Having caught up with a fair amount of the Jan 6th hearings in the US I was wondering if the Trump supporters here on the forum have changed their perspectives about what happened?

I will admit some of the evidence was potentially hammed up a little but the vast bulk was factual, sobering and more than a little disturbing.

Although I do not think much of his politics Mike Pence seems to have been one of the few standouts in preserving America's democratic system as it is hard to imagine the state it would be in now had he not held firm.

I will admit to having a bit more respect for their system in that Republicans in the judicial ranks, the DOJ, and in the electoral system protected the standing of institutions by holding firm against Trump and the more deranged in his followers.

What are people thinking now?

Trump was a fascist from the start. He did exactly what his supporters wanted him to. He also trained them to call anything that paints him badly 'fake news' so I would imagine there's little reaching such people. They are a clear and present danger to our societys.

There is no need for anyone on this forum to support or not support Donald Trump, or praise him or call him childish names, because he has sweet Fanny Adams to do with us. Anthony Albanese is the only leader we should be keeping an eye on.

ttbn: "When America sneezes, the world catches a cold." Dates back to the 1929 stockmarket crash, but unfortunately still relevant. Australia especially needs to keep tabs on what's happening in America for our own protection.

BTW when are the new submarines due? Before or after WW3?

I've also watched some of the coverage on the American news
PBS - regarding Donald Trump and Jan. 6th. The testimonies
of man of his staff and advisers is very disturbing. And
heaven help the world if Trump runs for office again -
especially being our country's biggest ally - who knows
what this man will decide not do do?

I basically can't understand why this man has not been
arrested, and why he hasn't been charged with anything?

The whole world is watching the US - and it really is
very disturbing.

Trump was the inevitable outcome of a system overtaken by extremist nationalists and white supremacists. If it wasn't him it would have been somebody else but I doubt they could have found anyone else so dishonest, narcissistic and deluded and are now forever chained to his legacy.

Instead of learning from their mistake the Republicans are doubling down and have set the bar so low that their next leader will need to be more divisive.
Their democracy is in serious peril and the country so divided that things may need to get even worse before it can start to get better.

Unfortunately there are some in this country who consider Trump a hero to use as a template for their own political intentions and would like us to follow his example.

I firmly believe that we couldn't get a Trump
elected in Australia. Most Australians are far too sensible.
Yes, we have our nutters, but thankfully they are a small
minority without much influence.

The Republicans need to lift their game - and pay attention
as to whom they will be supporting as their next candidate for US President.

It could well mean the end of their democracy.

Why hasn’t Trump been arrested, because the riots presided over by the Democrats were worse. Welcome

The US will be our chief ally into the foreseeable future, no matter who they choose as their president, Republican or Democrat, peculiar or not. Their internal politics are none of our business.

Our business is to constantly scrutinise Anthony Albanese, and leave Americans to deal with their leaders and ex-leaders.

Is Mise,

Trump clearly knew there were people in that crowd who
were ready to and intended to be violent, and he
certainly did nothing to discourage that. He not only
did nothing to discourage it, he strongly hinted it should
happen with words like:

"If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have
a country anymore."

"We're going to the Capitol."

"We won the election, and we won it by a landslide."

"We will stop the steal."

"We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't
happen>'

And if you are so concerned about members of parliament
and their oaths of office - Trump's refusal
to commit to a "Peaceful Transition of Power," is an
avert violation of his oath to defend the Constitution.

I strongly disagree with the insistance that the US
will remain Australia's ally no matter who is the
US President. Should former US President run for office
again and win - Australia should be very concerned.
The man is unstable.

We've seen the former US President withdraw his country
from many significant international agreements since he
took the oath of office in Jan. 2017.
Not only that he also turned his back against his own
campaign pledges.

His decisions have triggered both domestic and international
concerns and some have even led to violent clashes.
For example his recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital
and moving the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem claimed
over 100 Palestinian lives and injured 11,000 more and also
angered several countries.

The move also violated the United Nations 1967 resolution which
asks Israel to vacate all the occupied territories of Palestine
and work towards building peace in the region.

