The Forum > General Discussion > Stark differences in the meaning of patriotism on display
Stark differences in the meaning of patriotism on display
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Posted by thinkabit, Saturday, 21 May 2022 9:17:12 AM
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Perhaps we need to ask - "What does public support
mean in a society with no functioning political opposition, a decimated free press, and a repressive regime in power?" Since Russia invaded Ukraine public opinion polls in Russia have shown a range of support among Russians. All dissent has been stifled. People arrested. Dissenters forced to flee the country. Vladimir Putin and the country's state media have called the invasion a "special military operation." And one that seems on the whole forcefully accepted. "This decision has already been taken ..." It's being publicly advertised as a "special military operation." Not an invasion or war. Let's not forget that: "The USSR was a blood-stained regime In which millions were murdered as a deadly routine Might Is Right was their slogan of choice Dissenting cries were not given a voice History has written of the many disposed The frozen infernos have now been exposed Putin and Stalin are two of a kind Yet some in the West to this are still blind Putin like Stalin will take what he wants He will kill and destroy those who fight in response The world can't allow this rampage of terror Not protecting Ukraine would be a huge error First the Ukraine, then Romania Followed by Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania Do we want the USSR re-instated Ruling Eastern Europe unabated? The world must unite and be fully aware That this is a battle that we all need to share Putin must be stopped in his tracks Otherwise no sovereign nation can truly relax." Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 21 May 2022 11:55:25 AM
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these morons could even excuse Russia for attacking Western European Nato countries
thinkabit, No, they wouldn't excuse Russia plus, Russia would not invade Western Europe Nato countries. That's simply US propaganda to incite the simpledoms. There simply is no comparison between Ukraine & Western Europe. Posted by Indyvidual, Saturday, 21 May 2022 3:57:22 PM
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Hi thinkabit,
You got your holidays mixed up. You are comparing Norway's Constitution Day of 17th May with Russia's Victory Day on 9th May. They're not comparable holidays. Norway Constitution Day (17th May) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Day_(Norway) Russia Victory Day (9th May) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Day_(9_May) Russia's National Day is NOT Victory Day. Russia's National Day is 'Russia Day' held on 12th June and is the day the Russian Federation was formed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_Day "June 12 is an important day for all people in Russia. All residents of Russia of all ages take part in a large number of solemn and festival events that are organized in this day. Moreover, every year on this day the President of Russian Kremlin gives State Awards of the Russian Federation to prominent scientists, writers, actors, etc. The main celebrations are organized on the Red Square in Moscow. The holiday ends with magnificent fireworks. Every year Russia Day becomes a symbol of national unity, acquiring more and more patriotic features. Every Russian citizen remembers that they are responsible for the present and future of their homeland. June 12 is a holiday of freedom, peace, and harmony of all people on the basis of law and justice." Going back to your comment: "And yet there are people in born in developed western countries that support Russia's actions in Ukraine. And these morons could even excuse Russia for attacking Western European Nato countries if it were to happen. I just don't understand it." I support Russia's actions in Ukraine. (Though it's a shame so many innocent people on both sides have to suffer because of it.) I support Russia's actions in Ukraine by default. Default - meaning I most certainly do not support the West overthrowing countries and inserting it's own puppet rulers as it did in Ukraine in 2014. Why did it happen? Because prior to the Maidan the democratically elected leader of Ukraine Victor Yanukovych decided not to align with the EU and western monetary system, and instead aligned with Russia, and it was then that the West (US) moved to topple the country. This is all the Wests fault. Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 21 May 2022 7:30:32 PM
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Armchair Critic: No I didn't get the holidays mixed up. I already know what they are. The point that I'm making is that these two links are to videos showcasing the days of the largest annual displays of patriotism for their respective countries out of all the days of the year.
In one (Norway)- the people voluntarily celebrate their patriotism with a massive community participation/spectator parade past of the parliament to the king's palace. And most importantly the parade is mostly composed on what their society places an extreme value on- their children (10,000s of them participate in the parade every year). It then ends with 100,000s of people joyously socializing and eating. In the other one (Russia) - they also have a parade past their center of government and before their "king". Their parade celebrates what they consider most important: military strength (they even have nuclear missile launchers rolling down the main drag). The difference in how they express patriotism couldn't be starker. But having said this. Even if you want to compare the Russia national day (June 12), there is still a world of difference. Firstly- is the shear size difference. Russia's day is a mere school charity fete in comparison to Norway's (especially considering the size difference in populations). The general Russian public don't have much feeling for it. And secondly they still typically have a large military presence. (While the military presence on Norway's day is basically limited to ceremonial guards leading the procession and playing music at the palace for the national anthem, etc.) Posted by thinkabit, Saturday, 21 May 2022 9:03:17 PM
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Yeah ok.
Well for one, 27 million Norwegians didn't die defeating Hitler but 27 million Russians did. Norway remained neutral in WWII, so it's definitely a huge thing in Russian history that sets the two apart. In contrast, look how much we revere ANZACs of which my ancestors were. (And I wish they were here I might add, to discuss the global events of today with me.) We had less than 100,000 servicemen die in both wars. - So let that 27 million Russian citizens sink in. Next you'd probably have to take into account the Cold War of which NATO was a huge part of, which impacts today's events, as well as the fact the the US has been actively meddling in other countries elections and overthrowing other peoples countries at least as far back as 1895 when the USS Maine exploded in Havana Harbour. This expert says says over 81 times, not including coups or attempts at regime change. http://www.npr.org/2016/12/22/506625913/database-tracks-history-of-u-s-meddling-in-foreign-elections This expert claims 57 successful overthrows since WWII http://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list How many people do you think died for their actions, and we're supposed to celebrate this? So the truth is probably 200+ times since WWII the United States involved themselves in other countries elections, probably much more. Democracy might sound good and have a whole lot of benefits (though I have to say I think we've been going backwards for some time) - But it's also just a front company for western monetary policy. A nations money issued as loans with interest, on the promise a neverending debt to be paid by all citizens and all their future generations. Do you want to know who wins out of all of these wars and nations divided? The bankers. Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 21 May 2022 10:32:42 PM
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Norway (17/05/2022) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG0QJdANdFc
Russian (9/05/2022) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2TO_9AhvRI
And yet there are people in born in developed western countries that support Russia's actions in Ukraine. And these morons could even excuse Russia for attacking Western European Nato countries if it were to happen. I just don't understand it.