Putin’s forces are doing in Ukraine what they have doing in Syria for the past 11 years. The United States and other nations are much more concerned about what is happening in Ukraine. The main differences that I can see is that Ukraine is in Europe and has a higher proportion of blond, blue-eyed Christians than Syria has.

Has Putin been encouraged to go into Ukraine by the lack of condemnation for what his forces have done in Syria

U don't think that Putin needed any encouragement
to go into Ukraine. He sees the Ukraine as part of
the former USSR - and has said that its break-up was a tragedy.
He wants the old empire re-instated. To rule Eastern Europe
unabated. First the Ukraine, then the rest will follow.

david f,

Perhaps an understanding of the US actions in Syria and why Russia is there would explain your dilemma.

Russia was effectively invited into Syria by the US. Obama had made his ill-fated 'red line' promises that if Assad used chemical weapons it would be a red line that he and the US would act upon.

Realising that Obama was a paper-tiger, Assad used chemical weapons, leaving the Obamessiah with a problem. The problem was resolved when Putin offered to broker a deal with Assad to get rid of the chemical weapons. That of course never happened.

This saved Obama from having to back down from his red line and Russia got a foothold in Syria. They've been there ever since.

So, if the US was to move to remove Putin from Syria, they'd have to admit Obama's error. And that's a step too far.

There are other differences. Putin is merely supporting a government in Syria. while trying to overthrow one in Ukraine. Putin is seeking to absorb territory in Ukraine but has no such plans in Syria. Putin is threatening other European countries in Ukraine, but there is no such threat in Syria.

Are you advocating the US invade Syria to remove Putin? Or advocating that they stop supporting Ukraine?

Dear Foxy,

I don't think Putin is a fool. I don't think he will act if he can anticipate unpleasant consequences from his action. He apparently wishes to reconstitute the USSR and apparently thinks that is a reasonable goal. If he did not think it was a reasonable goal he wouldn't attempt it. I believe that Putin is a rational person. He is aware of the present disenchantment of many in the US with international affairs. He is aware of the centrifugal tendencies of many in Europe with the European Union. I think Trump's fawning on him has given him confidence.

Well as Mhaze explained, it wouldn't be proper to compare Ukraine with Syria, but perhaps with Georgia (although the atrocities there were on a much smaller scale)?

Dear mhaze,

I think Trump was wrong in removing US forces from Syria. I advocate continuing to support Ukraine. I am also afraid of a nuclear confrontation. Considering that India and Pakistan, two nuclear powers, fought four wars without using nuclear weapons I hope that the present conflict in Ukraine will also resolve itself without using nuclear weapons. I am afraid that, somewhere down the line, that restraint will be lost.

Don't see the point of this post, unless it was just seen as an opportunity to have yet another crack about blond blue eyed Christians and a spot of self-loathing.

Dear David f.,

I wake up every morning and switch on the news with
the hope that I'll hear Putin has died or been removed
from office due to "ill health." My hope lies with
the Russian people to deal with this man. Unfortunately
I may have a long time to wait.

I don't trust Putin. Predicting what he will or will not do
is risky. I don't know what else the West can do - apart
from what they are already doing. No one wants a nuclear
war.

As for Trump? Hopefully his political career is well and
truly over. But I won't be laying any bets on it.

Dear Foxy,

The fear is that, for Putin, nuclear war may be preferable to defeat.

david f wrote: "I think Trump was wrong in removing US forces from Syria."

I well remember that when Trump was elected the woke left considered him a warmonger who would initiate WW3. In the end he became one of the few presidents to ever NOT start any war. So, of course, he was then considered to be wrong to not be a warmonger.(Irrespective of what he did, he was wrong in some eyes) The America First policy of Trump was aimed at getting the US out of foreign adventures where it had no national interest.

In the end, the Trump philosophy was that there was no good reason for a boy from Albuquerque to fight and die for the good of a boy from Aleppo. I don't understand how you can argue with that.

The US was in Syria because of a series of errors by Obama and Hilary. Trump was simply repairing those errors.

The US has no nation interest reasons for expending the lives of its youth in the Syrian civil war just as it has no nation interest reasons for expending the lives of its youth in Ukraine. This is nought to do with the colour of the respective combatant's skin.

The "Rolling Stone" magazine has a different take on
why the US under Trump withdrew from Syria.

"Trump has personal business interests in Turkey
but he's promised this decision is protected by his " great
and unmatched wisdom."

The article is worth a read:

http://rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-turkey-kurds-isis-erdogan-895555/

"The article is worth a read"

It's in Rolling Stone...it's never worth a read. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Rape_on_Campus).

What we see from the article is that the usual suspects, none of whom are likely to suffer from sending US soldiers into harm's way, were completely opposed to Trump removing troops from harm's way when there was no national interest reasons for them to be there. Did these authors or any others opposed to the withdrawal ask the troops how they felt about not be required to fight in a cause that had nothing to do with the US? Does anyone care? Trump did.

So, Foxy, should we mark you down as someone who is OK with kids from Albuquerque fighting any dying for kids in Aleppo?

My view and that of the Trump doctrine, is that US soldier citizens exist to defend the US. And that's it. The same applies to Australia. We should never be sending our kids into harm's way that doesn't benefit Australia - why do we still have troops in Sinai, Cyprus?

You lot are all what they term 'useful idiots'.
are you aware of that?

Wesley Clark 2007 - US plans 7 wars in 5 years.
http://youtu.be/TY2DKzastu8

Which part do you not understand - the US planned that war.
You people are so focused on listening to the stuff you want to hear that even when the truth is slapping you in the face you still stick to false-entrenced beliefs.

Why?