Australia should be very concerned what's happening in the US
and who the next president will be.

Anyone but Trump.

It's a show trial that would make Comrade Vyshinsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Vyshinsky) wince with envy. Although it has been so ineptly managed that perhaps he'd laugh at the J6 committee's incompetence.

The trial shows:

1. the Democrats remained terrified at Trump's popularity and will do anything, including beclowning themselves, to try to dent that popularity. Unfortunately for them, Trump remains the most popular politician in the country.

2. Most USians are tired of the Democrat farce and cognoscente of the way the information has been presented - particularly about what has been hidden. As it turns out, more USians "believe that Trump was either not or only partially responsible for the rioters who overtook the Capitol" since the J6 farce trial began than before it started.

3. The never-Trump Republicans who signed up to be the Democrats dupes in the show trial, have committed political suicide. The Republican Party is now even more wedded to MAGA and America First than before the J6 committee started.

4. The power of the legacy media (and to a lesser extent social media) to control the narrative declines as more and more people become aware of their bias. Despite the attempts by the media and the Democrats (but I repat myself) to try to make Cassidy Hutchinson into a brave whistle-blower, that unravelled within 24 hrs because the majority are now aware of the antics of the spin-merchants.

5. The whole thing has been a disaster for the Democrats. They pinned their hopes for the mid-terms on finally getting Trump and, now that that's failed, they have nothing left.

Dear members of the 51st State, get used to it.

Most Australians are far too sensible.
Foxy,
But what about those many more who live here & call themselves Australian but aren't ?

While you are fussing over foreign politicians, a Guardian Essential poll has shown a "broad based dissatisfaction" with our new socialist government already.

Give up listening to sky news, a propogandist regime if that would put china as a favored news outlet.

Dear mhaze,

Wow.

Why is this all about the Democrats?

There were significant Republican figures, many hand-picked and very close to Trump, who ultimately decided to defend the Constitution, the election result, and the checks and balances in the American system of government.

My post is more about them than any political theatre or otherwise. Mind you the Republicans are far more enamoured by political theatre than the Democrats have ever been.

But people like Mike Pence, Bill Barr, Pat Cipollone can't be dismissed by people like you as never-Trumpers. They baulked at crossing that final line of insurrection and I for one am prepared to acknowledge them for it.

Riely

So, the extreme Left Guardian is now part of SkyNews, is it. Duh.

Dear Is Mise,

You claim: “Why hasn’t Trump been arrested, because the riots presided over by the Democrats were worse. Welcome”

Absolute rubbish. The Trump instigated riots were an attack on the very democracy which keeps America on some kind of even ground. If that had been stripped away then any sense of the republic standing for democracy, the rule of law, and respect for the will of the people would likely have been lost forever.

The hearings have restored in a small way my faith in American institutions and that enough people had enough regard for the process that they pushed back against a megalomaniac in Trump.

This should give most people a sense of relief and appreciation. Instead you are just pissed your man did not get up.

Steele,
Trump was never my mman.

Hi Issy,

Trump is big on guns, he has close ties to the NRA, in fact he is a member, just like the SSAA in Australia has close ties to the far right extremist NRA. Could we say you and Donald are brothers in arms?

SR asked (rather disingenuously) "Why is this all about the Democrats?"

The Democrats created this narrative that the riot was an attempted insurrection. They created the narrative that Trump was the mastermind behind the riot/insurrection. They created the notion that, therefore, Trump needed to be punished in some way for this supposed insurrection.

Now all that has fallen apart. Following the J6 hearings, it's clear there is no evidence it was an attempted insurrection, there is no evidence Trump wanted them to invade the Capitol buildings and there is no case against Trump that would stand-up in an impartial court.

The legacy and social media moguls might try to spin it otherwise, but it's clear that the American voter knows that this is all a partisan show trial and they aren't falling for it.

Consequently the entire episode is a disaster for the Democrats.

It's hardly surprising that those who fell hook, line and sinker for the pee tapes, the Steele dossier, the Russian collusion hoax, the claims that Trump was Putin's tool and the Ukraine corruption saga, would also fall for the insurrection hoax. But it just no longer flies with the American public who have seen this story before.

