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The Forum > General Discussion > Power prices under Labor.

Power prices under Labor.

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With Electrical power prices slated to increase dramatically in the near future largely due to the growth of renewable energy and the closure of cheap coal-fired generation, I wonder how far Labor intends to go before voters revolt against the resulting crash in living standards?
Posted by shadowminister, Friday, 27 May 2022 11:32:21 AM
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Can't you discuss the issue without resorting to lies, Shadow?

Electrical power prices are slated to increase dramatically in the near future because of rising gas and coal prices. The growth of renewable energy is needed to bring prices down.
Posted by Aidan, Friday, 27 May 2022 12:58:48 PM
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Thanks for the thread ShadowMinister- very important issue.
Sadly people may be living in bed next winter due to high heating costs- electricity prices are already increasing in some states. I've seen some with huge bills. I liked the principle behind the Labor insulation scheme- but some companies mainly startups appear to have cut corners- these companies should have been prosecuted. I've heard stories of tradies putting their foot in the door of aged people in rentals and "installing insulation by force" and then acting in an intimidating manner when they refuse to pay the difference.

We don't have an energy problem but an energy storage problem..
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 27 May 2022 1:23:36 PM
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Prices will head north, and would have done so had the Coalition been returned, because they also championed this zero emissions rubbish.

Net Zero is an utterly destructive policy that is only possible in the imaginations of globalist climate enthusiasts. Wind and sun, even heavily subsidised as it is (at our cost) will never provide cheap power, nor will it provide reliable power.

Apart from being the most left wing Liberal party in Australia's history, for six years under Morrison, the Liberals failed to explain the importance of reliable energy to the economy both for domestic power and for export revenues. Instead, they mimicked Labor, and lost. There is going to be a lot more lost by all of us over the next three, possibly six, years. And the situation would have been the same if the Coalition had survived. A Dutton-led and rejuvenated Liberal party, minus all the lefties now thankfully gone - plus Simon Birmingham when his time comes next election (it will be vital for us to pick our Senators individually below the line; bugger what the party wants) is our only hope for the future.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 27 May 2022 1:43:16 PM
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shadowminister,

Up to your deeply dishonest postings once more I see. The energy regulator says these rises are due to the increase in prices for coal and particularly gas. This is down to the abject failure of the Coalition government to insist on a proportion of our gas is reserved for domestic use at a capped price. This is what they did in the US, one of the most avowedly capitalist nations in the world. Alternatively we could have gone with a decent mining tax which would have given us a fund to subsidise natural gas and coal prices to Australians.

All of which you would have protested vehemently you little Gina muppet.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 27 May 2022 7:21:49 PM
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It might be an interesting exercise to see if there is even enough concentrated lithium reserves in the world to supply the energy storage needs- yes there is lithium in seawater as I remember- but is it easy to extract- will it force up the price of electricity- it seems the answer must be yes- at least temporarily. And it seems an awful waste to throw away the billion cars on unproven infrastructure- perhaps certain groups want to get us to cross the bridge- and then blow it up behind us.

If Greenies want electrical cars and solar power stations they should provide the evidence and allow the issue to be debated.

I wouldn't want an electric car- interesting technology but not practical in my view.

Perhaps atmospheric CO2 mining and a high temp reactor or biodiesel will be more successful and will let us keep most of the infrastructure that has been developed over the last one hundred years. Though biodiesel will probably push up world food prices. Maybe I can grow algae for petroleum in the back shed- squash it for the oil- mix in with some lye and presto- *BIODIESEL*.

I'm going to need a bigger shed.

Maybe we could grow fast growing bamboo for wood gas...
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 27 May 2022 10:47:47 PM
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Canem,
>It might be an interesting exercise to see if there is even enough concentrated lithium
>reserves in the world to supply the energy storage needs
Personally I'd find that exercise boring, but if you find it interesting then go for it.

However you should be aware that there doesn't actually need to be enough of it to supply the world's energy storage needs. There are lots of alternative ways of making batteries. Sodium (which is ultra abundant) can be used instead. Vanadium batteries (an Aussie invention) are another alternative, and researchers are trying to find a way to use iron instead (to make batteries far cheaper). There are several kinds of zinc battery, and there are ongoing efforts to improve the performance of capacitors to make them competitive with batteries in some applications. There's also the option of using hydrogen fuel cells, and in some cases the electrolyses that produce the hydrogen can double as fuel cells when electricity demand is high.

Lithium batteries do have the advantage of being light and self contained, but there are enough alternatives for your concern to be unwarranted - you can debate it if you want to but don't expect Greenies to waste much time on this non issue.

Your view of electric cars as "not practical" suggests you're not up to speed on their development.
Posted by Aidan, Saturday, 28 May 2022 1:34:01 AM
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It was interesting how Taylor and Morrison hid the bad news before the election that retail electricity prices were about to rise substantially. Australians can expect even more shocks caused by almost 10 years of Coalition incompetence. Labor will have a difficult time repairing the damage to the economy caused by the drunken economic behaviour of the Morrison mob.

A TRILLION DOLLARS OF LIBERAL DEBT!
Posted by Paul1405, Saturday, 28 May 2022 6:32:36 AM
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We don't have an energy problem but an energy storage problem..
Canem Malum,
precisely and, a mentality problem also !
Posted by Indyvidual, Saturday, 28 May 2022 7:29:39 AM
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Albanese has said he wants to ‘end the climate wars’ and create a ‘renewable energy superpower’. Inevitably, that means we’re going to be buying solar panels from China and there will be a greater frequency of blackouts.

In the meantime, the suckers are nodding their thick heads at the idea of electric cars and other rich persons' toys, oblivious to the fact that they are being conned by billionaires after even more of the suckers money. The climate/renewable energy/anti-fossil fuel racket is just a glorified version of Nigerians on the phone robbing old ladies.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 28 May 2022 8:58:47 AM
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Without reliable baseload power, Australia will lose any hope of an independent manufacturing base and the low income earners will be the first to suffer.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 28 May 2022 9:03:28 AM
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On the matter of electric cars: Australia stopped subsidising its own car industry because it wasn’t viable. Now, we are subsidising the electric cars of foreign manufacturers: around $3,000 for cars under $70k, I believe.

Duh!
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 28 May 2022 9:31:08 AM
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ttbn,
>Albanese has said he wants to ‘end the climate wars’ and create a ‘renewable energy superpower’. Inevitably,
>that means we’re going to be buying solar panels from China and there will be a greater frequency of blackouts.

Despite your political views, I'm surprised to hear you make a claim so stupid. Don't you live in the state that has Australia's highest proportion of solar and wind power and has had Australia's most reliable electricity supply since we got the first big battery?

>Without reliable baseload power, Australia will lose any hope of an independent
>manufacturing base and the low income earners will be the first to suffer.

Exactly which manufacturers do you think would be adversely affected by none of the power coming from dedicated baseload generators, and why?
Posted by Aidan, Saturday, 28 May 2022 10:46:59 AM
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The West has really shot itself in the foot this time.
The whole western world will pay for this sanctions policy by the United States.

You know it's ok when they sanctioned all these other countries, we just ignored it because we weren't impacted by what we we're doing, but now here we are.

No more oil and gas for Europe unless you pay in ruble
No more grain to put in your mouths and no more fertiliser to grow your own.

Western countries are now coming crawling back like an ex-gilfriend.
I'm sorry I miss you, I'm not sure I can live without you.

Bulgaria reconsidering ruble gas payments
http://www.rt.com/business/556020-bulgaria-reconsidering-ruble-gas-payments/
(Not sure why it matters when Germany is still getting Russian oil and gas, all this is just about payment in Roubles and a war the west itself effectively started in 2014)

U.S. to ease a few economic sanctions against Venezuela
http://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/17/us-ease-venezuela-sanctions-maduro-00033082

We're sorry we made you eat cats and dogs, lets be friends again...
Then we got this:

A fertilizer shortage, worsened by war in Ukraine, is driving up global food prices and scarcity
http://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/06/a-fertilizer-shortage-worsened-by-war-in-ukraine-is-driving-up-global-food-prices-and-scarcity.html
- Apparently the world only has 10 weeks of wheat supply...

China's export growth slows sharply as zero-COVID rules hit economy
http://www.dw.com/en/chinas-export-growth-slows-sharply-as-zero-covid-rules-hit-economy/a-61731968
- No more cheap goods from China, major supply issues

Where have all the truck parts gone?
http://www.ccjdigital.com/maintenance/article/15066337/truck-parts-among-supply-chain-casualties
Further supply chain issues

Understanding the science behind the neon shortage
http://www.advancedsciencenews.com/understanding-the-science-behind-the-neon-shortage/
No more semiconductor chips.

We thought we could just sanction others and use global trade as a weapon and there would be no consequences.
Now we are copping what we've done to others.
Putin and Xi are playing chess.

- Checkmate -
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 28 May 2022 2:58:24 PM
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Furthermore, if China wants to take Taiwan, there's not much anyone can do about it.

If the US tries to overstretch itself into Chinese waters for a full scale war, all their ships will be sitting on the ocean floor like the Moskva.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 28 May 2022 3:02:35 PM
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We're not "subsidising" foreign electric car manufacturers. We're just reducing the high tariffs we put on them earlier - a big difference.

The original aim of the high tariffs was to delay the introduction of electric cars in order to maximise the ongoing tax revenue from fuel purchases and maintain corporate profits.