Nobody wants to hear things they don't want to hear.
Your minds are like locked doors, but tell you what you want to hear and then you mind is like an open door lapping up all the crap you are being fed.

The reason why everything is happening in the world is because the gullible idiots will always outnumber the people who are better informed.

If you people are this dumb when it comes down to examining the facts, then there's no hope for the human race.
You people seem to ignore facts that don't suit the existing core beliefs you already hold.

The US even backed Islamic State to try and oust Assad.

My sister at age 7 used to run around with fingers in her ears screaming
'Lalalalalalalala - I'm not listening, I'm not listening to you!'

I thought she was acting childish even then,
- But you lot are supposed to be grown adults.
Maybe you all still exhibit the minds of 7 year olds?

If there's any truth at all to that, then I think you should all just grow up.

Thinking about it, I think that on a basis of merit you lot must be even dumber,
My sister was clearly being ignorant on purpose.

Quite the rant there, Armchair.

Full of insights like "Nobody wants to hear things they don't want to hear." Wow. Did it take you long to come to that understanding?

Might I add nobody wants to see things they don't want to see.
Nobody wants to do things they don't want to do.
Nobody wants to get up in the morning when they they don't want to get up in the morning.

Bozo.

When ranting that you are the only one here privy to the facts, mentioning one or two of said facts might make the claim seem a little less demented.

Alas....

Sadly, your compass is just as way off as the rest mhaze.

"Assad used chemical weapons"

Wesley Kanne Clark (born December 23, 1944) is a former United States Army officer. He graduated as valedictorian of the class of 1966 at West Point and was awarded a Rhodes Scholarship to the University of Oxford, where he obtained a degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics. He later graduated from the Command and General Staff College with a master's degree in military science. He spent 34 years in the U.S. Army, receiving many military decorations, several honorary knighthoods, and the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Clark served as the Supreme Allied Commander Europe of NATO from 1997 to 2000, commanding Operation Allied Force during the Kosovo War.

"He pulled up a piece of paper off his desk and said just got this memo from the Secretary of Defenses office, it says we're going to attack and destroy the governments in 7 countries in 5 years. We're going to start with Iraq, then we're going to move to Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran."

You imply I'm lying...
I guess all you nutcrackers think he's lying too right?
Maybe the date on the video I showed dated November 6, 2007 was faked?
Maybe that's your explanation, since I'm sure you know events in Syria relating to the so called Arab Spring' didn't begin until March 2011?

I'm lying and he's lying, right mhaze?
That's the only way the garbage you lot entertain makes any sense, in this instance, is it not?

Why don't you just bleat like a sheep instead? Baaaaaa
http://youtu.be/__Vd1i10FqU

"When ranting that you are the only one here privy to the facts, mentioning one or two of said facts might make the claim seem a little less demented."

It's a really strange phenomenon actually.
Even when you lot are smacked in the face with info that completely upends the beliefs you hold, you still hold fast to those false beliefs.
I honestly just can't comprehend it.

"First the Ukraine, then the rest will follow."

Foxy,
Putin never had any plan to invade western Europe, and do you know why I know that 100% FOR CERTAIN?
Because you can't take Kiev with a population of 2 million people with 40,000 troops.
The objective was to split Ukrainian forces and hold them in place in separate parts of the country.

That's why they came in from the north;
That's why they also attacked Odessa from the Black Sea
It's a military strategy to keep troops in place, not take over the country.
Then they bomb the crap out of all the oil refineries
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/03/odessa-ukraine-russian-stirkes-port/
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/27/russia-ukraine-oil-gas-fuel-airport-attacks
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/russia-attacks-deep-in-ukraine-hitting-rail-and-fuel-facilities

Ukrainian forces cant move without fuel, Foxy
So now Russia can more easily take the eastern part of the country which was their objective all along.

Putin's actually been using a velvet glove, he deliberately went in soft to spare civilians, but with faked atrocities and western media lies and narrative you don't understand that.

If he went in hard, he would've bombed every bridge, every tv station, all the internet, all the power, and then he would've ran over the country much faster, but there would be a lot more civilian casualties.
He doesn't want that, because the eastern part of the country is pro-Russian.

He even leaves TV stations up so Zelensky can beg military help that results in dead Russians.
And the western news narrative and people like you says he wants to take over western Europe but has stalled because his forces are weak, that's not the true picture here.

But he's warned the West, they don't listen so its only a matter of time before things get worse.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1601112/Germany-Gepard-tanks-Ukraine-war-update-Olaf-Scholz-Vladimir-Putin-Russia-latest-news

These will be flown directly into Ukraine on C17s with NATO F-35s escorts as well as stingers which can potentially be used by AZOV against commercial aircraft.
Another faked Russian attack on a commercial airliner?

Putin will have to blow the C-17s up on the tarmac or the F-35s and SU-35s will have to go head to head.
I expect things to deteriorate further in coming days.

See this girl, injured?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60715492
Now see what she says about it.
http://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/03/testimony-mariupol-hospital-ukrainian-deceptions-media-malpractice/
Associated Press were complicit in getting the story.

See this?
http://thehill.com/policy/international/3258233-mayor-of-bucha-on-slain-civilians-we-get-the-impression-russian-troops-had-green-light-from-putin/
“They were indiscriminately killed by the Russia occupiers. A lot of them are elderly people. We get the impression that the Russian occupiers have got the green light from Putin and Shoigu, the Russian defense minister, to have a safari in Ukraine,” Fedoruk said during an interview on CNN.

Focus on that word SAFARI
http://twitter.com/politblogme/status/1510731897554489344
National Police of Ukraine:
“Today, on April 2nd in #Bucha, in Kyiv Oblast, special forces of the National Police are going to clean up the city from saboteurs and collaborators with Russian troops”.