A couple of things:

The Democrats did not create this narrative.

Trump refused to commit to a "Peaceful Transition of Power."
He set about doing everything he could to stop Joe Biden
becoming the next US President. "We won the election, and
we won it by a landslide." "We will stop the steal."
"We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't
happen."

Former Trump aides have testified that there was no credible
evidence the 2020 election was rife with fraud.

Election officials in background states have testified about
Trump's attempts to influence them to swing the election
his way.

Others have testified how Trump pushed the Department of
Justice to intervene to investigate the election and
detailed how the former President pressured the then
Vice President Mike Pence to not certify the election result of
Joe Biden.
Trump clearly knew there were
people in that crowd who were ready and intended to be violent
and he certainly did nothing to discourage it.

As a matter of fact Trump incited rioters to attack the Capitol
with his rhetoric about a rigged election - " If you don't
fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore."
"We-re going to the Capitol."

Former aide Cassidy Hutchinson said Trump encouraged
armed rioters to storm the Capitol and even lunged at the
steering wheel in his motorcade to get to the federal building
while the attack unfolded.

The Committee will release its findings in
September. It is being thorough.

The latest PBS NewsHour Poll shows that more than half of the
American population think that the former US President should face
criminal charges for his role in the deadly insurrection that
took place at the US Capitol on Jan. 6th. The new evidence
and testimonies have revealed how much Trump and members of
his administration knew about the potential for violence..

It does not bode well that the former President embraced his
armed supporters and his unwillingness to intervene when chaos
overwhelmed the Capitol.

The blame clearly rests with the former US President - no one else.

Would that be more than half of the now 20% & falling who still bother to watch the legacy media Foxy. That would make it about 10% of the population, & falling. Not much to base election hopes on.

Foxy advises "The Democrats did not create this narrative."

As I said, it's hardly surprising that those who fell for all the Russian collusion stories also fell for the insurrection stories. Sad but not surprising.

"Former aide Cassidy Hutchinson said Trump ... even lunged at the
steering wheel in his motorcade to get to the federal building
while the attack unfolded."

She wasn't in the car. The people who were said it never happened and that they wanted to so testify at the J6 hearings. They weren't called - their truth was surplus to needs.

PBS poll? Really?

Most USians think (know?) it's a partisan exercise in points scoring.

http://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/578053-poll-majority-of-voters-say-jan-6-investigation-is-more-of-a/

Dear Hasbeen,

You are right. There is not much to build election hopes on. The US can become fascist which I see as a high probability if Trump can mobilize sufficient support to get back into office. Hilary Clinton was right to refer to the "deplorables". She was right but stupid to say it. When in a democratic country there is interference with an orderly transfer of power and it succeeds the country is no longer democratic. The traitors under Jefferson Davis fought to preserve slavery. They failed. The traitors who support Trump may succeed. We will see.

mhaze,

I never said that former aide Cassidy Hutchinson was in the
car. Read what I did say. And here's a link for you about the
incident - which did happen:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-steering-wheel-january-6-cassidy-hutchinson-testimony-mark-meadows/

And here's another link on Trump and the Russian help that he
received according to the Senate Intelligence Committee to win:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/21/senate-intel-committee-backs-finding-russia-helped-trump-win/2998433001/

Oh come on Foxy, you can't be that naive.

She wasn't in the car and therefore didn't know what happened in the car. People who were in the car say (and were prepared to testify) that she was completely wrong. Yet people like you prefer her version ie the facts don't matter.

The Senate Intelligence Committee report DIDN'T find that Russia interfered to help Trump, only that it interfered. There were ample examples of it using social media to help Hilary. The Russian aim was just to create disharmony and distrust. They succeeded with those who fell hook line and sinker for the collusion fantasies.

mhaze,

Read the two links I gave you and then tell me
that you really believe what you are posting.

I don't want to insult your intelligence by thinking
that you truly believe what you are posting.

"Yet people like you prefer her version ie the facts don't matter."