As well as being the global dumping ground for high emission petrol cars that don't meet certain international standards we've been left behind as a market for their ultimate replacement.
Posted by rache, Sunday, 29 May 2022 12:59:12 AM
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Aidan, SR,

While the cost of coal and gas prices has increased, the rising % of renewables has put pressure on the prices continually and with coal-fired generators due to shut in the near term, the costs are due for further sharp increases.

Note that wholesale prices in Victoria nearly doubled when Hazelwood closed and the wholesale prices don't reflect the subsidies that are added to consumer power bills later. If renewables are so cheap then there is no justification for the huge subsidies.

SR, Gas reservations for the local market would increase availability but the cost of gas is pegged to the international prices.

Both of you need to do your homework before posting bollocks.
Posted by shadowminister, Sunday, 29 May 2022 4:55:04 AM
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First comment to make in this thread is, and it is very important,
the change to electric cars is being made because the car companies
took notice of oil company official announcements that they were
planning to exit the oil industry !
That did not make much news but it was made to the AGM of Royal
Dutch Shell in 2017. BP has changed its motto to Beyond Petroleum.

Second comment lithium is not needed for electrical network batteries
as Nickle Iron batteries are very reliable and will go forever.
They can be maintained easily, but require more space, so what, not
as much as solar farms.

The big problem with wind and solar is the trick;
It is true that wind and solar produces very cheap electricity.
The trick is to get it 24/365 100% of the time. A normal maintenance
and breakdown excess is needed but 100% uptime is wx dependant with
wind and solar.
The only solution around that is to have multiple times sites and generation.
Also it requires a much more complex and more capable grid system.
One that can send power from where she blows to where its needed.
The CSIRO suggests a rebuilt grid at a cost of One Trillion Dollars.
Hmm, I'll bet Albo didn't put that into his spreadsheet.
Also I do not think that included Western Australia.
It would be easier to make it work if the west was included.
As we have seen, Germany and Britain are too small for W&S.
It is all a lot harder than the greenies tell us.
Posted by Bazz, Sunday, 29 May 2022 3:31:25 PM
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Hindenburg on wheels

An Electric Bus Caught Fire After Battery Explosion in Paris
http://youtu.be/5r-yN8SugWM

Electric bus bursts into flames, sets nearby vehicles on fire in China
http://youtu.be/T71cVhxG_v4
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 29 May 2022 7:00:29 PM
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Sorry guys this thread dropped off my list.

Indyvidual said-

We don't have an energy problem but an energy storage problem..
Canem Malum,
precisely and, a mentality problem also !

Answer- I think you're probably right Indyvidual.

Aiden said-

Canem,
>It might be an interesting exercise to see if there is even enough concentrated lithium
>reserves in the world to supply the energy storage needs
Personally I'd find that exercise boring, but if you find it interesting then go for it.

However you should be aware that there doesn't actually need to be enough of it to supply the world's energy storage needs. There are lots of alternative ways of making batteries. Sodium (which is ultra abundant) can be used instead. Vanadium batteries (an Aussie invention) are another alternative, and researchers are trying to find a way to use iron instead (to make batteries far cheaper). There are several kinds of zinc battery, and there are ongoing efforts to improve the performance of capacitors to make them competitive with batteries in some applications. There's also the option of using hydrogen fuel cells, and in some cases the electrolyses that produce the hydrogen can double as fuel cells when electricity demand is high.

Lithium batteries do have the advantage of being light and self contained, but there are enough alternatives for your concern to be unwarranted - you can debate it if you want to but don't expect Greenies to waste much time on this non issue.

Your view of electric cars as "not practical" suggests you're not up to speed on their development.

Answer- Aiden said he studied Civil Engineering- should understand mechanical, electrical systems and the implications to how this affects national/global infrastructure. Though even engineers are known to give biased advise they attempt some assertion basis. Challenges brewing between "the petroleum industry" and allies on one side and the allies of the "so called green industry" on the other.

Professor Sadoway says- to make a battery it's best to take one electrode from each of the extreme low and extreme high electronegativity sides of the periodic table.
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 30 May 2022 5:16:09 AM
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If you can also ensure the electrodes are made from a material high in the periodic table then they will be lighter. The lightness of batteries (or fuel) is critical in electric vehicles both for overall vehicle weight and for range as is the energy density (liquid hydrogen is 1/4 the energy/ volume density of petrol). The Tesla was significantly redesigned in order to account for these factors. The Mass Number of Lithium is 3 and Sodium is 11 on the table. I keep going back to the Wikipedia Energy Density Matrices for energy/volume and energy/weight data in these discussions (there's also a Wikipedia Extended Matrix).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

Aside from nuclear- hydrocarbons have some of the highest energy densities in terms of mass and volume compared with batteries of any sort. Physics puts a limit on how dense batteries can be due partly due to the relatively complex structure. Both have a place depending on the application- both mobile and grid applications have demanding requirements.

"A plutonium rod could provide the energy for lifetime driving" due to extremely high nuclear energy mass and volume density- at scale it could be relatively cheap- but there are other considerations.

Energy Storage- theoretical limits

Uranium 80M MJ/kg
Thorium 73M MJ/kg
Plutonium 2M MJ/kg in Radioisotope TE Geni

Hydrogen 120 MJ/kg (Liquid 8.4 MJ/L Gas High 4.5 MJ/L Low 0.01 MJ/L)
Gasoline 46.4 MJ/kg 34.2 MJ/L

Lithium Ion Battery 0.8 MJ/kg 2.63 MJ/L

Supercapacitor 0.01–0.030 MJ/kg 0.006–0.06 MJ/L
Electrolytic capacitor 0.00001–0.0002 MJ/kg 0.00001–0.001 MJ/L

Hybrid systems can optimize attributes of different systems sacrificing simplicity/reliability.
To me the solution is green hydrocarbons- young technology- means high cost and increased world poverty. Essentially the problem seems to be too many people.

General I support Musk's Tesla- but a novelty- history's lessons.

I can understand that some people are desperate to solve this problem but physics is a brutal master.

Time will tell if as Aiden says "Your view of electric cars as "not practical" suggests you're not up to speed on their development."
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 30 May 2022 5:26:33 AM
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Canem,
> Professor Sadoway says- to make a battery it's best to take one electrode from each
> of the extreme low and extreme high electronegativity sides of the periodic table.

Do you know what that means? Extreme high side is top right; extreme low side is bottom left. Lithium's position at the top left means it's not desirable except where lightness is critical.

We don't have the technology to use nuclear processes for energy storage.

And yes, hydrocarbons are a pretty good store of energy. But when you consider the need for an engine to make use of that energy, and the efficiency losses in that engine, and the non-reversibility of the engine's process, a lot of their advantages over batteries disappear.

Supercapacitors have the most room for improvement, and can be charged more quickly than batteries.

> To me the solution is green hydrocarbons- young technology- means high cost and increased world poverty.
That doesn't make sense. Would you care to rephrase it?

>Essentially the problem seems to be too many people.
Which looks to me like a pathetic attempt to put it in the too hard basket. Many of the problems would still be with us if we only had half the population.

> I can understand that some people are desperate to solve this problem but physics is a brutal master.

What exactly is the problem you think physics is preventing from being solved?

>Time will tell

No, time HAS told. EVs already have the capability that some predicted would limit their use.
Posted by Aidan, Monday, 30 May 2022 11:21:17 AM
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Aidan said-

Comment 1-

Canem,
> Professor Sadoway says- to make a battery it's best to take one electrode from each
> of the extreme low and extreme high electronegativity sides of the periodic table.

Do you know what that means? Extreme high side is top right; extreme low side is bottom left. Lithium's position at the top left means it's not desirable except where lightness is critical.

Answer 1- Obviously Aiden doesn't understand what electronegativity is- and what the periodic table is??

Comment 2-

We don't have the technology to use nuclear processes for energy storage.

Answer 2-

We do in the form of nuclear fuel rods in Nuclear Reactors and Radioisotope Thermal Generators.

Comment 3-

And yes, hydrocarbons are a pretty good store of energy. But when you consider the need for an engine to make use of that energy, and the efficiency losses in that engine, and the non-reversibility of the engine's process, a lot of their advantages over batteries disappear.

Answer 3-

At least Aiden admits that hydrocarbons are a good store of energy. Maybe "some" of the advantages over liquid hydrogen disappears- the issue with energy density by volume seems pretty resistant to a solution. But yes there are issues with ICE engine efficiency losses-about 3/5 loss- but they are still offset by other advantages.

Comment 4-

Supercapacitors have the most room for improvement, and can be charged more quickly than batteries.

Answer 4-

The energy density to volume and mass and cost are the over-riding requirements in vehicle and grid storage.
Supercapacitors have three or four orders of magnitude mismatch with gasoline. They are a great product in certain applications just not in vehicles or grid storage. But yes there are experimental buses that use them- they use Maxwell supercapacitors as I understand- not sure of the range. Batteries can be charged by battery swapping if the infrastructure is available.


Comment 5-

> To me the solution is green hydrocarbons- young technology- means high cost and increased world poverty.
That doesn't make sense. Would you care to rephrase it?
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 30 May 2022 1:36:00 PM
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Answer 5-

Green hydrocarbons- for example CO2 mining and CO2 to kerosene/ gasoline technology- development has a cost that needs to be passed on to the consumer- if governments restrict options by law then it forces people to pay a higher proportion of their income to satisfy government requirements. While this is sometimes necessary- it should be done cautiously.