Now look what the Unit within Ukrainian forces looking for sabotuers is called.
SAFARI.
http://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/02/12441_special_forces_regiment_safari.html

We sent the Bushmasters and 100 million in weapons to support NAZI Death Squads who went door to door in Bucha shooting suspected collaborators.

There's your 'Russian Atrocities'.

I saw another article yesterday showing civilians refusing Russian ration packs... Do you know why they refuse?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-28/nats-life-in-kherson-under-russian-rule/101023660

"Kherson now suffers from a severe shortage of medicine, cash, dairy and other food products, and Ukrainian officials warn the region could face a 'humanitarian catastrophe'. Russia has blocked all humanitarian assistance except its own, which troops deliver before Russian state TV cameras, and which many residents refuse to accept."

Anyone Ukrainian forces find with those rations are considered collaborators and shot, that's why.

Maybe we should look at the legality of the war, from the perspective of international law.

Putin didn't send forces into Ukraine until Luhansk and Donetsk claimed independence (which they have a right to do under UN Charter Article 1)
- and then formally asked to become part of the Russian Federation.

It was approved by the Russian Duma.
At this point Donetsk and Luhansk are now technically Russian territory.
(Only the west and its vassal states including ours don't recognise it)

Now if you consider them independent states, they don't have a recognised right of self defense / or collective self defense as Russia enacted in Syria because they are not member of the UN.

But there's a clause.
Russia (party to collective self-defense) is a part of the UN, which means that clause is nullified.

Next you have a right of nations (and there is a precedent for it in International law) to pre-empt any attack which is unavoidable.
This gives Russia a legal right to attack Ukrainian forces if there is unavoidable and imminent threat to those people and regions.

Which makes Russia's entire war in Ukraine LEGAL, as per international law.

Russia and Ukraine are both sovereign states and members
of the United Nations. Article 2 (4) of the UN Charter
prohibits the threat or use of force by member states.
Therefore the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine violated
international law (including the Charter of the UN) and
constituted a crime of aggression in international criminal law.

Russia is a party to the Geneva Convention yet it systematically
and defiantly violates international humanitarian law in
Ukraine.

Armchair wrote: "You imply I'm lying..."

Well actually I didn't - just that you're mistaken. Indeed the only person here talking about "lying" is you. Perhaps a little education on projection might be of use.... http://www.psychologytoday.com/au/basics/projection

Beside, I've already agreed that statements like "Nobody wants to hear things they don't want to hear" are true.... moronic, but true.

In the end, AC, all you have here is a fervent belief in the assertions of one man. The video you linked to is one man, spruiking his book by making wild and unsupported assertions about a paper he alleges to have seen.

Now that might be enough for you, but I have a somewhat higher standard of proof. I'd certainly want to see some evidence from some other source that this paper wasn't actually just a figment of Clark's imagination, or a marketing tool to sell his book. Alas no such collaboration exists. Still it worked with those who just want it to be true, no proof required.

But even if all this elaborate conspiracy is true, its also utterly irrelevant to this discussion. The paper, if it existed, talked about what would happen in the five years after 2005 ie 2005-2010. But we were talking about what happened in 2015-2018.

I suspect that you'd just stumbled across something you just wanted to be true and were desperate to write about. So the mere mention of Syria triggered you spluttering tirade, irrespective of relevance. If I'd mentioned the Battle of Qadesh , it probably would have been enough to set you off.

Russia wants mineral and agriculture expansion and does not want the survival of any Ukraine citizens within the area. They did not destroy the steel works but will starve to death those held there. The Steel works will be an asset to Russia when they believe they will win all lands and seaports in a corridor along the Black Sea to Moldova.

Similarly, China will want agriculture, minerals, iron Ore and coal and will purge a population occupying the land to feed their future.

"In the end, AC, all you have here is a fervent belief in the assertions of one man."

Spoken with such confidence as though the so called 'Arab Spring' never happened right?

You remember Saddam?
Maybe do you remember Gaddafi?
What about Assad 'the dictator' (democratically elected)
What about Persian Gulf crisis and attacks against Aramco blamed on Iran?
Tell me was there a war in Sudan and Somalia? Ummm Yes
That's 6 out of 7
And its no secret that Israel (US Ally FYI) has always wanted to take land up to the Litani
http://www.wrmea.org/006-september-october/for-israel-southern-lebanon-means-the-litani-river.html

There's more on that list that aren't.
Must be pure coincidence right?

Someones you have to accept it when your losing the argument;
- because you said something stupid without thinking about it first
In these situations I think its sensible not to dig your hole any deeper
Better luck next time

Russia and Ukraine are both sovereign states and members
of the United Nations. Article 2 (4) of the UN Charter
prohibits the threat or use of force by member states.

Yes Foxy, but this situation isn't about the threat or use of force by member states.

It's about the right the self-defense / collective self defense.
Specifically, the defense of the citizens in the Donbass (separatists) from the 8 years that Ukraine continually made war against them.

This didn't start because Russia wanted to attack Ukraine for no reason.
This started because Russia wanted to protect the citizens in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, which are 2 completely different things.

- And the only way to do that, was to attack Ukraines military assets.

You also have to take into account that the US is so authoritarian, that even though the separatists should've already enjoyed the right of self determination if they chose, free from being bombed because of it, Russia was sanctioned anyway the moment they recognised their independence.
No-one cared when they were being killed on an almost daily basis for 8 years, they were Russian-speaking people after all, how long did you expect Russia to sit by and put up with that and do nothing?
I'm fairly certain they followed the provisions of international law at every stage.

It's probably the reason why you hear allegations of Russian atrocities.
The US and the west needed more to make it stick.