Yes Foxy I do believe what I post. For some the narrative is more important than the truth....and they can't even see it.

Even when the link you post tells you the truth ("A source close to the Secret Service confirmed to CBS News that Engel and the driver are prepared to testify under oath that neither man was physically attacked or assaulted by Trump and that the former president never lunged for the steering wheel of the vehicle" ) you can't see it.

Dear mhaze,

The only race grouping that presented a majority saying it was a partisan exercise as opposed to an independent inquiry were whites at 60%.

Blacks were 41%, Hispanics at 47% and Other just 37%.

Rather telling.

In fact white, suburban, male, baby boomers are by far the highest category of those calling this a partisan exercise.

How many of those boxes do you tick?

As to Cassidy Hutchinson the fact that 26 of Trump's secret service detail erased their txts is more than a little red flag.

As is Mark Meadows, the person who relayed the story to Hutchinson, is fighting tooth and nail to avoid testifying.

But you are avoiding addressing the question of whether you regard Trump loyalists like Mike Pence, Bill Barr, Pat Cipollone as never-Trumpers?

mhaze,

There's so much on the web that you can look into
if you are really interested in the facts as you claim you
are, - especially on the various testimonies given. The facts
are there. No matter how you may try to deny them. I
simply don't understand - why you're supporting the former
US President. When his actions speak so loudly for themselves.

The Ohio Capital Journal tells us that Donald Trump has
betrayed America. that He has proven himself as a traitor.
And that he did this not for a foreign influence or a
lucrative business deal - but that he betrayed America
for his own ego.

" He betrayed America because his clinical narcissism has not
allowed him to accept the factual reality that he lost the
2020 election. He broke his oath to preserve and defend the
Constitution and betrayed America and every American to serve
himself."

"The ham-fisted irony of it is that by doing so Donald Trump
has rendered himself the most notable loser in American
history. This will be his legacy. The rest of the horrifying
story will all be footnotes."

There's more at:

http://www.ohiocapitaljournal.com/2021/01/09/donald-trump-is-a-traitor/

And, as David F pointed out earlier - American traitors who support
fascism - people like the white supremacists, the Proud Boys,
the people that Trump finds "Special People,"
may continue to support him. We shall have to wait and see.

Dear Is Mise,

You claim: “Steele, Trump was never my mman(sic).”

The following quotes from you would beg to differ.

"Trump For President."
Posted by Is Mise, Tuesday, 27 August 2019 2:28:28 PM

"Trump will be re-elected."
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 7 October 2019 2:37:40 PM

"As I said last Presidential Election, Trump will win."
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 1 February 2020 7:04:07 PM

"Trump will be re-elected, nothing surer."
Posted by Is Mise, Wednesday, 3 June 2020 10:56:40 AM

And finally:

"Trump will not be impeached and you can bet on that."
Posted by Is Mise, Saturday, 9 January 2021 10:43:45 AM

Yet he was impeached, twice.

If you are going to jump off the bandwagon you really need to make a better fist of it and not get run over by the wheels.

Steele

And I was wrong on all counts, seems you were sucked in by flippancy.

Sr wrote: "The only race grouping that presented a majority..."

What race has got to do with it is unclear - except that SR doesn't like being shown that the Dems are losing the propaganda war and is scratching around trying to find a way to absolve his hurt. Pretty fun. Heh! but don't dare call SR racist.

SR, rather cryptically wrote: "But you are avoiding addressing the question of whether you regard Trump loyalists like Mike Pence, Bill Barr, Pat Cipollone as never-Trumpers?" It seems I'm avoiding a question that was never asked!

Clearly they aren't never-Trumpers. Equally they aren't insurrectionists. Equally they haven't suggested that J6 was an insurrection.

It's clear there is no evidence it was an attempted insurrection.
There is no evidence the people entered the Capitol building with the aim of forcibly overthrowing the government.
There is no evidence Trump wanted them to invade the Capitol buildings.
There is no evidence he wanted a violent overthrow of the government.
There is no case against Trump that would stand-up in an impartial court.