Comment 6-

>Essentially the problem seems to be too many people.
Which looks to me like a pathetic attempt to put it in the too hard basket. Many of the problems would still be with us if we only had half the population.

Answer 6-

There are people in the world that create solutions and there are people in the world that create problems. Sometimes whole cultures are problematic. Sometimes you have to let the problem makers find out the dangers of their actions by direct experience- but you should stay out of their way otherwise they will drag you into their sh-t storm. People use energy to build things in factories, heat/ cook/ light homes, for transport- if there were less people then the world would use less energy. Energy has undesirable outputs- the less energy used the less undesirable outputs. I'm sure Edward Bernay's Consumer Culture has caused some of the problems in the west (Bernay's was the Hebrew Psychologist that brought consumerism along with many European Psychologists to the west from Austria- he was Freud's nephew twice- once by marriage- psychology dominates the public realm even today- I'm not certain that it satisfies the Hippocratic Principle- maybe they use the Hippnocratic Principle).

I'm happy if you choose to get an electric car- I'm not happy if you want to force me to buy one.
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 30 May 2022 1:36:44 PM
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I was thinking one day about hydrocarbons and I realised that hydrocarbons are a form of trapped hydrogen in a convenient range of forms- from gas to liquid to solid.
Posted by Canem Malum, Monday, 30 May 2022 1:44:56 PM
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I would buy a Hyundai electric car tomorrow if they were not so
expensive. I could possibly buy a Chinese one at $40k + but I am
reluctant to send my money that way.
Having driven a Nissan Leaf, I am just hanging on waiting to see if
the predicted price equivalence to IC cars happens.
The problem of battery storage for a W&S network gets brushed over
without discussion.
As I see it a battery, or a number of them in different areas, has to
cope with a minimum of two or three days in a row of overcast days
with little or no wind.
That seems unlikely in an area the size of Australia, but is just
possible in QLD, NSW, VIC, TAS & SA.
However just a wind failure in three states would not be unusual.
It might only be for half a day, but the storage required is enormous.
It would most likely happen from sunset to early next morning around sunrise.
Also brushed aside is the question; so OK the batteries are flat after
a night of sunset to sunrise, where do you get the power to recharge them ?
Off the grid ? No B$%^&&dy way, it is too busy running the show !
So you either dump heavy industry users or EV chargers the next night.
All this requires CSIROs $1Trillion grid !
Does all that sound like cheap electricity ?

I think I am the only one who has asked these awkward questions.
Hasbeen, there are files you can load into your EV that go VROOM VROOM !
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 30 May 2022 2:13:58 PM
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Canem,
1. When I was in high school, we were taught electronegativity was the attraction an atom has for its, and other, electrons. They said the same when I was at uni. So if you disagree, then I suggest you post what you think it is. Then go check: ITYF you're the one whose definition is out of step with the rest of the world.

Excluding the noble gases (which have a very strong attraction to their own electrons but not to others) the top rightmost element is fluorine, which has the highest electronegativity. Oxygen has the second highest, while nitrogen and chlorine are joint third highest. Caesium has the lowest electronegativity of all the elements with stable isotopes.

2. Our abilities with nuclear processes are very limited. We aren't able to put energy in and get it back on demand, which is what people usually take "energy storage" to mean.

3. It depends on the application. For cars the advantage of batteries is that an engine (which is rather heavy) is not needed.

4. Development is going to take some time, but it is thought supercapacitors will eventually become competitive with batteries.

5. Green hydrocarbons are a long term solution. In another forty years they'll probably be the dominant fuel source for short haul aircraft. But nobody is suggesting immediately replacing the entire oil industry with synthetic hydrocarbons. Obviously we go tor the low hanging fruit first. Your "increased world poverty" claim is nothing more than a strawman.

6. It's not one group of people creating solutions and another group creating problems - often the same people do both. And where people aren't creating solutions, often it's because they're denied the opportunity to.

Obviously the problem wouldn't be as big if there were fewer people, but the undesirable outputs would still be there. A lower population is no substitute for valuing the environment far more highly.
Posted by Aidan, Tuesday, 31 May 2022 11:33:21 PM
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Armchair,
Wow, you must be really really really crap at chess - you lose a rook and you think you're checkmated, even though you've put your opponent in a far worse position.

Nobody who understood the situation thought we could just sanction others and use global trade as a weapon and there would be no consequences. Of course there are consequences. But for us the consequences are far preferable to going to war, and in the long term they're preferable to doing nothing and letting countries get away with invading and annexing their neighbours. It's important to ensure Russia and others know they can't benefit from doing so. Yes, it makes us worse of in the short term, but if we ignore it now we'll have to waste far more on military spending in the future.

____________________________________________________________________

Shadow,
Technical issues forced Hazelwood to shut years early, before the renewables to replace it were there. That led to prices abruptly increasing then gradually declining as more renewable power was installed. If the renewables are put in first, the problem is avoided.

I too used to think cheap renewables would remove the need for subsidies. What I hadn't figured on was that for existing electricity companies it's more profitable to do nothing (and charge customers more) than to add generation capacity. The subsidies (which are NOT huge so please stop claiming they are) encourage more electricity is generated from solar and wind, bringing down prices.

___________________________________________________________________________

Bazz,
IIRC the CSIRO's trillion dollar figure was for total electricity industry spending over thirty years, not just the grid cost. Transmission would account for under 10% of that.

And didn't I tell you before? The solution is a large overbuild of solar and wind generation, with the excess used to produce hydrogen. If there are prolonged dark calm conditions with high demand, some of the hydrogen can be turned back into electricity
Posted by Aidan, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 1:35:33 AM
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Hey I've got an idea to make free energy.
Anyone remember I once talked about the best battery being a dam
- The whole entire dam is a battery in that it holds stored energy

Remember I said said we should use solar panels to pump water from a smaller holding pond at the bottom of the dam back up into the dam?

I think I originally came up with this idea when I heard that WA was purging solar panel power and I thought it should be diverted to refill the dams?

- And I thought that maybe we could use Archimedes' Screw, kind of like this:

1 minute video - Archimedes' Screw
http://youtu.be/A-xPRbj88V4

If you look up the ideas such as Leonardo da Vinci perpetual motion machines, they say they cant work.
- That you can't get more energy out than you put in...
http://youtu.be/A-QgGXbDyR0

Well I came across another invention that doesn't require any power at all to pump water.
I think it's essentially a siphon.
What if you combine a dam, that can generate power from water flow, or even a water well for example but you could refill the water back up to the top without using any energy at all?
Wouldn't that mean FREE ENERGY?
Let me show you this idea, something I found on YouTube, I really wish I was some kind of engineer, I'd almost love to build it and see if it works, just for fun.

How to pump the water back up to the top, for free.
http://youtu.be/dV9B_yWgYEs

So it's completely isolated from any other kind of power be it solar, wind or water flow.
Would it work?

Would it pump water back up to the top, and then power a water wheel as it flows back down?
Anyone have any ideas?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 1:53:28 AM
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Hey Aiden,

"Wow, you must be really really really crap at chess - you lose a rook and you think you're checkmated, even though you've put your opponent in a far worse position.

Nobody who understood the situation thought we could just sanction others and use global trade as a weapon and there would be no consequences. Of course there are consequences. But for us the consequences are far preferable to going to war, and in the long term they're preferable to doing nothing and letting countries get away with invading and annexing their neighbours. It's important to ensure Russia and others know they can't benefit from doing so. Yes, it makes us worse of in the short term, but if we ignore it now we'll have to waste far more on military spending in the future."

I've made it clear time and time again that I support Russia.
I don't support sanctions as its collective punishment, and I don't support liberal intervention and overthrowing other countries.
The whole mess would've been avoided if the US didn't overthrow the country in 2014 when Yanukovych decided not to go with the EU and stuck with Russia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25162563

It could've also been avoided if the West had've made clear that Ukraine would not be permitted to join NATO and they created a similar situation such as the US has per the Monroe Doctrine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

Russia had been saying for years that Ukraine becoming a NATO country was a red line for them, but the US ignored it.
It also could've been prevented if Ukraine had've kept its part of the Minsk agreements which it didn't.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 3:22:31 AM
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[Cont.]
This war didn't start in February, it started in 2014.
Putin, didn't start it, he's trying to put an end to it.
Ukraine and it's nationalist neo-nazi's have it coming in my opinion.
- And the blood is on Victoria Nulands hands more than anyone elses.

I don't support trade and economic wars.
Finally the west will have to pay a price for its stupidity.
Trying to make war with nuclear armed members of the UN security council, are you kidding me?

It's one thing to go after smaller countries, but another to go after nuclear armed ones.
The US is now grovelling with it's tail between it's legs to Maduro to get Venezeulan oil after making them eat dogs and cats.
It even stole some oil from Yemen recently that's how desperate it is.
- And like that situation isn't the pot calling the kettle black arming the Saudi's to genocide the Yemenis.

I'm saddened it's come to this and all the loss of innocents,
We all have to pay for Americas stupidity now.

Here, have a done a women's empowerment.
http://youtu.be/KnHEk1VAyjk
Ukraine Crisis: Russian spokeman's fiery response to Sky News question
http://youtu.be/KnHEk1VAyjk

I may not be too good with economic issues but I'll give you a good run for your money on this.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 3:28:04 AM
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* Have a dose of women's empowerment, I meant.