There's a cognitive dissonance about some aspects of this terrible conflict.

The Russians are rightfully being criticised over their indiscriminate assault on civilians and Putin is known for assassinating and imprisoning his rivals and critics.
However we're still quite chummy with the Saudis who continue to pound and starve citizens in Yemen and their leader is pretty keen on the use of bone saws on foreign journalists.

Likewise we never saw the results of the "shock and awe" campaign on citizens of Iraq except a small leak courtesy of Julian Assange.

Also, clumsy as it was, Biden was continuing the arrangement to leave Afghanistan that had previously been negotiated by Trump and Trump abandoned his Kurdish allies in Syria, just as George Bush Snr abandoned them in Iraq. I doubt we will be able to depend on them for assistance again.

I suspect "cognitive dissonance" is a feature of most conflicts.

Dear davidf,

I would be interested to hear your thoughts about this debate between Bernard-Henri Lévy and Aleksandr Dugin in 2019 pre the invasion.

http://youtu.be/x70z5QWC9qs

Levy's support of Western liberalism is robust but
Dugan's arguments show just how much respect for its positions are being challenged and placed under threat.

Oh dear, AC, this is becoming rather embarrassing for you.

Let's recap. You found a video which claimed that there were documents showing that the US was going to start wars and change governments in 7 countries over a period of five years from 2005-2010. There isn't the slightest evidence for this document and/or policy other from this one man who didn't revel it until he put it in his book which he was then promoting.

This forms all the evidence for your beliefs. In a complete reversal of the normal way of things you then try to fit events to the theory rather than fit the theory to events. And you do it unsuccessfully.

Remember, the time frame is 2005-2010. The overthrow of Saddam falls outside that. The overthrow of Gaddafi falls outside that. Assad wasn't overthrown. There was no change in government in Sudan in that time.

If you want to believe this, knock yourself out. But I suspect you'll continue to look askance as events don't concur with this story. However carry on as though everyone who hasn't fallen for this unevidenced rubbish is in the wrong is rather amusing.

Dear mhaze,

You asked for evidence. If evidence was required for belief religion would disappear.

Dear Steele Redux,

I started listening to the debate. It was preceded by an ad. Shortly after it started it was interrupted by an ad. I returned to my book which was free of ads.

Dear davidf,

There are times I forget some people are still plagued by youtube ads.

Having installed http://adblockplus.org/download many years ago it is not something I am afflicted with.

If you do end up availing yourself of this very useful extension and thereby watching the video ad free then I feel it would reward the effort.

As the presenter says, it is rare to have two philosophers with such opposing views debate face to face nowadays, and while a transcript would no doubt do the exchange some justice it would not convey the body language of the participants especially that of Levy.

I found the contest of ideas presented very much worth my while.

Dear Steele Redux,

I have been afraid to use the ad blocker. When I get an offer which sounds too good I feel I will have to pay for it in the end. I have read transcripts of Dugin's views, and they seemed scary. I admire George Washington. He gave up power even though he could have been reelected for life. Generally, anyone who wants power isn't fit to have it. Maybe Hitler, Putin, Trump and others were once scared little boys at the mercy of an overbearing parent. I know I have a great potential for violence within me and feel it's probably good for others that I never had power over them. What rough beast is that slouching toward Bethlehem?

Dear davidf,

Adblock Plus is from a .org site as is UBlock which is also open source. As such they are less likely to be extracting a pound of flesh than other more commercial ventures.

I have little hesitancy recommending them both. Further AdBolck Plus allows me to permit ads on sites I believe deserve advertising revenue generated from my viewership for instance Friendly Jordies.

Yes Dugin's views are scary although his critique of Western liberalism isn't without merit. It is his alternatives which are rightly concerning.

I'm afraid 'the beast of prey; the magnificent blonde brute, avidly rampant for spoil and victory' has long ago sidestepped Bethlehem

.

Dear david f,

.

I agree with your opening gambit on this thread.

In addition to the possible explanations you indicate for the difference of attitude of the US and other nations to what is happening in Ukraine compared to what happened in Syria, there is also the fact that Ukraine is located geographically among the world’s most highly democratic nations (The Economist’s Democracy Index 2020), whereas Syria ranks at the bottom of the list, in 164th position from a total of 167 (the last being North Korea) – as one of the world’s most authoritarian regimes.

Russia, by the way, ranks 124th – also, of course, as one of the world’s most authoritarian regimes.

For some reason, Putin’s strategy of hiding the extent of the loss of his soldiers from their families and the Russian people, in general, reminds me of Virgil’s poem “The Pyres” (Aenid, Book XI), written between 29 and 19 BC :

http://soundcloud.com/user-243983744/03-the-pyres-aeneid-book-xi?in=user-243983744/sets/christian-bok-reads-poems-from-the-paris-review-archive&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

.

.

It’s interesting to note that the US non-profit organisation, ACLED, which collects information on political violence and protest events around the world, over 100,000 people have been killed in Yemen, including more than 12,000 civilians, as well as estimates of more than 85,000 dead as a result of an ongoing famine due to the war. In 2018, the United Nations warned that 13 million Yemeni civilians face starvation in what it says could become "the worst famine in the world in 100 years.

The Saudi Arabian-led bombing campaign has killed or injured an estimated 19,196 civilians as of March 2022.

The United States has provided intelligence and logistical support for the campaign that continues despite the Biden Administration's pledges to withdraw U.S. support for Saudi Arabia in the Yemen War. The U.S. has also been a major supplier of weapons to the Yemeni government, although according to the Pentagon, hundreds of millions of dollars worth of that material has gone missing since it was delivered.
Russia called for "humanitarian pauses" in the coalition bombing campaign in 2015, bringing the idea before the United Nations Security Council.