Foxy keeps telling me there's plenty on the WWW that supports the insurrection fable - and there is. After all this was the left's main chance to final slay the Trump beast. They failed - again. Trump remains the most popular politician in the country and controls the GOP. At this point, if he decides to run in 2024 he'll almost certainly get the nomination. The problem for Foxy is that she sees all this stuff that supports the J6 narrative because she only looks at her favoured progressive sites and therefore can't understand that most USians know this is a show trial.

A show trial?

Hardly:

http://brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2022/07/22/should-donald-trump-be-prosecuted/

Political historian and commentator David Rothkopf shows
how Trump will be judged by history:

http://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250228833/traitor

Brookings again Foxy? Did you forget that the last time you ran to them for comfort I had to point out how biased they are? 96% of their political donations go to the Dems.

So treating them like an impartial observer is just bonkers.

Again, you can find myriad articles on the web telling you what you want to hear.

What you can't find is proof that the people entering the Capitol building were intent on overthrowing the government.
What you can't find is proof that Trump sent them to the Capitol building with the intent on overthrowing the government.
Hell you can't even find proof that Trump wanted them to enter the Capitol building.

But, as we've seen over the years, lack of evidence doesn't matter when those with Trump Derangement Syndrome allow it to govern their thinking.

SR,

This entire Democratically run congressional star chamber has yet to find a smoking gun or a shred of evidence that shows that Trump deliberately instructed the protesters to storm the citadel and nothing that will ensure a criminal conviction it is in effect a re-run of the attempt to impeach him.

This of course opens up all the democratic congressmen who made the call to arms prior to the BLM riots to a GOP star chamber after November.

mhaze,

It's not a question of what I can't find. It's a question
of what you don't want to see. I lived and worked in the
United States for close to ten years. My children were born
there. I am familiar with the country's Institutions of Learning
and its reputable news sources. However you seem to brush
aside what you don't want to hear as "fake news," and claim
there is no evidence. When in fact there's plenty of evidence.

The story we know so far is so outrageous and disturbing that
Trump has met every necessary standard to define his behaviour
as traitorous.

I have no control over what you choose to believe. However I do
find it disturbing to say the least that you continue to
support a man who in my opinion presents the greatest threat
the US faces. He's committed the greatest most damaging
betrayal of his country and people in the history of the
country. I find it beyond belief that you support him.

mhaze,

BTW:

Brookings is one of the most influential think tanks
in the US. It's also ranked by congressional staff
and journalists as the most influential and first in
credibility.

http://britannica.com/topic/Brookings_Institution

Oooops. Here's the link again:

http://britannica.com/topic/Brookings-Institution

The Strange death of Europe by Douglas Murray can be applied to Australia also !

Dear mhaze,

You simpered: “What race has got to do with it is unclear ... Pretty fun. Heh! but don't dare call SR racist.”

You are a flog aren't you mate.

It was your very link which differentiated between sex, age and ethnicity at the top three in their matrix of results. But as soon as someone refers to it they are a racist?

How utterly idiotic.

If this is an issue for you don't post polls which highlight those distinctions. Full stop!

As to the term insurrection how on earth do you conclude there wasn't an insurrection on Jan 6th?

The definition is pretty straight forward: “An insurrection is “an act or instance of rising in revolt, rebellion, or resistance against civil authority or an established government.”” dictionary.com

January 6th was the day when the election was to be certified at the Capitol, the seat of government, and there was a violent act of revolt against this going ahead.

Trump organised a rally specifically on this date. Trump wanted to go with his followers to Capitol Hill saying in his speech: ““We’re going to the Capitol,” ... “We’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.” “

So yes there is clear evidence it was an insurrection.

There is clear evidence the people entered the Capitol building in an act of “revolt, rebellion, or resistance against civil authority or an established government.”

There is clear evidence that Trump's incendiary language about the “need to take back our country” would likely have incited followers to invade the Capitol buildings.

Following that there is clear, direct and self stated evidence he wanted them to revolt, rebel and resist the civil authority.