Trying to keep Iran down, trying to keep Venezuela down, now going after Russia.
It's clear the West is in decline and trying to save it's dying petrodollar.
It doesn't export anything else except scrap metal and war.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 3:34:06 AM
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Canem,
1. When I was in high school, we were taught electronegativity was the attraction an atom has for its, and other, electrons. They said the same when I was at uni. So if you disagree, then I suggest you post what you think it is. Then go check: ITYF you're the one whose definition is out of step with the rest of the world.

Excluding the noble gases (which have a very strong attraction to their own electrons but not to others) the top rightmost element is fluorine, which has the highest electronegativity. Oxygen has the second highest, while nitrogen and chlorine are joint third highest. Caesium has the lowest electronegativity of all the elements with stable isotopes.

Answer1- Anyway one battery electrode comes from the left of the periodic table and one from the right according to Donald Sadoway. This is based on the Pauli Exclusion Principle and Electron Energy Levels and the standard number of chemical bonds by column of the periodic table eg. Li(+), Na(+), O(2-)

2. Our abilities with nuclear processes are very limited. We aren't able to put energy in and get it back on demand, which is what people usually take "energy storage" to mean.

Answer 2- It's possible to create Plutonium Rod's- as I understand- by bombarding Uranium with Helium Nuclei or similar and then concentrating the Plutonium in a Mass Spectrometer to form Plutonium Metal Ingots- fairly established technique. This can then be used in a TEG generator. This could be powered by Wind and Solar and hence would be a form of extremely dense battery storage- not sure of the efficiency. But as Aiden is no doubt aware there are three types of emissions to consider- alpha, beta, gamma- (Pu is an alpha source from memory-) as well as the random breakdown path- so there's likely to be problematic waste products.

Nuclear binding energy has a lot of potential as a "stable" storage medium- putting energy in (creating heavy elements using nuclei bombardment) and getting it back- but not on demand (in a TEG)
Posted by Canem Malum, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 5:13:06 AM
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3. It depends on the application. For cars the advantage of batteries is that an engine (which is rather heavy) is not needed.

Answer 3-

According to sites below- the Tesla engine weighs about 100 kg including the transmission/ Tesla Model Y features a 75-kWh lithium-ion battery with 4416 cells. So, it weighs 1168 lbs (530 kg). According to sites below an ICE V6 weighs 150- 225 kgs without the transmission and the most common size of a 2010 sedan tank is 18.5 gallons= 80L~ 80 kgs.
http://www.terasolartisans.com/john/notes-of-a-writers/how-much-does-a-tesla-engine-weight/
http://themotordigest.com/how-much-do-tesla-batteries-weigh/
http://mechanicbase.com/engine/car-engine-weight/
http://itstillruns.com/average-size-automobile-gas-tank-6787985.html

4. Development is going to take some time, but it is thought supercapacitors will eventually become competitive with batteries.

Answer 4- I doubt it- there seem to be limitations of physics here. Please provide better evidence here for your claims. As I've previously provided documentation from wikipedia there are orders of magnitude differences with gasoline here.

5. Green hydrocarbons are a long term solution. In another forty years they'll probably be the dominant fuel source for short haul aircraft. But nobody is suggesting immediately replacing the entire oil industry with synthetic hydrocarbons. Obviously we go tor the low hanging fruit first. Your "increased world poverty" claim is nothing more than a strawman.

Answer 5- At least Aiden admits "Green hydrocarbons are a long term solution".

6. It's not one group of people creating solutions and another group creating problems - often the same people do both. And where people aren't creating solutions, often it's because they're denied the opportunity to.

Answer6- I didn't say that the people creating solutions in one context weren't creating problems in another- but knowledgeable people make less mistakes. The comment "they're denied the opportunity to" sounds like communism.

Comment-

Obviously the problem wouldn't be as big if there were fewer people, but the undesirable outputs would still be there. A lower population is no substitute for valuing the environment far more highly.

Answer- At least Aiden agrees "the problem wouldn't be as big if there were fewer people".
Posted by Canem Malum, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 5:14:26 AM
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Got this this morning;

The process for extracting lithium from its ore is extremely energy intensive.
Lithium is around 1% of its orebody. 100 tonnes of ore has to be mined to get one tonne of lithium. In order to get the mining fleet to the orebody an pit surrounding the orebody has to be excavated. This involves stripping more dirt. Common stripping ratios are between 8-12 times the size of the orebody.
So all up around 1000 tonnes of dirt has to be mined to get one tonne of lithium.
If anyone thinks this is good for the environment or even economical they are kidding themselves.
Posted by Indyvidual, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 11:02:38 AM
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Indyvidual- Kudos.
Posted by Canem Malum, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 1:14:54 PM
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Aiden said;
And didn't I tell you before? The solution is a large overbuild of solar and wind generation, with the excess used to produce hydrogen.

No you did not mention hydrogen, but your suggestion of installing turbines a multiple of the size required but they still stop when
the wind doesn't blow. Doesn't sound very economic.
Hydrogen has its own problems. Saw a talk at U3A about the various
green, blue and black hydrogen.
Must try and get his slides, very interesting problems especially EROEI.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 3:19:02 PM
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Fuel, food and fertilizer shortages are starting to hit consumers

Iceberg Lettuce $11.99 each
Strawberries $14.99 Punnet ($60 kilo)
Blueberries $19.49 Punnet ($156 kilo)
Red Capsicum $18.99 Kilo

"A farmer wrote that the cost of his profession had 'roughly tripled' this year, with the price of fertiliser and fuel at an all-time high.
Fertiliser has gone from $1200 a ton up to $3k being cheap. You all know what fuel has done. Glysophate has gone $6/L to $13-$14."

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/eat/bloody-outrage-customers-fury-over-iga-fresh-produce-costs/news-story/1f948a068dc99716f03ba8e7bdcb4ac4

- Things are getting worse
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 9:05:57 PM
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errr, didn't check the others but I bought blueberries punnet for
$7 at Coles a couple of days ago.
Posted by Bazz, Wednesday, 1 June 2022 9:20:00 PM
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As well as the rising coal prices and failing power stations it's no wonder that prices are increasing when you have added layers of bureaucracy in its distribution.

Once upon a time the power system was a publicly owned single entity but now we have a plethora of private wholesalers, distributors, retailers and resellers - each with their own corporate structure and each seeking to make an individual profit. The Miracle of Privatisation doesn't seem to have worked yet again.

Essential utilities should be treated like the Public Health System - not for generating profit but a vital component of the economy.
Perhaps power should be re-nationalised but the reality is that it's now too late to close the gate.
Posted by rache, Thursday, 2 June 2022 12:09:33 AM
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All the worlds consumers need to stand up and demand an end to sanctions,
Its doing A LOT MORE harm to ourselves than it is to Russia.
- Putin is literally LAUGHING HIS HEAD OFF ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK.

Sanctions = A price increase that WE'RE ALL PAYING FOR.
- But Russia just earns more for less supply.
Gas up 150% since the start of the year
Oil up 90% since the start of the year
http://oilprice.com/oil-price-charts/

"As I warned in Russia Is A Major Supplier Of Oil To The U.S., Russia could potentially benefit from the sanctions on its oil exports. Although Russia hadn’t yet invaded Ukraine when I wrote that article, I warned that if it did:

“Russian sanctions would be put in place, potentially reducing the available oil supply in a tight market. If Russia could still sell all the oil it could produce to countries that refuse to abide by the sanctions, it might do well financially with an oil price spike.”

We now have data in hand to confirm that the subsequent sanctions on Russia’s oil are in fact boosting Russia’s oil revenues.

Although the U.S. has stopped buying Russian oil, the challenge remains that Russia is one of the largest global producers and exporters of oil. There is no way to completely remove Russian oil from the market without sending oil prices much higher — perhaps to $200 a barrel.

Further, as oil prices go higher it increases the appeal of Russia’s oil. Right now, China and India, for example, have tremendous incentive to buy discounted Russian oil.

In other words, it is a classic catch-22. In attempting to punish Russia by keeping its oil off the market, Russia is enjoying a net benefit of higher oil revenues."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2022/05/08/russias-oil-revenues-are-soaring/?sh=20087e894e34
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 2 June 2022 1:02:26 AM
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[Cont.]
Russia’s Export Windfall Catapults Key Trade Barometer to Record

Current-account surplus is biggest in decades thanks to export
Imports plunge as sanctions and ruble weakness cripple demand

Russia recorded the largest current-account surplus since at least 1994, as revenues from oil and gas exports surged and imports plunged after the U.S. and its allies imposed sanctions over President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

The proceeds have become a critical source of hard currency during the war, enabling authorities to pay for imports, support the economy and restore confidence in the ruble.

The surplus in the current account, the broadest measure of trade and investment flows, reached $58.2 billion last quarter, more than double the $22.5 billion reported a year earlier, the Bank of Russia said Monday.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-11/russian-current-account-surplus-surges-to-record-on-energy-sales

"Australia is on the 'precipice' of a UK-style energy crisis that could send many of its power retailers broke and fuel a surge of households unable to pay their bills, a leading expert has warned."

"We're saying to our customers 'the best way we can save you money is actually ask you to switch away'."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-01/australia-on-brink-of-energy-crisis/101115924
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 2 June 2022 1:03:18 AM
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AC,

I see that you are the self-appointed shill for the Russian invasion.

The reason that Russia has such a trade surplus is that they can't buy anything. No western factory machinery, no spare parts for most things, no computers/chips etc, and much of the world is still buying their energy products.

