail? Walking out of jail alive? Going into a store without security assuming you are a thief?

Just off the top of my head

Australian Indigenous do have more Rights but they also are manipulated more by their pseudo cousins !

VOR,

As I thought, you have bugger all. None of the items you have mentioned is a legal right and secondly, none apply more to one race than the other.

I doubt that you can actually provide an example of a 12yr old with no prior record being jailed for stealing a chocolate bar.

Note also that deaths in custody for non-aboriginals are about the same % as for aboriginals.

"I doubt that you can actually provide an example of a 12yr old with no prior record being jailed for stealing a chocolate bar."

It's a well known case that literally happened LOL!

Christ this is a snowflake forum. I can post with two exclamation points.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/prison-is-no-place-for-a-child-australia-to-discuss-raising-the-age-of-criminal-responsibility/rnh5ukttg

"Note also that deaths in custody for non-aboriginals are about the same % as for aboriginals."

"In 2020–21 there were 82 deaths in custody, 31 fewer than in 2019–20. The total included 15 Indigenous deaths and 67 non-Indigenous deaths."

https://www.aic.gov.au/media-centre/news/new-deaths-custody-report-released-0

So your claim is that 20% of Australians are indigenous? LOL!!

Hi TVR,

"Going into a store without security assuming you are a thief?" I have to agree with that, whenever my wife and I, my wife being a brown skin Maori, visit dress shops, she seems often to get extra "customer service". I recall once in Bondi Junction Sydney, the wife was browsing through a rack at the front door of a shop. The "Karen" at the back couldn't run fast enough to get to the door to offer the wife "customer service". I had noticed a white woman in the shop browsing, but Karen didn't make a move on her, only on my wife.

p/s Me being an old white guy, and never suspected, should have slipped into the shop and knocked off Karen's mobile phone while she was offering all that wonderful "customer service" to the cheese and kisses.

VOR,

Thanks for proving that there are more non-indigenous deaths in custody than indigenous deaths in custody. Also, don't lie or put words in my mouth. The prison population is close to 20% indigenous not the entire population of the country.

You still haven't been able to provide an example of a 12yr old with no prior record being jailed for stealing a chocolate bar.

"Thanks for proving that there are more non-indigenous deaths in custody than indigenous deaths in custody. Also, don't lie or put words in my mouth. The prison population is close to 20% indigenous not the entire population of the country."

The raw number is more, but the indigenous is 3.3% of the population, so they are locked up more, per capita. Are you just thick? 20% indigenous? then my point is made, don't you think?

"You still haven't been able to provide an example of a 12yr old with no prior record being jailed for stealing a chocolate bar."

I don't store a link to everything I ever read and cross index it to placate crazed boomers on the internet.

VOR,

Are you stupid? If your point was that the proportion of deaths in custody is the same per race, then it has been made. Which was my point. If the proportion of prisoners per population is higher for aboriginals then that does not contradict my point.

The point that domestic and other violence is much higher (up to 30x) higher in aboriginal communities may help to explain this.

I see that you snowflakes have a problem with memory but considering the irrelevant bollocks you have posted I don't believe you ever saw anything about a 12 year without a record being jailed.

"Are you stupid? If your point was that the proportion of deaths in custody is the same per race, then it has been made. Which was my point. If the proportion of prisoners per population is higher for aboriginals then that does not contradict my point.

The point that domestic and other violence is much higher (up to 30x) higher in aboriginal communities may help to explain this."

I see you are an idiot. I proved the rate of aboriginals is much higher in fact. The rate of policing of Aboriginals is much higher but given our society keeps aboriginals in poverty, I'd expect more crime as a result.

I don't see how DV rates relate to property crime or people going to prison. You are grasping at straws. I think this is my last allowed post for the day so let me finish by saying, stop being a racist

VOR,

You are a pinhead and a racist. All I was doing was calling out your lies. Then to top it off having lost the argument you pull out the racist card. You really are a snowflake, next, you will tell me that you are offended by the truth.

"You are a pinhead and a racist. All I was doing was calling out your lies. Then to top it off having lost the argument you pull out the racist card. You really are a snowflake, next, you will tell me that you are offended by the truth."

I am always fascinated by right wing simpletons calling me racist (presumably to white people) because I oppose white supremacy. In general this sort of ignorant drivel is what right wing trash post when they have reached a point of being simply unable to reply to anything I've said, exposing their ignorant hate.

"Offended by the truth" - it's not the truth, old man, it's social values you learned in 1952, which we are rightly burning down and destroying.

VOR,

The statistics on violence in aboriginal communities are not social values but measured values and the only thing you are burning to the ground is your credibility.

You have still not given a single example of where the rights of citizens of aboriginal descent are any different from those of non-aboriginal descent.

"The statistics on violence in aboriginal communities are not social values but measured values and the only thing you are burning to the ground is your credibility.

You have still not given a single example of where the rights of citizens of aboriginal descent are any different from those of non-aboriginal descent."

The statistics on violence reflect poverty, not culture. Aboriginals are not endemically violent, or we would see the same things in well of Aboriginal families. We do not.

I have given lots of examples, you refuse to accept them because they fly in the face of your racist views, and your clinging to a world that has ended.

Aboriginal people are more likely to be arrested, more likely to die in custody, they die younger, they are less likely to have work, their disadvantage is basic math. And you uphold the systems that oppress them so you can claim all of these things are 'culture', and unavoidable

Voice of an idiot,

Once again you are lying. I never claimed that it was culture responsible for the aboriginal violence I just quoted the stats.

You have still not given a single example of where the rights of citizens of aboriginal descent are any different from those of non-aboriginal descent.

PS you are probably older than me, so you are the boomer.

"Once again you are lying. I never claimed that it was culture responsible for the aboriginal violence I just quoted the stats.

You have still not given a single example of where the rights of citizens of aboriginal descent are any different from those of non-aboriginal descent.

PS you are probably older than me, so you are the boomer."

If you are younger than me, why are you such a disingeneous piece of trash? Why did you cite stats, fascist? What was your point? I have given examples, but fascists are brain dead and can't read. It's also cognitive dissonance, I can shame all your BS but you can't comprehend what I say, so your hate is preserved

Voice of an idiot,

You really are a vile foul-mouthed troll with the IQ of a squirrel.

Supposedly I am a fascist because I quote stats that disagree with the fantasy you have in your head.

I have not yet expressed an actual opinion to you, I have just called out the lies that you post.

You are just another "offended snowflake" idiot troll.

"You really are a vile foul-mouthed troll with the IQ of a squirrel.

Supposedly I am a fascist because I quote stats that disagree with the fantasy you have in your head.

I have not yet expressed an actual opinion to you, I have just called out the lies that you post.

You are just another "offended snowflake" idiot troll."

I am very well mannered in the presence of decent humans

I don't dispute the stats, i dispute your racist conclusions

I have never lied. Right wing scum call me a liar to avoid debate

I'm not offended. The right are the snowflakes. The right are offended by freedom of religion, actual history lessons, human sexuality and biology, accurate science, and human diversity. As such, triggering you is easy

Voice of Idiot,

You said "I don't dispute the stats, I dispute your racist conclusions"

Another lie, I never made any conclusions.

You claim "I am very well mannered in the presence of decent humans" yet are the first to call everyone fascists etc. Another lie.

Grow up.