shonky, a typical racists statement by you, "Considering that Lidia Thorpe is more British than aboriginal" Provide evidence? If Lidia Thorpe identifies as aboriginal, then she is aboriginal. What do you identify as?

Yuyutsu, I contend that the Australian flag in its present form is disrespectful of aboriginal Australian's. To give pride of place on our flag to a foreign flag, aka Union Jack, which for many symbolises murder and genocide. Is that how you unite all people, As I said flags are often used for the wrong reasons. There is no requirement that anyone has to do anything in respect to the Australian flag, that is just a demand from the rabid right. Why do you want to impose this loyalty provision, when no such provision exists.

If a far right government was to gain power in Germany, entirely possible, and that government issues an edict that the Nazi swastika is to be incorporated into the national German flag as a sign of past German greatness, how should Germany's 120,000 Jews react. They would be "disloyal" would they not, if they failed to respect and honour the national flag. What's your take on that?

shadowminister,

What a toxic, bitter little tosser you constantly show yourself to be.

Thorpe left school at 14 and had her first child at 17 but has managed to endure and become a powerful voice for Victorian aboriginal communities.

She comes from a long line of powerful aboriginal women and for you to say her aboriginality is just a convenience shows how utterly bereft of empathy you are.

"Her grandmother, Alma Thorpe, set up the state's first Aboriginal health service. Ms Thorpe's great-grandmother Edna Brown started the Aboriginal Funeral Fund in the 1960s, when many Aboriginals were buried as paupers. Her mother Marjorie Thorpe was a co-commissioner of the National Inquiry into the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Children from the families."

The Age.

Dear Paul,

My simple answer to you is that I do not believe in flags.

You ask: "Is that how you unite all people", but I never claimed that I want to unite anyone with anyone. We are already infinitely united in God, so where is the need and how possibly could we be "more united"?

You ask: "Why do you want to impose this loyalty provision", but have I not made it clear enough already that I don't want to impose loyalty of any kind?

You ask me about my feelings if the Nazi Swastika was incorporated in the national German flag. Well firstly as a Hindu, the Swastika is considered an auspicious symbol (which the Nazis stole for their evil purposes, but that does not make it theirs!), but that's not the point: why should Germans have and respect a flag to begin with, same for Australians!

If you need to have it explained to you why we should be loyal to a country like Australia (I don't say all countries), then it seems to me that I would be wasting my time: you will never be convinced. And, sadly, I don't believe that you deserve to live here. You came here by choice. Perhaps you should revisit the reasons you came here. You might be able to answer your own question - or not. Probably not. But, I can't help you to feel what I feel, or what other patriotic Australians feel. I think that you must be a very sad character, and I feel sorry for you because I don't think that you are a bad person.

Hi Paul1405
"then there is another who wants to belt people with poles whilst wrapping themselves in flags."

I acknowledged that he could have made a statement saying
"I don't particularly like standing in front of this flag, as it represents many things that as Australian's we shouldn't be proud of."
- As long as you don't say that crap on Anzac Day, then it's ok to have your opinion in an effort to create the change you want.

I've got a bit of Indigenous in me, and I even support things that are better for the environment.

If you think I was being a bit harsh, then I don't really think I was.
Having your ass paddled with the flag and flagpole for disrespecting it when you're supposed to work towards unity and lead by example is some kind of fair justice.

On the other hand maybe I was too harsh.
- Because he doesn't deserve to stand in front of our flag as a leader in the first place,
(And that includes the flaws the flag represents)

Dear Ttbn,

I thank you for your honest response which comes from the heart.

I find Australia a wonderful country with wonderful people.

My issues have nothing to do with this country or its people - I only have issues with the organisation which claims to run this continent and its surrounding islands, and the main issue is that this organisation forces itself and its laws on anyone who happens to live here (including those whose only "fault" was to be born here). That is violence and I cannot be proud to belong or loyal to a violent organisation that forces itself on others.

You say that I came here by choice.

This is technically correct.

However, I escaped from another country which has the same problem and no place on this planet is free from the bane of similar organisations (in fact, these organisations are now discussing how to exert their control over space, the moon and Mars as well). My conscience could not allow me to be loyal to the country I was born in, nor to any other country (presently all, sadly) so long as they practice this violence, yet the laws of physics require that in order to live I must have a body and that this body be parked somewhere on this planet.

Claiming that I do not deserve to live here, is equivalent to saying that I do not deserve to live anywhere on earth (and soon not even elsewhere in this solar system). What has the world come to where conscientious people who are unwilling to partake in violence, are told that they do not deserve to live.