However, Russian exports other than oil have crashed, their arms exports have evaporated due to their poor performance on the battlefield, and the EU which previously purchased 50% of Russian oil is cutting back 75% of this in the next few months.

All this time while Russia's economy is winding down, the cost of the war is ramping up. In exchange for sluggish gains in the East and retreats in the north and south, Russia is continuing to lose thousands of men and huge quantities of armoured vehicles, artillery and aircraft most of which they cannot replace. They have raised the enlistment age ceiling from 40 to 50 and are now sending obsolete T64s to the front.

Meanwhile, the Ukrainians are receiving $bns of new weapons in more and more powerful formats, and I hear rumours that this might even include M1 Abrams tanks from the US's huge reserves.

Russia's blockade of the Ukrainian exports is having an effect on the world but the effect is on the non-aligned 3rd world and Russia is likely to lose far more friends than it gains.
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 2 June 2022 12:58:04 PM
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There doesn't appear to be any shortage of funding for weapons to Ukraine but there's not enough for local spending on infrastructure, Health, Importing Education professionals with sense etc !
Posted by Indyvidual, Thursday, 2 June 2022 4:12:19 PM
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Now with Labor's Trillion dollar debt, instead of balancing the budget, they want to reach 2 Trillion.
Posted by shadowminister, Thursday, 2 June 2022 5:24:03 PM
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Hey shadowminister,
"Now with Labor's Trillion dollar debt, instead of balancing the budget, they want to reach 2 Trillion."

Yeah that's fairly certain.
But I'm not a shill for the Russian 'invasion'
At least no more than you're a shill for collective western stupidity.
The west started the war in 2014.

http://www.rt.com/business/555940-imf-global-economy-warning/

>>The global economy is facing “its biggest test since the Second World War”, the managing director of the International Monetary Fund said at the start of the World Economic Forum in Davos.

Kristalina Georgieva said the conflict in Ukraine has “compounded the Covid-19 pandemic – a crisis upon a crisis – devastating lives, dragging down growth, and pushing up inflation.”

“Add to this sharply increased volatility in financial markets and the continuing threat of climate change, and we face a potential confluence of calamities,” she warned.<<

http://www.rt.com/business/556076-sugar-shortage-world-food-crisis/

>>The impact of the Covid-19 pandemic, which seriously undermined global supply chains, has been dramatically aggravated by the crisis in Ukraine and the subsequent sanctions imposed on Russia. The conflict between the two major grain exporters has disrupted global supplies.

A number of countries have moved to limit exports of other key commodities, putting global food security under threat, while risking further increases in the prices of agricultural products.<<

Maybe when 100 million people die of starvation and the Western worlds economies are completely destroyed, and a million businesses go bust, and everyone is living in tents then people like yourself might realise the folly in your poor leaps of logic.

Go buy a gun and shoot yourself in both feet.
- You may as well just get it over with right now.

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/gas-and-power-outages-to-sweep-australia-as-cold-snap-deepens-energy-crisis/news-story/3322404fe6f1f2de3133a0a206ecfdeb

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/ruinous-oil-and-gas-prices-could-lead-australia-into-recession/news-story/2bdb8b4b9b6152332baef62d44fc8751

"Australian gas prices are traditionally in the $3Gj range. Yesterday they hit $382Gj for a brief period as the wholesale market failed. We are now seeing the gas regulator fix prices in other states at $40Gj."
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 3 June 2022 12:43:25 AM
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Tell me shadowminister,

DID I NOT TELL YOU ALL THIS YEARS AGO?

Lets have a quick look through my history.

Friday, 23 September 2016 8:35:37 AM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=7472&page=0#230004

Friday, 20 July 2018 4:31:37 PM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=8358#261834

Oh look, I found the video from 2013 showing the Ukrainian Parliament talking about the west trying to start a civil war in Ukraine - BEFORE THE MAIDAN, the old discussion I had with Canem Malum.
I'll add that to my YouTube favorites so I don't lose it again.
- Just so I can remind everyone where this mess started.

Go ahead and read all my messages on that thread.
- Or just type 'Ukraine' into my message history.

While you're there search for 'overthrow' as well.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=17652#312119

How many bloody years have I been posting this damn article for?

Overthrowing other people’s governments: The Master List
'Instances of the United States overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War.'

http://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list

Tell me, when has my position changed?
It hasn't has it, so I'm not the shill am I, you are.
I've kept my principles and stood up for what I believe SINCE DAY 1.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 3 June 2022 1:07:21 AM
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http://www.reuters.com/business/russian-economic-growth-slows-35-yy-q1-rosstat-2022-05-18/

The Russian economy expanded by 3.5% year-on-year in the first quarter of 2022 after growing 5% in the previous quarter, data from federal statistics service Rosstat showed on Wednesday.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-31/two-narratives-on-australias-economy-gdp/101112632
If you combine all of these GDP ingredients you can see why many believe the economy is stalling — or growing, but only ever so slightly.
We’ll find out the exact figure on Wednesday morning from the Australian Bureau of Statistics.
But, in the meantime, AMP says the “March quarter GDP is expected to be flat", while the NAB has the economy growing at 0.1 per cent for the quarter.
Investment bank JP Morgan has the top growth forecast so far of 0.5 per cent.
The crucial point here is that Australia’s economy is neither strong nor on any kind of sustainable growth trajectory.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-21/recession-warning-bond-market-economic-downturn/101001956

>>Whether the US economy falls into recession or not, Australia has its own problems to deal with.
The Reserve Bank recently forecast that if it were to lift rates by 2 per cent, property prices could drop by a massive 15 per cent.
A fall of that magnitude would certainly make consumers feel a lot poorer – causing them to cut back on spending, and therefore slowing down the economy.
"I think there's a pretty decent chance of Australia going into recession," said Angus Coote, co-founder of Jamieson Coote Bonds.
"One of the things that certainly worries me about the Australian economy is that we've got a tremendous amount of people that wisely took out fixed rate loans at very low interest rates, sub-2 per cent.<<

Told you, one way or another, with Teal candidates and Business Council of Australia wanting to lift immigration to 220,000 year, everyone will either lose their houses or be living in tents soon.
Russia's food and energy costs won't be a problem for them.
So tell me, have you taken that gun and blown the feet off your legs yet?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 3 June 2022 1:26:05 AM
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http://www.neighborhoodnewsstudio.com/?wix-vod-video-id=c084efc41afc4cd79061033b4baae9e3&wix-vod-comp-id=comp-kx9xr0bs

Long video, but very informative, (might take a few seconds to load)
Looks like George is claiming the credit for stopping the WHO from gaining full control over our countries,
I think there's also so info on Coronavirus origin and details on the strain in there too, but I dozed off a bit watching it.

I think he's going to spend the next week looking at Assange,
I'm thinking about signing up for full video access.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 3 June 2022 1:42:24 AM
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Armchair Critic- From memory your information related to
Bezos and the Washington Post and Amazon Web Services government contracts
and the CIA
and Victoria Nuland and Hilary Clinton
and the US Embassy in Ukraine and database application "Civil Society II" and the coup
and the radar controlled missile launcher
and MH370
and Euromaiden
and Azov Battalion
and the deposing and flight of the President and his replacement

Not sure if this helps
Posted by Canem Malum, Friday, 3 June 2022 2:39:13 AM
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Yep, here's the video from the Ukraine Parliament in 2013 prior to the Maidan
http://youtu.be/y9hOl8TuBUM

–––––VIDEO TRANSCRIPT–––––
Deputy Oleg Tsarov has the word

Honourable Colleagues
Honourable Vladimir Vasiljevitch

In my role as a representative of the Ukrainian people…
…activists of the public organisation "Volya" turned to me…
…providing clear evidence…
…that within our territory…
…with support and direct participation
…of the US Embassy in Kiev…
…the "TechCamp" project is realised…
…under which preparations are being made for a civil war in Ukraine.

The "TechCamp" project prepares specialists for information warfare…
…and the discrediting of state institutions using modern media…
…potential revolutionaries…
…for organising protests…
… and the toppling of the State Order.

The project is currently overseen and under the responsibility…
…of the US ambassador to Ukraine…
…Geoffrey R. Pyatt.

After the conversation with the organisation "Volya“…
… I have learned…
…that they succeeded to access Facilities in the project "TechCamp“…
…disguising as a team of IT specialists.

To their surprise, briefings on peculiarities of modern media were held.

American instructors explained how social networks and Internet technologies…
…can be used for targeted manipulation of public opinion…
…as well as to activate protest potential…
…to provoke violent unrest on the territory of Ukraine…
…Radicalisation of the population and triggering of infighting.

American instructors show examples of successful use of social networks…
…used to organise protests
…in Egypt, Tunisia and Libya.

"TechCamp" representatives currently hold conferences throughout Ukraine.

A total of five events have been held so far.

About 300 people were trained as operatives, which are now active throughout Ukraine.

The last conference "TechCamp" took place on 14 and 15 November 2013…
…in the Heart of Kiev on the territory of the US Embassy!

You tell me which country in the world would allow…
…a NGO to operate out of the &#8203; US Embassy?

This is disrespectful to the Ukrainian government, and against the Ukrainian People!

I appeal to the Constitutional Authorities of Ukraine with the following question:

Is it conceivable that representatives of the US Embassy…
…which organise the "TechCamp" Conferences…
…misuse their diplomatic mission?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 3 June 2022 4:50:19 AM
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[Cont.]

