BD, I didnt for a moment attribute a "wholesale slaughter" comment to you. But you have to admit that the Israelis are pretty quite to bomb whole towns into sumbission, women and children included. As far as I'm concerned that's wholesale slaughter (and yes I'm aware of our activities in Iraq, and not impressed with those either).

Interesting new angle, Boaz.

>>I am a creationist but not a paid up one<<

It occurs to me to wonder what a "creationist but not a paid up one" actually believes in.

Or is it perhaps a flag of temporary convenience, a stance adopted for no other reason than to support an otherwise barren argument?

You have to admit being a "creationist but not a paid up one" does sound a little like being half pregnant, n'est-ce pas?

But do I also spy an attempt to shift the ground?

>>Do I believe in a literal ark ? Yep..I sure do.<<

Remember, Boaz, my question specifically asked whether you consider "the story of the flood, Noah, the ark etc., to be literally true?".

So we have an Ark. Do we also have a 600 year old Noah, and the whole of humankind being the fruit of his loins?

Boaz, don't be shy, tell us - is this part of the creation that you are "paid up" on?

And once again, the only reason it is of any importance at all is because you are using it to justify a position on modern-day issues in Palestine and Israel. And because of this, and only because of this, I think it is totally fair and reasonable to ask you to justify your stance.

Let us recap. Boaz, you said:

"FULFILLMENT OF PROPHECY.. If you asked 'modern cosmopolitan Israelis' they would not have a clue. If you ask a Settler they will refer more than likely to Ezekiel 37.. and the Covenant with Abraham... To gain an understanding of this, it is very neccessary to read Genesis 11 to the end.... Gen 11 is fascinating. Post flood genealogical connection from Noah to Abraham.... (focus on that line of descent)<<

If I understand this correctly, you are linking the Israeli claim to territory with Noah.

My question is, can this line of argument can be sustained, historically speaking?

So tell us, when did all this take place? In what year, so that we can follow the "covenant" through the ages in a proper, legal manner.

Boazy: "I am a creationist but not a paid up one. I don't think it would be fruitful to enter into all the specifics..."

Yes - what a cop-out!

What does it mean to be an unfinancial creationist ? Which parts of Genesis don't you subscribe to?

"our resident self styled scholars"

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is, coming from our most pretentiously self styled Islamic scholar?

Christians support Israel and the jews for a number of good reasons.

Firstly Christians respect the bible, large chunks of which seem to have Jewish people in it as characters living in Israel. They are role models for us.

Second, Christ was a Jew, and did not supersede but fulfil the scriptures; ie the scriptures about them and their relationship to God remain true.

Third, their struggle to hold to life amid a sea of enemies is easily paralleled to biblical stories and we threfore identify with their modern peril.

Fourth, modern values of tolerance and projection, whoops I mean empathy, make it a core value to overlook the collossal religious differences.

AND fifth, if a bunch of savage head-chopping maniacs were running mass murder plans as a core community value, I would choose the side of the ones who are trying to stop them. (Revolutionary France- beware!)

As for his apocalypse idea - it is 'ow you say eet, - tripe?'

Maybe the Great flood in the bible refers to climate change. The earth was covered in water except for some islands. It would be a great way to cleanse the earth and start a new cycle of life every few millenium wouldnt it. The planet may be self cleansing and regenerating. Maybe God made it that way.