In 2019 a UN report said the US, UK, and France may potentially be complicit in committing war crimes in Yemen by selling weapons to the Saudi-led coalition which the report said was using starvation of civilians as a tactic of warfare :

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/03/uk-us-and-france-may-be-complicit-in-yemen-war-crimes-un-report.

That sound familiar, doesn’t it ?

.

Dear Banjo Paterson,

At the Nuremberg trials US Judge Jackson said the US would be subject to the judgment of an international Criminal Court. Considering the actions of Saudi Arabia which has been supplied by US arms sales and supported by the US Jackson and the US have been dishonored.

During WW2 a British induced famine starved to death possibly 3 million Indians. The Russians massacred Polish officers in the Katyn forest. The Nuremberg trials only considered the crimes of those who lost WW2.

I will have to look up your reference to Virgil. My hearing is not good enough to decipher the sound clip.

Dear SteeleRedux,

I looked up Alexandr Dugin. In his bio was this:

"In June 2012, Dugin said in a lecture that chemistry and physics are demonic sciences, and that all Orthodox Russians need to unite around the president of Russia in the last battle between good and evil, following the example of Iran and North Korea.[116] He added: "If we want to liberate ourselves from the West, it is needed to liberate ourselves from textbooks on physics and chemistry."[116]"

It's a war on reason.

Dear davidf,

Dugin it to Putin what Bannon was to Trump. Someone who manages to wrap obvious truths around some pretty nasty nuggets. But those truths are nonetheless potent and worthy of discussion in my opinion.

There is some nuance to be considered regarding your opening post. There had been over 12,000 casualties in Eastern Ukraine before the invasion. Nazi brigades were rampant in the region and their abuses well know. But any Western outrage was muted at best. Why? Because it was ethnic Russians in the firing line? This doesn't quite fit with the “blond, blue-eyed Christians” premise you led with.

Vice did a good program on the Nazi brigades on the front line over 3 years ago. Their flags of red over black symbolising blood over soil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMMXuKB0BoY

Why wasn't the far more outrage over this aspect of the conflict. It certainly allows people like Dugin to slant the narrative more effectively because of it.

As to the quote about chemistry and physics being demonic sciences I'm struggling to find a reference that gives any context. It certainly wasn't in the one provided by Wikipedia.

Dear SteeleRedux,

The quote on Dugin is from Wikipedia. Look again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin.

In a war things get murky. Individuals have different loyalties. Some of the forces fighting for Ukraine do have far right attachments and use Nazi slogans. That is not new.

In WW2 members of the KKK fought for the US. Racists who might have lynched a black man or a Jew fought against a racist enemy. People have mixed loyalties. Religion, ideology and nationality all come into play. Nugent Bull, a Catholic Australian, sympathized with the fight of Franco against the leftists so he fought for Franco. He was wounded. When WW2 broke out he flew for the Australia Air Force and was killed in action over Germany. Possibly Finland was the most democratic country in the world at the time of WW2. They wound up fighting on the side of the Nazis against Russia. Jewish Finns joined in the fight against the Russians. They fought for their country which was on the side of the Nazis

The slaughter goes on and on. The Wars of the Reformation were mainly Protestant against Catholics. Sometimes, Protestants fought on the Catholic side and vice versa. Sometimes they join to kill others.

In 1524–1525 peasants rose in revolt across southern and western Germany, inflamed by the version of the Lutheran Reformation preached by Thomas Müntzer, who had been one of Martin Luther’s early followers but had been banished for his radicalism and militancy. Some of the peasants’ demands were socioeconomic, but all derived from the belief that the whole of human society, rather than just theology and the church, ought to be remade in accordance with biblical principles and the law of God. In a sense, the Peasants’ War (as the resulting conflict was called) was the first of the post-Reformation wars of religion. Yet it was unusual, in that Luther condemned the peasants and the war ended with the slaughter of peasants by both Lutheran and Catholic armies.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine is like other wars. Impure.

Wow, I found somewhere that reports real news.
Start reading some of these stories and you'll see how controlled our 'free press' is.

http://ingaza.wordpress.com/

John Pilger seems to think shes a good journalist
http://twitter.com/johnpilger/status/1397901080864858114

Here’s what I found at the reported ‘mass grave’ near Mariupol
http://ingaza.wordpress.com/2022/04/29/heres-what-i-found-at-the-reported-mass-grave-near-mariupol/

Meanwhile, as Roman noted while walking, mass graves is something Ukraine has previously been accused of. He cited DPR leader Denis Pushilin as having stated that at least 300 such sites have been discovered since 2014.

He also spoke of what he witnessed. “In 2014 or 2015, mass graves were discovered as Azov or Aidar fighters retreated from the Donetsk region. I even saw a woman, she was dug up, she had her arms tied behind her back, she was in the late stages of pregnancy and she had a hole in her head, so that means she was executed.”

American journalist George Eliason, who has lived in Lugansk for many years, has written about these alleged atrocities. In a documentary on the issue, he said: “I’m here for five minutes and then I’m told the first five people they found, it was five decapitated heads. They were all civilians. Who does this to people?”