–– Let him speak ––

Carry On

UN Resolution of 21 December 1965 regulates…
…inadmissibility of interference in the internal affairs of a state…
…to protect its independence and its sovereignty…
…in accordance with paragraphs one, two and five.

I ask you to consider this as an official beseech…
…to pursue an investigation of this case
Thank You!

- - - - - -

- And here's the video from 2012 US Embassy Tech Camp - Civil Society 2.0

"The U.S. Embassy hosted TechCamp Kyiv at Master Klass Cultural Center in Kyiv, Ukraine on September 12 and 13. TechCamp Kyiv marks the 14th TechCamp supporting Secretary Clinton's Civil Society 2.0, an initiative which builds the digital literacy of civil society organizations around the world."

I told you all, the US overthrew the country in 2014
And I also told you all many times, I don't support the US overthrows, look at Libya... [rolls eyes]

Thanks Canem Malum
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 3 June 2022 4:53:44 AM
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The world cant just cut off Russian supply of oil and gas
- Unless you want to see US$200 a barrel and everyone goes broke...
They will just sell it to India
- And India will refine it into other oil products
and sell those products back to Europe...
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 3 June 2022 4:55:39 AM
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Russia completely checkmated the West
No-one in the Wests think tanks thought that Russia would find a work around
- which they did, by creating the dual payment system
And the bank trades the currencies on the international money market

Now everyone that needs Russian goods will use this new system
Whether it be paying the US bond holders - Open dual Ruble and dollar account
Buying grain, buying oil and gas, buying fertilizer, - Open dual Ruble and Euro accounts
They will all go around the swift system
The West shot themselves in the foot.
Checkmate Russia, Game Over West.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 3 June 2022 5:14:47 AM
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AC,

You really seem to swallow the Russian propaganda whole. This new payment system devised by the Russians has one major flaw in that it is not accepted by any western banks, so while it is maybe great for selling Russian goods into China, it is worthless otherwise. Even then no planes can fly out of Russia, and any ships going to Russia cannot get insurance.

In 3 months when the 6-month notice on the withdrawal of shipping insurance expires, no ship loading goods or oil will be able to be insured which severely reduces the possibilities for Russia to sell its oil. The Russian economy is set to shrink by between 10% and 15% by the end of 2022 and will continue to shrink as its isolation increases. These sanctions are slated to stay in place until Russia withdraws from the whole of Ukraine including Crimea.

In the interim, Russia continues to lose thousands of men and huge amounts of hardware while the west pours in many $bns of weapons into the Ukranian army.
Posted by shadowminister, Friday, 3 June 2022 11:26:22 AM
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Bazz,
>No you did not mention hydrogen, but your suggestion of installing turbines a multiple
>of the size required but they still stop when the wind doesn't blow.
It would seldom be calm enough for them to stop completely. But if and when they do, the hydrogen production can go into reverse - some electrolysers can act as fuel cells, turning hydrogen back into electricity.

>Doesn't sound very economic.
Obviously how economic it is depends on the cost of electrolysers and the real interest rate. But with fuel prices this high, heavy investment in renewables makes great economic sense.

>Hydrogen has its own problems. Saw a talk at U3A about the various
>green, blue and black hydrogen.
Only green hydrogen has much of a future. Blue is too expensive. Black is not only too polluting but also too expensive at the moment. There may be a bit of grey (i.e. hydrogen produced as a byproduct of industrial processes) but it's more likely to decline than increase.

>Must try and get his slides, very interesting problems especially EROEI.
I hope you're not still clinging to the delusion that everything depends on meeting sone arbitrary EROEI threshold!

__________________________________________________________________________

Indyvidual,
It depends on where the lithium's from. In Bolivia they just use sultans - it's easy to separate lithium chloride from sodium chloride as the former floats and the latter sinks.
But yes, when lithium prices are high it's economic to mine allow concentrations. The same is true for many other minerals. In many cases there are other minerals that can be extracted from the same ore; I don't know how often that applies to lithium.
Posted by Aidan, Friday, 3 June 2022 6:13:18 PM
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Having read through this thread, I’m glad that we have the wood fired traction engine to do the plowing and the recently installed, by the eldest son, steam driven alternator to charge batteries
He’s also working on a steam driven generator to supply lighting without the use of batteries.
We have open fires for heating and a renewable wood supply.
Some renewables work well!!
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 3 June 2022 6:55:44 PM
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Issy, at least you're comfortable in your cave. Cheers I'm coming to you from God's Waiting Room. I'm only on my second scooter after dinner, so I'm still almost sensible.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 3 June 2022 7:43:11 PM
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Issy, at least you're comfortable in your cave. Cheers I'm coming to you from God's Waiting Room. I'm only on my second scooner after dinner, so I'm still almost sensible.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 3 June 2022 7:48:51 PM
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Don't forget the old WW11 wood gas generator Is Mise, they would do a great job of driving a Fergy. They may not be the most powerful tractor, but are much faster than steam traction engines.

My son has built a Sterling engine powered pump. Our river is 25 meters below the plane in it's normal flow, & it is another 125 meters across the black soil flat to the dam. He is only getting 10 liters a minute, but the thing works & can be scaled up, or duplicated as required. That would be enough for a veggy plot down there.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 3 June 2022 11:09:39 PM
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Now watch the greens blame the failure at Liddel because it is a
coal station.
Well, it is a transformer failure and wind and solar probably have
many more transformers per Megawatt than steam stations.
They would in fact be choppers and as such much less reliable.

The whole system has been weakened to such an extent that one
transformer can throw the country into a political tizz.
After all that money has been thrown at W&S this is what we get !
Posted by Bazz, Friday, 3 June 2022 11:44:23 PM
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Hey shadowminister,

Looks like I forgot to add the video link for Tech Camp run out of the US Embassy in Kiev, I'll add it now.
http://youtu.be/bpIoBUDuL3U
"The U.S. Embassy hosted TechCamp Kyiv at Master Klass Cultural Center in Kyiv, Ukraine on September 12 and 13. TechCamp Kyiv marks the 14th TechCamp supporting Secretary Clinton's Civil Society 2.0, an initiative which builds the digital literacy of civil society organizations around the world."
There's only 4000 views on that video.
You're now one of less than 5000 everyday people who know the real unmistakable truth about Ukraine.
So have I proven adequately that the US caused this damn mess in Ukraine?
I'll add the other video again to MAKE CERTAIN that you do.
November 2013 Pre-Maidan - Ukraine Deputy Has Proof of USA Staging Civil War in Ukraine
http://youtu.be/y9hOl8TuBUM
Turn closed captions on or read the description.

It's fairly straightforward if you watch both those videos and read the descriptions.
Both of which I posted here in the forum 4 YEARS AGO.

Do you understand that I hold the same damn position in opposition to US government overthrows I've always had?

"This new payment system devised by the Russians has one major flaw in that it is not accepted by any western banks..."

http://sports.yahoo.com/20-european-natural-gas-buyers-121005100.html
"Twenty European natural gas buyers have opened accounts with Gazprombank so they can pay in rubles, a person close to Kremlin-controlled energy giant Gazprom told Bloomberg.
A further 14 companies have requested the paperwork to set up accounts with Gazprombank, the anonymous source said in an article published on Thursday."

As for your other arguments, go here, skip to 45min mark, watch this important video and get yourself up to speed.
Then you'll have the same info I've got.
http://youtu.be/COl-b6pD214

Next, look at the damn map, does it look like Ukraine are winning to you?
http://liveuamap.com/

Now watch this and you can see all the Ukrainian military units who are quitting or going AWOL.
http://youtu.be/qeFSGUPemzc
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 4 June 2022 4:51:31 AM
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Hey Canem malum,
I'm not sure I spoke about everything of that list you added earlier,
- But I do remember telling you that I had serious doubts Russia shot down MH-17.

Even Lavrov mentions it and refutes it in this video I watched a couple days ago.
http://youtu.be/ecpRrep0twE
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 4 June 2022 4:56:00 AM
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Now some of you post some good info, but just in general, and in relation to quality of news,
- I just want to say you're not going to get any wiser watching the dog-shite they spoon feed you to keep you dumb.
If I watched the news you all watch I'd be just as much of a mushroom.
- Kept in the dark and fed nothing but BS, that's what our news does.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 4 June 2022 5:02:49 AM
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Oh and by the way shadowminister,
"These sanctions are slated to stay in place until Russia withdraws from the whole of Ukraine including Crimea."

If you think that's going to happen then you're dreaming.
Russia will nuke everything before they give up Crimea.
- IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, so stop living in the past -

In Russia, there's only 2 outcomes.
Either Russia wins, or there will be a nuclear war.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 4 June 2022 5:20:47 AM
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AC,

For starters, only a nut job would think that Russia could win a nuclear war. It would simply cease to exist. As for Russia winning the war, Russia is advancing at a glacial pace whilst burning through huge numbers of troops and materiel that cannot be replaced all the time committing 1000s of war crimes. Russia has lost more men and equipment than it did in 10 years in Afghanistan before it fled.

Secondly, you have not offered a jot of proof that the US had anything to do with the overthrow of the Russian puppet government in Ukraine.

Thirdly, Gazprombank is one of the very few banks that haven't yet been blocked from the swift system, and only deals in oil and gas. The few EU businesses still buying gas pay in Euros and the bank changes it into Rubles. This is not a new system in any form and businesses other than petrochemical cannot sell their products to the wealthiest economies.