Finally you claim: “There is no case against Trump that would stand-up in an impartial court.” Of course there is but just as Trump pre-empted this election with claims it would be stolen months before it was ran you are now indicating he wouldn't get a fair trial.

Dear Steele,

I doubt if you're going to get through. Trump supporters are
beyond logic and reason. Presenting facts and evidence is
a waste of time - as I'm finding out.

Trump Derangement Syndrome? That's a cliche - an attempt at
gaslighting - "You're the one who's crazy." It's weak. Not much
of a weapon.

Anyway, Thanks for raising this topic for discussion.
I've learned a great deal from it.
I look forward to our next discussion.
Enjoy your week-end.

SR,

By your wide definition, every protest against the government could be called an insurrection. The protest outside the Capitol building was entirely legal, and the invasion of the Capitol building was illegal but there is no evidence that it was anything other than a spur-of-the-moment loss of control by some over-enthusiastic idiots.

The industrial-sized fishing expedition by congress has shown nothing more.

SM,

"nothing that will ensure a criminal conviction (of Dangerous Doctor Donald)". is this another kiss of legal death from you, like your claim that 'Cry Baby' Porter had nothing to worry about.

America is different to Australia, where here the likes of The Donald would be tared and feathered, then run out of town, where as in America he's likely to win the top job again.

Paul,

How about the Green Pedophile that you claimed hadn't been convicted? Or the child rapist Green that stood for Parliament, or the Homophobic green councillor that will face court for assault? Or your wrong call on Pell? What about cry baby bum bandit?

I challenge you to show me one tiny piece of evidence showing that he instructed his followers to storm the Capitol building otherwise you are just bullsh1ting again.

The reality is that while the democrats are trying to trash Trump they are only playing to those that hate him anyway.

Foxy wrote: "I lived and worked in the
United States for close to ten years. My children were born
there. I am familiar with the country's Institutions of Learning
and its reputable news sources."

Let me remind all that this same Foxy, so very familiar with the US and its institutions, was forced to admit not so long ago that she completely misunderstood how the electoral college worked. Of coarse, having learned that she was wrong about it didn't change her conclusions about the electoral college but then...well it is Foxy.

Foxy wrote: However you seem to brush
aside what you don't want to hear as "fake news,"".

Well despite putting the words "fake news" in quotes, I didn't use those words. There is no fake news, just wrong interpretations.

Foxy wrote: " When in fact there's plenty of evidence."

And yet you haven't been able to show ANY such evidence. Come on Foxy, show us one piece of eviddence that those who entered the Capitol building did so to overthrow democracy. Remember, assertion isn't evidence.

Foxy wrote: I find it beyond belief that you support him."

Yes. I get it. It reflects your lack of understanding about what MAGA and America First means for ordinary USians.

SR whined "It was your very link which differentiated between sex, age and ethnicity at the top three in their matrix of results."

There's a world of difference between the poll noting the views of the various groups and your attempts to discredit the majority view based upon the minority view of the various races. You won't understand it, but there is a world of difference.

Your definition of insurrection is so wide as to be effectively useless. If applied then every BLM riot was an insurrection. The Seattle CHOP affair was an insurrection. Every act of civil disobedience is an insurrection.

But of coarse you are wrong. The dictionary definition ISN'T the legal definition. No one, NO ONE has yet been found guilty of insurrection. I'll leave you to ponder why.

" you are now indicating he wouldn't get a fair trial."

There remains a chance he'll be charged in Washington DC. If so, he won't ger a fair trial. It'll then get appealed to a higher, non-DC court, and be laughed out of court. (Think Pell).

This whole thing is just a witch-hunt.
The way they went after Roger Stone, Peter Navarro and Steve Bannon shows that Domocrats want to use lawfare against Trumps associates, even if they weren't involved in January 6.
They just want to find a way to keep Trump from running in 2024.
They will soon all get a taste of their own when Republicans win back the House and Senate in November and Trump will probably prosecute all of them if he gets back in in 2024.
I suspect a few may retire from politics by then.