International Criminal Lawyer on “The Legality of War”
http://ingaza.wordpress.com/2022/03/17/international-criminal-lawyer-on-the-legality-of-war/

“Why Ukraine’s “Bucha Massacre” Story Isn’t Adding Up”
http://ingaza.wordpress.com/2022/04/05/why-ukraines-bucha-massacre-story-isnt-adding-up/

Western Claims of Russian Mass Graves Near Mariupol Another Fake News Hoax–I Know, I Went To See For Myself
http://ingaza.wordpress.com/2022/04/24/western-claims-of-russian-mass-graves-near-mariupol-another-fake-news-hoax-i-know-i-went-to-see-for-myself/

On the OSCE’s claims of Russian war crimes
http://ingaza.wordpress.com/2022/04/28/on-the-osces-claims-of-russian-war-crimes/

Don't forget this one from the other day.
New witness testimony about Mariupol maternity hospital ‘airstrike’ follows pattern of Ukrainian deceptions, media malpractice
http://thegrayzone.com/2022/04/03/testimony-mariupol-hospital-ukrainian-deceptions-media-malpractice/

So, Associated Press is complicit getting stories of staged atrocities?
OSCE is storing Ukrainian weapons?
Mariupol Hospital and Bucha 'Massacres' faked
White Helmets - we knew about them already but now they're working in Ukraine?
(Chemical weapons attack to be staged)
http://moderndiplomacy.eu/2022/04/27/ukraine-another-ghouta-for-the-white-helmets/

Associated Press on Scene Rounding up Traitors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR_E8dvyaOI

"We will cure him"

Dear davidf,

You say: “The quote on Dugin is from Wikipedia. Look again.”

I have looked. I have gone to the reference and had google translate its Russian to English. And nowhere within it is a direct quote from Dugin stating he saw chemistry and physics as demonic.

The only quote from him regarding the two sciences was here: he shocked a large part of the assembled audience with the following statement: "If we want to free ourselves from the West, we must free ourselves from the textbooks of physics and chemistry."

http://www.baltinfo.ru/2012/06/13/Vladimir-Puti-kak-spasitel-ot-sataninskogo-Zapada-284483

There was a clickbait title which asserted this but as I said nothing directly from him. He may well have3 said it but to offered evidence is insufficient in my belief.

As to the Nazi brigades you really haven't addressed my question and forgive me but I feel you have presented false equivalencies.

If there had been substantial KKK brigades fighting under their own rules in WW2 like the Azov brigade had been doing in Eastern Ukraine then I'm sure there would have been more of an issue than you make out.

That there was so little Western condemnation of these brigades operating with impunity and reported viciousness leading to the deaths of some 14,000 people including thousands of civilians is in my view telling, as is your downplaying of it.

Dear Armchair Critic,

Eva Bartlett is a conspiracy theorist responsible for some pretty wild claims about the White Helmet Brigade in Syria. As a writer for RT it is unlikely we are going to get an unvarnished account from her. But if there was a single pivotal story that she has presented that you would like me to take a look at I am happy to do so. I will not however be wading through the rest of your offerings as life really is too short.

Dear SteeleRedux,

You wrote “I have looked. I have gone to the reference and had google translate its Russian to English. And nowhere within it is a direct quote from Dugin stating he saw chemistry and physics as demonic.”

We have been looking at different things. The reference I cited was in English.

In your original post you wrote:

“There is some nuance to be considered regarding your opening post. There had been over 12,000 casualties in Eastern Ukraine before the invasion. Nazi brigades were rampant in the region and their abuses well know. But any Western outrage was muted at best. Why? Because it was ethnic Russians in the firing line? This doesn't quite fit with the “blond, blue-eyed Christians” premise you led with.”

There was nothing in the clip you asked me to look at concerning 12,000 casualties before the invasion. I looked at the clip again. They did use Nazi language. They also called themselves anarchists which contradicts being Nazi. They are not under control of the Ukrainian regular military. They appear to be a throwback to past Ukrainian groups. When the Reds and the Whites were fighting during the Russian Civil War Nester Makno led an anarchist militia which was not aligned with anybody.

Nestor Makhno - Wikipedia

“Makhno was aggressively opposed to all factions that sought to impose their authority over southern Ukraine, battling in succession the forces of the Ukrainian National Republic, the Central Powers of Germany and Austro-Hungary, the Hetmanate state, the White Army, the Bolshevik Red Army, and other smaller forces led by various Ukrainian atamans.”

It looks to me like the Azovs are acting as Ukrainians have acted in the past

Dear davidf,

No we are looking at the same thing.

You had offered:

"In June 2012, Dugin said in a lecture that chemistry and physics are demonic sciences, and that all Orthodox Russians need to unite around the president of Russia in the last battle between good and evil, following the example of Iran and North Korea.[116] He added: "If we want to liberate ourselves from the West, it is needed to liberate ourselves from textbooks on physics and chemistry."[116]"

It was from Wikipedia.

The number at the end of the paragraph is a reference to the source material. If you click it you will be taken to the reference list at the bottom of the page. There you will find a link to that particular source. That is the one I gave you in the last post. It is in Russian and needs to be translated.

That source does not quote Dugin directly about physics and chemistry being demonic. It seems to only be raised in the title of the piece. Unfortunately there is no link to a direct transcript either. Therefore I am a little cautious.

The Azov Brigade was eventually moved as a unit into the Ukrainian Army where it remains largely intact and to a degree still with a high degree of autonomy. The Christchurch shooter had their insignia sown into his backpack.

The toll they had been enacting on ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine should in my opinion been recognised by the West and condemned. It wasn't.

To be legitimising hard right neo Nazi militia in Europe is a very slippery slope and should be concerning to all.

Dear SteeleRedux,

You wrote: “The toll they had been enacting on ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine should in my opinion been recognised by the West and condemned. It wasn't..”

That was the point of my post starting this thread. Condemnation is selective. Russians were not condemned for what they were doing in Syria but were condemned for the invasion of Ukraine.

I have dismissed the wrongs done to ethnic Russians in Ukraine as I thought it was Russian propaganda justifying their invasion. I have been skeptical of their claims. I could be wrong.