Russian small businesses are going bankrupt at a prodigious rate.
Posted by shadowminister, Saturday, 4 June 2022 6:30:35 AM
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Ukraine Admits Heavy Losses in DONBAS
http://youtu.be/0RRdxyIYOjk

Wont be long till there's a full military collapse in the Ukrainian army.
Or a coup against Zelensky, by the Generals who don't want to see any more casualties in their ranks, or disunity from the wives, sisters and mothers, who don't want to see their husbands, brothers and sons die for a part of the country that doesn't even want to be Ukrainian.

Draw a line from Kharkiv to Odessa, everything east of this is Russian speaking people.

Zelensky is a finger puppet of the West, and Kolomoisky who hates Putin,
Zelensky fights for western interests, who will fight to the last Ukrainian to try to weaken Putin, who I might add is making more money from Russia exports with higher oil and gas prices.

Russia has already found new buyers in Asia for most of the oil that EU has been trying to limit, so they won't be getting it back.

The West has truly screwed itself over in all of this.

I paid $32 for a bottle of organic weed killer yesterday at Bunnings (usually under $7 I'm told), Round-up was $57 a bottle, the cheapest. Not to mention the rising cost of food and electricity, ON TOP of the increased cost of house rentals. I'll have to move soon as where I live the government is planning to build sports stadiums for the 2032 Olympics. My car used to cost $50 to fill, now I get half a tank for the same money. We're all paying for this Western stupidity, our government couldn't even look after flood victims but gives $100 million+ in lethal aid to Ukraine.
Maybe when the Greenies and their will to shut down coal power and cause the coming rolling blackouts people might actually start paying attention to path of foolishness and all this Western stupidity, and the grovelling 'diverse' Government will no doubt increase immigration to add to the mess.

This country is going to hell in a handbasket, real quick.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 4 June 2022 6:45:11 AM
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Errr, did the Ukraine attack Russia ?
did Russia attack Ukraine ?
Hmmmm
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 4 June 2022 10:35:20 AM
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Hey Bazz,
The Neo-Nazi government the US installed after it overthrew the country in 2014 tried to outlaw the Russian language.
Crimea overwhelmingly voted for independence, and then voted to become part of the Russian federation.
The new government also attacked the Russian speaking people in the Donbass region (Luhansk and Donetsk).
These people became known as the 'Seperatists' and also wished to be independent from the new puppet government.
The government then spent the last 8 years attacking and indiscriminately killing these people in the Donbass region.
Over 14,000 had been killed (This is a low number based only on OSCE estimates and the real number is much higher) over those 8 years until February this year when Putin recognised their independence, at which point Russia then invaded to defend these people, and to demilitarize and de-nazify the country.
Also, Ukraine's wishes to join NATO played a part in Russia's decision to do so, as it crossed a red line for Russia and it was the US who overthrew the country and has been providing military support and training to the country since 2014.
Putin didn't start the war, he's acted to finish it.
Are you one of the people who think the war started in 2022 and not back in 2014?
Are you one of the people that ignores the thousands of people who've been killed by the Ukrainian government during the last 8 years?
These people have a right under the UN right to self-determination to secede from Ukraine, (but the US and Western countries never recognised it) just as the citizens of Crimea also had every right to do so.
Anything else?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 4 June 2022 11:06:41 AM
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You can't really blame them for wanting to secede, after they saw 160 people burned alive in the Odessa Trade building by members of Svoboda, Right sector and other nationalistic slavic Ukrainians on a god-damn rampage.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 4 June 2022 11:51:46 AM
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AC,

Your assumption that Russian speaking Ukrainians want to join Russia is either naive or simply stupid. In Mykolayiv, the Russian speaking citizens have fought the Russian army to a standstill and are now advancing against Kherson.

While Ukrainians are taking heavy casualties so are the Russians. Of their original standing force of 2700 tanks, they have lost more than 1000 and a similar number of armoured personnel carriers and about 20 000 men and a large No of helicopters and a couple of dozen planes.

While Russia cannot replace the huge quantities of Materiel, the West with its manufacturing capability rough 50x that of Russia will keep the Ukrainians stocked with state of the art weapons. The next batches include long-range rocket systems predator drones, patriot anti-aircraft systems and more stealthy anti-ship missiles.

Russia has a short time to capture land before the Ukrainians are better armed than they are and the clock is ticking. Today I see that the Russians were pushed out of most Severo Donetsk with heavy losses.
Posted by shadowminister, Sunday, 5 June 2022 9:54:54 AM
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I take it you didn't watch this one I mentioned earlier?

'As for your other arguments, go here, skip to 45min mark, watch this important video and get yourself up to speed.
Then you'll have the same info I've got.'
http://youtu.be/COl-b6pD214

"Secondly, you have not offered a jot of proof that the US had anything to do with the overthrow of the Russian puppet government in Ukraine."

I take it you also didn't watch these 2 videos either?
http://youtu.be/y9hOl8TuBUM
http://youtu.be/bpIoBUDuL3U

Read the closed captions / read the video descriptions
All you're doing is is proving how dumb you are by doubling down on stupid.

Why do you think Biden is saying this?
https://nypost.com/2022/06/03/biden-says-ukraine-might-have-to-give-russia-land/
TAIL-BETWEEN-LEGS

"The next batches include long-range rocket systems predator drones, patriot anti-aircraft systems and more stealthy anti-ship missiles."

You mean all 4 long-range rocket systems, which have been dialled back to medium range because Putin said he will retaliate against America if their cities are hit?

- Four Systems mate, that's it with maybe 8 more for Britain and France-

European economies will be destroyed and tens of millions of people will starve without grain and fertilizer. Putin guarantees the safety of ships leaving Ukraine ports with grain, but there's thousands of soviet era sea mines there that he says Ukraine has to clean up first, they can't ship through Belarus, because of sanctions.

http://www.rt.com/news/556578-ukrainians-report-sympathizers-chatbot/
http://www.rt.com/news/556577-kiev-accused-mass-kidnappings/
http://www.rt.com/russia/556544-staged-footage-action-ukraine/

The US is paying the cost of Ukrainian government and the cost of soldiers and defense contractors, most of the stuff they are getting is old junk.

http://www.rt.com/russia/556583-ukraine-zelensky-lukashenko-poland/

Zelensky is owned by Kolomoisky,
Kolomoiskys younger sister is Larissa Chertok
Larissa Chertok is related to Gregoire Chertok
- Who works for Rothschild, who's 'old money' rules Europe.

Just keep watching the mainstream media and stay dumb, like I care.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 5 June 2022 11:30:46 AM
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If the news you watch actually did journalism,
Then I wouldn't have to tell you whats actually going on shadowminister.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 5 June 2022 11:37:13 AM
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DID I NOT TELL YOU ALL THIS YEARS AGO?
Armchair Critic,
Is that a Putin quote from several years ago ?
Posted by Indyvidual, Sunday, 5 June 2022 12:45:48 PM
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This is supposed to be about power prices, why not start your own
thread about Ukraine. It deserves its own.
Posted by Bazz, Sunday, 5 June 2022 1:18:48 PM
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This is supposed to be about power prices
Bazz,
Aren't they all blaming the Ukraine crisis on these increases ?
Posted by Indyvidual, Sunday, 5 June 2022 3:44:51 PM
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No, I have been warning of this for years, hi !
This whole problem is much older than 100 days.
The refusal to allow gas drilling in Victoria goes back years.
Similar to Narrabri but they only relented on that a couple of years
ago if I remember correctly.
They stopped oil search in the Bight only recently, 2 years ago ?
Never mind, the oil companies are getting ready to quit anyway.
When it finally sinks in that w&s won't do the job there will be a
scramble to get something--anything going.
They have destroyed the closed coal plants which will be considered
criminal when the crunch comes. I hope they do not blow up Liddel
when it closes next year.
If it closed today we would be in trouble, price at the moment in
NSW is $516.08 a megawatt/hr. That is what we are paying right now.
Wind is 16% and coal is 71% and the difference is coming from QLD.
NSW is generating 8617 and demand is 9467 Mwatt.
VIC, NSW are short but for Tas QLD & SA having some spare.
Earlier today SA, NSW, VIC & even TAS were relying on QLD.
That is interesting, SA is paying other states $25 to take the power.
You can see why the power bills are on the way up.
Posted by Bazz, Sunday, 5 June 2022 4:47:09 PM
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Hey Bazz,

"This is supposed to be about power prices, why not start your own
thread about Ukraine. It deserves its own."

Yeah that's fair, but nobody ever listens to what I say anyway, and then I'd have to respond to more people arguing with me, and as Indy says all this is blamed on Ukraine.

http://www.publicaccountant.com.au/news/energy-company-collapse-will-hurt-small-business-says-employer-association

"Electricity prices have likewise exploded as the global coal price inflates generators’ fuel costs in NSW and Queensland. Power futures have doubled over the past year and for NSW and Queensland are well above the highs of 2017-19. The war in Ukraine is the biggest factor at play."

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jun/02/world-of-pain-warnings-of-gas-shortages-amid-soaring-power-prices-add-to-australias-energy-woes

"Nudging $1000 per megawatt-hour in the National Electricity Market this evening"

http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/eastern-states-gas-crisis-validates-was-domestic-gas-policy-11414760

"WA’s domestic gas reservation policy may have been controversial when it was introduced in 2006, but it’s hard to argue against the wisdom of it now."

