So... let me be clear.

>>Gen 11 is fascinating. Post flood genealogical connection from Noah to Abraham.... (focus on that line of descent) then, focus on the Abrahamic line. V.27 is amazing..it shows how an individual "Haran" becomes a 'PLACE' (as they had families and grew, places were named after them)<<

As I understand the above, you consider the story of the flood, Noah, the ark etc., to be literally true?

Are you sure about this?

Hi Rob, Thanks for that. I see that you genuinely have an agenda of having someone predicate an "unholy" alliance between Jew/Christian, one that exists in order to fast forward to the apocalypse.

The link I gave was :

http://wwww.crivoice.org/millenium.html

This is a very lengthy discourse, which, though I'm not a Wesleyan, captures well the various viewpoints, including interpretations of the "Rapture". In particular, it discredits anyone looking for end signs.

Quite simply "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heavan, nor the Son, but only the Father." Matthew 24:36

Therefore, it is pointless engaging with our Old Testament compadres with the view to jumping ahead in history.

The website that CG directs us to, is full of signs, warnings, and predictions that are ultimately misleading. Though CG may be correct in writing it off, these views do not necessarily represent the Fundamentalist of which Rob speaks - ie. the political creature that has a distinctive Christian morality and seeks to influence the American political process.

The Christian response can only be to spread the message of the Gospel. The anticipated New Jerusalem is not a place on earth. I think by mentioning a "common enemy" in my earlier post, that Rob interpreted that as Islam. However, the common enemy is hate, prejudice, war...the arsenal of satan. An arsenal that historically has been taken up by Muslim and Christian alike.

Pericles...yes, I do. Literal, real flood, real people.

KatieO does have a good point... but also misses another one.
Yes.. our focus should be on proclaiming the Gospel, and seeing the kingdom grow! Amen x 7 to that. Anything which distracts us from this primary purpose is not helpful.

Regarding the return of Christ... indeed no one knows.. nor should we.
There is nothing but anguish to be gained by over speculating about 'this sign means such and such' or.."this IS the fulfillment of Revelation such and such.. aah....this is one of the cups of wrath etc"

Not knowing 'when' is one thing, but recognizing trends which MAY suggest a closeness is not errant in my view. Closeness might be a year or a 1000 yrs..thats not the point.

Here are the 3 major interpretations of Rev in diagram form.
http://home.att.net/~thestoneofhelp/three-interpretations.htm
PreMillenial
Amillenial
PostMillenial.

Mine is 'PAN' Millenial.. it will all pan out ok in the end.

Personally, I do see connections now with fulfilments of OT prophecies which I view as having a dual fulfillment in some cases.
Mainly concerning Israels return to the land.
Even if Christians sat around doing absolutely nothing to help Jews return to Israel, if it is going to happen in Gods providential scheme of things....it will happen. So I don't see any need to characterize any such assistance as 'un'holy.

If one takes a 'human rights' view of the world, sure.. there is fault on every side. But then, human rights were 'invented' after most of the squabbles for territory were settled in the West, but NOT in other places. So HR is irrelevant to most non western conflicts.

Just one more point.. in view of Katies post. (for which I'm appreciative)

Her emphasis on the Gospel and not on 'looking forward in history' ... ok.. in regard to the 'when' of the Lords coming I agree.
We have ample examples of people who have predicted fearlessly "The second coming will be on such and such a date" Millerites being one mob, Jehovah's witnesses being another. In the end... all look stupid.

At the same time, being watchful, and expectant, and considering if there are fulfillments of prophecy such as in Revelation, is certainly not an invalid exercise. It depends a bit on how one views the Revelation prophecies, but given that a person may hold (as I do) that they have a 'future from the time of being revealed' application.. which is not a long shot at all with revelation speaking about a New Jerusalem, New Heavens and New Earth etc....the Millenial reign and the winding up of history, then to be on the lookout for an 'AntiChrist' and all that goes along with it/him, again, is quite valid.

Going further than being watchful, to the point of saying "The End is Nigh" (thanx CJ) and it is Nigh 'within x yrs, or on such and such a date,' is clearly unbiblical to me.

If we lose the centrality of the Salvation of man in Christ, and the redeeming grace of the Gospel, the newness of life and transformed will of being in Him,.... then we have lost the plot.

Hey Kaite, there is a whole section on rapture ready that discusses the role of politics and recommends that christians vote republican. A lot of the arguments on the site fit very well with BD's arguments (eg be watchful but dont try to predict when). BD, you have a problem with Muslims trying to spread islam, but you think its ok for you to try to spread the gospel and increase the kingdom. That's the very height of hypocrisy! As for christians actively helping the jewish people oust the palestinians so that god's word would be fulfilled, I consider that to be very unholy. If the jews were meant to return to israel, then by all means let them, but dont condone wholesale slaughter to make this happen. Anyone that supports that is no different to the various aggressor countries around the world that we have problems with. And to say that its ok because god condones it, WELL! Then everything in the Koran must be ok too because it is condoned by the same god.

Boazy: "If we lose the centrality of the Salvation of man in Christ, and the redeeming grace of the Gospel, the newness of life and transformed will of being in Him,.... then we have lost the plot."

It's apparent that some Christians "have lost the plot", particularly those with millennial leanings like our Boazy apparently has.

CG - I agree completely with your last post.