Hey SteeleRedux,
I think its probably fair to say that we all tend to sway towards a bias of what we already believe to some degree.

I remember ttbn commenting at one point about how no matter what discussion we have here and no matter what arguments we all make to share our opinions and info, that none of us really ever change our positions too much, which is kind of interesting.

So that if you're skeptical of anything the smells like a conspiracy, you'll always tend to think with that bias,
Whereas if I tend to believe those things more than others, I'm always going to think of things from that kind of bias.

I do remember though following the whole White Helmets thing in Ukraine, and I tended to believe it, but I did have different sources.

I watched George Webb on youtube for quite some time and kept up with quite a lot of it, until his entire collection of videos were deleted.

That path I went down watching his videos opened my mind up to just how much stuff is really going on behind what people think.
Even now he's been to at least half a dozen countries in Western Europe in the past week, but I can only get snippets of info from his twitter and I don't have access to his paid subscription.
http://www.neighborhoodnewsstudio.com/

You also have to be honest as well, there isn't really any investigative journalism these days, it's all just reporters parroting the same info.
You have to ask the question why we don't see more opposing views?
It really makes you wonder if we're all just being fed what they want us to know.
We can only make judgements based of info were given, so it stands to reason that if one were to control that info, then they control what we think and believe.
A couple others:
http://www.mintpressnews.com/
http://www.brassballs.blog/

I found another potentially good looking source of info today. Gonzalo Lira
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPxpPT4b4vnDlX0sBGz3r4Q
Zelensky, Hunter Biden — and Their Sugar Daddy, Kolomoisky
http://youtu.be/fUPKZkqXfZI

"I have dismissed the wrongs done to ethnic Russians in Ukraine as I thought it was Russian propaganda justifying their invasion. I have been skeptical of their claims. I could be wrong."

I think there's definitely an element of ethnic hate going on here though.

I heard that Slavic people are very racist in their own way, if that's the right word, that they judge on a basis of how Slavic others are, and I watched a video today where a elderly Russian woman in Eastern Ukraine spoke about potentially being targetted just for having a common Russian surname.

- And there is definitely a hatred of Russians going on.
I think they hate the Russian speaking people, they seem to be quite serious about spoken language and wanting everything Ukrainian.

Dear davidf,

Perhaps reading some UN reports might provide balance.

For instance this one details some of the abuses: http://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Countries/UA/Ukraine_14th_HRMMU_Report.pdf

Under the heading "Ukrainian law enforcement, armed and security forces", reads the following:

48. In the majority of cases documented by OHCHR, law enforcement employed threats of sexual violence against individuals detained under charges of terrorism, along with other forms of torture and ill-treatment during interrogation. Two of the documented cases took place in or around Avdiivka in April and May 2015. A male detainee who was subjected to torture and forced to confess to his involvement in the armed groups on camera, was subsequently threatened with sexual violence, told that he would be handcuffed and raped by a homosexual man. Two women from the same family, aged 18 and 41, were tortured and repeatedly threatened with sexual violence.

49. Other documented cases appear to be linked to the military presence in densely populated civilian areas, such as towns near the contact line, and general impunity. A man with a mental disability was subject to cruel treatment, rape and other forms of sexual violence by eight to 10 members of the ‘Azov’ and ‘Donbas’ battalions in August-September 2014. The victim’s health subsequently deteriorated and he was hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital.

“A resident of Mariupol was detained by three servicemen of the ‘Azov’ battalion on 28 January 2015 for supporting the ‘Donetsk people’s republic’. He was taken to the basement of Athletic School No. 61 in Mariupol, where he was held until 6 February 2015. He was continuously interrogated and tortured. He complained about being handcuffed to a metal rod and left hanging on it, he was reportedly tortured with electricity, gas mask and subjected to waterboarding and he was also beaten in his genitals. As a result he confessed about sharing information with the armed groups about the locations of the Government checkpoints. Only on 7 February, he was taken to the Mariupol SBU, where he was officially detained.”

Both sides are implicit in these abuses but the Azov and other Nazi groups feature strongly in these reports.

Dear Armchair Critic,

I understand the flow of information and spin can make it seem like nothing has substance, but by and large we are served by broadcasters like our ABC and the BBC which at least strive to get us decent and believable coverage.

I do note you have posted another 5 links. The offer to dissect one of them still stands if you wanted to put it forward.

One thing I found funny was an attempt by Lavrov to portray Zelensky as a Nazi by claiming Hitler had Jewish roots (as in ancestry).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-61296682

Is this debate trying to elucidate the philosophical makeup of Ukrainians and so guess their future? Would such an approach have been useful in guessing the future of post ww2 Japan and West Germany?

I see that Gerasimov got hit with shrapnel near Izyum, then got evacuated asap. He was there to direct the special operation. Russia could have lost over 25,000 troops by some accounts, as well as about a third of its equipment directed to the invasion, and possibly 70% of its precision munitions. The Russian offensive is literally bogged down and they are getting clobbered by the assisted Ukrainian army, making them more and more vulnerable to a range of counteroffensives, and closer to collapse. Putin might be about to go under the knife, so that might be the end of him.

AC

Evidence of atrocities of the Russian army come from many independent sources, for example satellite images and intercepted radio and phone conversations (by ham radio operators and German intelligence). The denial tends to come from Russia, and there is the claim that Russia is sponsoring much disinformation about the war on the internet.

You may be correct, but how do you determine what is true and what is false? For example, is the portrayal of civilian destruction by the Russian army credible, and how credible is it for a number of independent sources to coordinate such a conspiracy? It is challenging enough to coordinate the actions of a united group of people. The performance of the Russian invasion should demonstrate that to you.