- Government incompetence, Poor planning -

I argued years ago that the only way to make Australian exports more competitive was to lower energy, transport or wage costs. (noting that lowering wage costs wouldn't be a good path) I tried to come up with ideas for housing, (relocatable homes built in factory production lines) I tried to come up with ideas for education (full online curriculum for all grades) I tried to come up with better ideas to increase employment.

Now look where we are, high energy costs, high cost of housing, shortage of teachers, mass inflation, businesses going broke etc.

I tried to come up with ideas and I'm a nobody, whats that say about the competence of government, and their stupid green policies?
- Which they still carry on with and keep promoting more immigration...

Do you all realise we've placed this embargo on ourselves?
- It's not like some other country cut off our supply.
The west has cut its own nose off to spite it's face.
- All for a country that the West interfered with and overthrew.

What am I supposed to say?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 5 June 2022 6:53:27 PM
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Russia Inflicts Heavy Losses on Ukraine, West in Private Discussions for Face Saving Off-Ramp
http://youtu.be/jyY9qxtngEg
Posted by Armchair Critic, Sunday, 5 June 2022 7:35:30 PM
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Do you all want to know what I think is most interesting thing about the above link I shared?

It's the fact that one single person, in front of their pc at home in their loungeroom,
can produce news content that is 100 times better than the mainstream media news;
with a fancy news studio, well dressed presenters with their hair stylists and make-up artists
- and a whole team of people behind them.

What does that say about the low quality crap that the rest of you lot just can't get enough of?
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 6 June 2022 10:23:18 AM
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AC,

Firstly nothing you have provided is viable evidence by any measure.

The talks to enable an off-ramp is to allow Russia to exit the war without Russia being totally humiliated.

Ukraine has turned Severo Donetsk (SD)into a killing ground. Russia has already shelled most of the city into rubble and civilians have been evacuated either west or in the bunkers of the factory on the river.

Lysychansk on the west bank of the river is on high ground overlooking SD. When the Russians took the East of SD, they found themselves with no cover and in perfect range of the Ukrainian artillery on the hill over the river. After a day of endless barrages and massive casualties, the Russians fled into the forests.

The Russians are not surrounding Lysychansk, because all the bridges over the huge river are down and the last two times they tried to ford it they lost scores of vehicles and hundreds of men.

The Russians are running out of tanks and men as evidenced by the tanks being replaced with 1960s T62 and the age for signing up raised to 50 with men refusing to go back to Ukraine.

The Russian economy is winding down and protests are growing in spite of the vicious crackdowns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBEbykecqRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka6N55wWY7U
Posted by shadowminister, Monday, 6 June 2022 11:09:03 AM
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Yeah ok, that's Biden says they will have to give up territory
Lets see how it plays out
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 6 June 2022 12:07:40 PM
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Do you actually ask yourself why Russia hasn't used this?
http://youtu.be/L_iEXyqItDw
Or why they haven't bombed every single bridge on the Dnipro river and cut the eastern side of the country off from the west?
They are trying not to harm innocent civillians, do you know why?
- Because they are all Russian speaking people who live there.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 6 June 2022 12:20:04 PM
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Russia shelled the city of SD to the point where they could not count the bodies of Russian speaking Ukrainians. The same for Mariupol.

The video you posted was of the American Mother of all bombs which weighed 14tons. The Russian one is of a similar size and needs to be carried by a large aircraft which would be shot down.
Posted by shadowminister, Monday, 6 June 2022 1:52:56 PM
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Hey shadowminister,
Look I'm not going to do back and forth with you.
Ukraine's fighting capacity is seriously degrading and in certain areas it is collapsing.
So why don't I just say nothing more about Ukraine for the next 2 weeks, and then we'll see where we're at.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 6 June 2022 4:49:40 PM
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AC,

I only respond when you post BS.

From the conflict map, it looks as though Russia is going backwards on all fronts and has now been pushed out of Severo Donestk. If anything, it looks more like the Russian army is culminating.
Posted by shadowminister, Tuesday, 7 June 2022 5:26:57 AM
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Hey shadowminister,

"I only respond when you post BS.

From the conflict map, it looks as though Russia is going backwards on all fronts and has now been pushed out of Severo Donestk. If anything, it looks more like the Russian army is culminating."

Yes that's fair, I play by the same rules.
They haven't been pushed out, just back a little with the counter offensive.
I could certainly add more info I got today, but I'd rather keep my word.
I haven't taken offense to anything you've said, and I hope you haven't taken me the wrong way either.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 8 June 2022 3:45:25 AM
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Hi AC,

What you don't realise is the Ukrainians are about to unleash their secret weapon! shonkyminister is about to ride in on his trusty steed, "Ned" (short for Ned Kelley) his trusty sword in hand, then those Russian Cossacks will feel the thrust of shonky's cold steel! That will set em' running, all the way back to Moscow! I say remember Balaclava! But this time instead of the 600, it will only be shonky on "Ned" his trusty steed. I have written a short poem to commemorate shonky's mighty deed.

Half a meter, half a meter,
Half a meter onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode shonky.
‘Forward, shonky!
Charge for the guns!’ he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode shonky.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 8 June 2022 7:02:33 AM
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I suggest every one frame their second quarter 2022 electricity bill, & hang it on the wall. Then do the same with each second quarter power bill each year.

Perhaps a box of tissues should be mounted alongside to dry the tears I'm sure will flow when receiving the next couple of years "GREEN" Labor power bills.

I did this recently with my first power bill received after buying this place. A little happy nostalgia to see the $215 1992 bill, against the $880 of the current one, when now there are 3 less people living here. We certainly have a lot to thank Peter Beattie for.
Posted by Hasbeen, Wednesday, 8 June 2022 9:48:58 AM
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Hassy,

With LNP government inflation your bill should now be $956, like you are $76 better off today than you were in 1992. Frame that bill.

BTW Hassy; what were you paying for you spats and straw hat back in 1922, four and sixpence halfpenny me thinks. Bet you're paying a lot more now days, to be the well dressed man-about-town as I'm sure you are.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 8 June 2022 10:30:18 AM
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I've heard talk that the price of oil mite keep rising a lot more yet, we might see US $200 barrel, or over $3 a litre for fuel yet.

Not sure this is right video,
But it's interesting to hear what he has to say about things going forward.

Runaway Inflation Is About To Collapse The US Economy w/ Peter Schiff
http://youtu.be/b_pSCwWpSQI
Posted by Armchair Critic, Wednesday, 8 June 2022 11:35:33 AM
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Thanks Armchair Critic. Kudos.
Posted by Canem Malum, Tuesday, 14 June 2022 6:42:52 PM
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We are now learning that in states where power generation is state owned and operated such as WA there is little problem with supply. In other states where generation has been "privatised", the private owners are holding the populace to ransom over supply based on price. As the federal government through the AER battles to set a fair consumer price for electricity, greedy private producers are withholding supply in an attempt at price gauging.

There are other problems as well, in states that over rely on coal fired power generation, the infer-structure is old and has lacked investment, resulting in unplanned outages. For almost 10 years the federal Coalition government had no viable energy policy, this created lack of certainty and a failure to invest in cheaper renewables.
Posted by Paul1405, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 5:35:53 AM
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Pauliar,

Once again you post complete bollocks. Power has almost always been cheaper and more reliable when the generators have been privately owned. Victoria is a prime example, though Andrews is doing his best to stuff it up.
Posted by shadowminister, Wednesday, 15 June 2022 1:30:36 PM
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If the grid is owned by the government and it allows open access to power generators then it should create a low price environment. It's seems to be sloppy thinking to just blame the energy companies- without understanding the essence of the issue. Both sides- Labor and Liberal parties- have sold off what are considered as utilities. But there are other strategic reasons for decisions and transparency isn't always beneficial to a nation.
Posted by Canem Malum, Thursday, 16 June 2022 3:19:47 PM
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shonky,

What we do know is private operators have been withholding electricity supply in an attempt at price gauging within the market.

The Australian Energy Market Operator late on Tuesday warned of a gap in available resources from Wednesday night and beyond as many energy producers are choosing to withdraw electricity supply from the east coast market. We are now paying the price for Coalition incompetence with energy policy, and their unscrupulous selling off of power generation and delivery assets to their low life mates in business, all done at fire sale prices. Its time to return a vital commodity into public hands, and stop the rip offs and wroughting of private operators.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 June 2022 5:39:37 AM
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Pauliar,

Once again you have posted you have exposed your idiocy. Firstly gauging is measuring and clearly, you meant gouging. Twit.

Secondly, gouging means that someone is charging a massive profit in a shortage which is not the case.

Backup gas generators are inefficient and very expensive to run, but they can provide lots of energy very quickly to prevent a network collapse. The costs of running these backup generators can cost between $500 to $1000 per MWhr. So when the fwit Labor government put a cap of $300 these idiots were asking the owners of these generators to contribute $ms of power at way below cost.

Even an moron like you should be able to work out why they didn't.

What's happening is a well-known consequence of an over-reliance on renewables that has been pursued by the state governments. Labor's policies are only going to further increase costs with the added expense of new lines (that receive a guaranteed payment) and the loss of low-cost coal plants.
Posted by shadowminister, Saturday, 18 June 2022 3:42:41 AM
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Kudos Shadow Minister.
Posted by Canem Malum, Sunday, 19 June 2022 1:51:03 AM
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