Capital Hill belongs to the citizens not the politicians anyway, - and Democrats had provocateurs egging on the protesters and security let them in.
Also Democrats are known for electoral fraud, dead people voting and immigrants voting and others being bussed around to vote multiple times.
The only person harmed was one of the protestors US Air Force veteran Ashli Babbit who was shot by security.
Others died of natural causes and some police committed suicide sometime afterwards which is kind of suss.
http://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/us/politics/jan-6-capitol-deaths.html

Biden has tested positive for Covid again, no doubt it's a Paxlovid rebound case.
The Paxlovid anti-viral only seems work for a few days helping to get a negative test result then you test positive again, but are then mostly asymptomatic.
- That means you're positive again and spreading the virus to others unknowingly because you aren't showing symptoms.
- Seems like it's a great cash cow / pyramid scheme to sell big pharmas Covid snake-oil.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/us-president-joe-biden-tests-positive-for-covid-19-again-says-white-house-20220731-p5b5yc.html

From the great Scott Adams....

"According to CNN, America is the sort of country in which citizens will bring loaded firearms to any sort of occasion except for attempted overthrows of their own government."

They're quite happy to supply and bring the guns to overthrow other countries governments.
They'll even create and forment the civil unrest in the first instance when it suits them.
If their country was hypothetically overthrown by the people for being a tyrannical government,
- then those people already have a right under the constitution to do so,
- and America would only be getting back what it does to others;

- So who even cares -

Dear mhaze,

You deflected with:

“There's a world of difference between the poll noting the views of the various groups and your attempts to discredit the majority view based upon the minority view of the various races. You won't understand it, but there is a world of difference.”

Pigs arse.

Firstly your link is 10 bloody months out of date. Pretty typical fare from you.

Here is a more recent one:

“A majority (57%) said Trump is to blame a great deal or a good amount for the Capitol riot, including 92% of Democrats and 57% of independents, but just 18% of Republicans. The 57% overall figure is up slightly — and within the 4.1 percentage-point margin of error — from last December (53%).”
http://www.npr.org/2022/07/21/1112546450/a-majority-thinks-trump-is-to-blame-for-jan-6-but-wont-face-charges-poll-finds

Secondly in your poll 68% of the respondents were white while they only make up less than 58% of the American population.

To the definition of insurrection. The US Federal code states:

“Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.”
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

The history of the Insurrection Act of 1807 is instructive too:

“The Insurrection Act has been invoked throughout American history. In the 19th century, it was invoked during conflicts with Native Americans. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, it was invoked during labor conflicts. Later in the 20th century, it was used to enforce federally mandated desegregation,[11] with Presidents Dwight D. Eisenhower and John F. Kennedy invoking the Act in opposition to the affected states' political leaders to enforce court-ordered desegregation.”
Wikipedia.

Cont..

Cont..

As to the BLM protests:

“"Responding to interest from President Donald J. Trump, White House aides drafted a proclamation last year to invoke the Insurrection Act in case Mr. Trump moved to take the extraordinary step of deploying active-duty troops in Washington to quell the protests that followed the killing of George Floyd, two senior Trump administration officials said. The aides drafted the proclamation on June 1, 2020, during a heated debate inside the administration over how to respond to the protests," The New York Times reported Friday.”
http://www.salon.com/2021/06/26/trump-aides-prepared-insurrection-act-order-against-blm-protests-report_partner/

If it walks, talks and squawks like a duck then it is a duck, in this case an insurrection by every definition.

SR,

A drowning man grabbing a straw is never a good look.

The polls were asking different questions. Wow they came to different results. Only someone as perplexed by numbers as SR would be surprised.

If it was an insurrection why was no one so charged.

As to bias in the DC justice system....

Robert Smigel charged for trespassing in the Capitol building. He's a member of the staff of Stephen Colbert, a reliable mouth-piece for the Democrats. All charges dropped.

Pamela Hempill charged for trespassing in the Capitol building on 6/1. She's a grandmother and citizen journalist trying to cover the Trump rally. But not a reliable mouth-piece for the left. Consequently she got two months in prison.

Dear mhaze,

Mate your whole house in made of straw.

Here is an ABC poll taken mid-June of THIS year.

Question: "Do you think the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack is or is not conducting a fair and impartial investigation?

Total
Is conducting a fair and impartial investigation 60%
Is not conducting a fair and impartial investigation 38%
Skipped 2%

http://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2022-06/Topline%20ABC_Ipsos%20Poll%20June%2018%202022.pdf

I think there has been a significant swing in the attitudes of many toward the hearings which is what my original post was about.

The fact that you had to go to an 8 month old poll to try and make any sort of case otherwise is pretty telling.

Duelling polls:

53% say the hearings are biased.
54% say "It's more of a partisan exercise to gain political points."

http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/HHP_June2022_KeyResults.pdf

Check the mid-term voting intentions to see how effective the J6 hearings have been.

Oh, while we talk polls - Biden (known to his family as "the big guy") is now the most unpopular president ever according to Gallop

Dear mhaze,

Duelling polling indeed, however happy to tease apart your latest offering.

Pretty loaded questions on yours mate.

1. Do you think that the investigation and hearings on the January 6th riots set up by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi are fair or biased?
2. Do you think the investigation and hearing of the January 6th riots by a special committee of the House of Representatives brought together by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is working as an independent inquiry into what happened or is it more of a partisan exercise aimed at scoring political points?

Both directly mention Nancy Pelosi, an obviously partisan figure.

While the question in the poll I linked to asked the quite neutral question: “How closely have you been following the hearings of the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol?” It returned a 60% agreement that the committee was “conducting a fair and impartial investigation”.

Given the highly partisan responses by registered voters from each of the majors I suspect in your poll the perspectives of the independents probably bests reflects the reality.

52% of them felt Donald Trump incited the crowd to attack the US Capitol.

52% of them felt Donald Trump deliberately encouraged the Capitol riots through his words and actions.

51% thought former President Trump after the 2020 election created a polarized political environment that eventually led to the Capitol riots on January 6th.

In my original post in this thread I opined "The whole thing has been a disaster for the Democrats. They pinned their hopes for the mid-terms on finally getting Trump and, now that that's failed, they have nothing left." That was after listing all the reasons behind that conclusion.

It remains true. Even the polls SR tries to torture show it.

There was no insurrection. No one has been charged as an insurrectionist, because...and stop me if I've said this before...there was no insurrection. In a nation swimming in guns, no guns were used except by the authorities. Grandmothers who walked through the Capitol with no evil intent have been gaoled for supporting the wrong party by the obviously misnamed Democrats.

Trump remains the most popular politician in the nation...a nation now learning how costly was the Biden stolen election. People who previously disbelieved the evidence of the theft, are now aware that its true. People like Barr, who has obvious reasons to hate Trump, now say they'll vote for him if he runs. Republicans who misread the people and thought they could ride the never-Trump bandwagon are seeing their careers go down the gurgler.

Its as though Tiberius Gracchus won

Note that for a criminal trial public opinion counts for zero.

Its not a criminal trial. No council for the defence. No cross examination. No rebuttal witnesses.

Its a show trial. They've reached the conclusion and are just hoping to find some evidence. No luck so far.

There was an insurrection by any definition of the work and the fact that the courts are convicting them of rioting but setting sentences more in keeping with a charge of insurrection gives an idea of how they are conducting their workaround.

Only today a man who took a gun to the January 6th insurrection was given over 7 years in jail.

Sure there is a reluctance to explicitly use the term insurrection in some circles because to accept that such an attempt was made to usurp a duly elected president via an insurrection is a concession with a wide ranging and long lasting legacy. A stain of the country's history.

But there is little doubt that is exactly what it was and it took a bunch of Republicans to stand up against the insurrectionist former president and hold fast to the process.

It was an insurrection but no one has been charged with insurrection!

It was an insurrection with no guns used. (in a country swimming in guns)!

It was a violent insurrection led by little old ladies!

It was an insurrection where most people 'overran' the Capitol building and then took selfies!

In fact it was one of many riots that got out of control in the year of BLM but was weaponised by a party that hoped to ride it to victory. Those being charged are just collateral damage.