Dear SteeleRedux,

The crimes committed by the Ukrainians should be condemned. If they lose their crimes possibly will be. If they manage to throw the Russians out their crimes won't be.

Some of the family of my late son-in-law supported the British during the Revolutionnary War. Supporters of the British were persecuted by George Washington, and those relatives of my late son-in-law fled to Canada. The different parts of his family have kept in touch, and my daughter and her family have had some delightful visits to Nova Scotia as guests of descendants of those who fled the wrath of George Washington. I doubt if you will see anything in any book about the crimes of George Washington.

Thanks to the non-stop arguments between two or three armchair experts here, the Russians are expected to withdraw from Ukraine at the end of this week, and make full reparations.

Of course they will - just as they did in the past with
all the countries they invaded. After all we have to
believe what they tell us and their own people.

But wait... what do the history books say?

I think that if there is one person who is more responsible for this mess than any other;
The one person who has more blood on their hands than any others;
- Then I suspect that person could quite possibly be Victoria Nuland.

Know-all Foxy doesn't know what sarcasm is.

ttbn

Thank you for telling us we are a bunch of idiots. I can't vouch for others, but for myself I claim to be as anti-communist as Roger Ramjet and nearly as smart. And what would you have us share other than our stupidity? I would have thought that the sharing of thoughts is a good thing if done with respect and sincerity. As far as the conflict is concerned, my guess is that it isn't a walk in the park for either side. I am sure that Roger Ramjet agrees with me.

ttbn,

I guess Foxy's comments are too subtle for you.
You can't recognize sarcasm unless it smacks you in
the head. Pub mentality.

ttbn,

dumb and dumber!

Both of us!

Hey SteeleRedux,

"I do note you have posted another 5 links. The offer to dissect one of them still stands if you wanted to put it forward."

- I'll take you up on that offer, but I'll give you a new link, dated 27th March 2018
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/

Also found here on the congressmans website.
http://khanna.house.gov/media/in-the-news/congress-bans-arms-ukraine-militia-linked-neo-nazis

I'd like to see ANY OF YOU try to squirm out of this one...
Come on, give us your best shot.

Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi

FYI, this was my original source to the story.
- A YouTube channel called 'Redacted'
http://youtu.be/skd9hWsFdAg

Now just out of curiosity SteeleRedux,
Is there anywhere that the ABC or BBC covered this important bit of info?
If not, why not?

I rest my case, and let the jury deliberate.

A Terrifying Prediction for 2030 (The Great Reset)
http://youtu.be/DpE5cBgl11U

I haven't watched this YouTube video yet;
- But I did buy a hard cover copy of Klaus Schwab's '4th Industrial Revolution', a few months back.
I should probably read it and find out what all the fuss is about.

Dear Armchair Critic,

Your link is hardly news. I was aware of the measure and it was reported well before The Hill ran the story.

Here is The Nation covering it 2 years prior. It is dated Jan 14, 2016.

http://www.thenation.com/article/politics/congress-has-removed-a-ban-on-funding-neo-nazis-from-its-year-end-spending-bill/

The Azov Wikipedia page included the story in 2016.

There were a couple of Democrat senators who were lobbying hard for the ban and some Republican senators keen to see it be removed.

Lots of things get tacked on to or stripped from spending bills including a gay rights measure which was initially caused the bill of 2016 to be voted down.
http://rollcall.com/2016/05/26/house-rejects-spending-bill-after-gay-rights-measure-added/

While Azov measure may not have made front page news back then, it was hardly a secret and hardly worthy of a good conspiratoralist like yourself.

How about you instead take a punt on who was responsible for these rocket attacks in Moldovia. Was it Russian Special Forces or Ukraine infiltrators as flagged at the end of the clip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfEI1ye7ChY

Hey SteeleRedux,
ok, you win that one.
Serve me right for thinking I had you, good work.
I have been a bit out of touch with all the goings on in the independent media for at least some time.
- If nothing at all, then at least we've established that the US itself recognised Azov as Neo-Nazis and white supremacists, and that the US should never have been giving them weapons - which is in line with Putin's claims, right?

And even that's enough to show that the news we get isn't exactly giving up an unbiased version of the truth.

"How about you instead take a punt on who was responsible for these rocket attacks in Moldova."

I'm not sure I'd like to speculate there, haven't looked at this before, but if I was to speculate with the benefit of 15mins internet browsing...
From what I'm reading while Moldova wants to join the EU, most of the government support military neutrality, and are against joining NATO.
Moldova is 100% reliant on Russia for gas, and highly reliant on energy from Transnistra.
I suppose I'd say that I can't see any reason whatsoever for Russia to attack them if their stance is to stay out of it, and especially since they owe Gazprom hundreds of millions of dollars.
- But the gas and energy contracts with Moldovagaz (majority owned by Gazprom) and energy contract MoldGres power plant in Transnistra expired a couple of days ago, not sure the outcome.

But I don't like the look of their government, or Soros involvement in the country.

I wouldn't like to speculate who, but I don't think Russian special forces would pull up in a family van like bumbling idiots firing rocket launchers.
I'd say false flag.

But after a second look at the video, it's misleading.
It wasn't in Moldova, the attack was in Transnistra.

"Explosions rocked a breakaway Russian-controlled territory in Moldova heightening fears the conflict could spread."

I'd have to start all over, but not real hard to guess who..
They also took out antennas at the Grigoriopol transmitter site
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Transnistria_attacks

.

Putin dies and goes to hell, but after a while, he is given a day off for good behavior.

So he goes to Moscow, enters a bar, orders a drink, and asks the bartender:

-Is Crimea ours?

-Yes, it is.

-And the Donbas?

-Also ours.

-And Kyiv?

-We got that too.

Satisfied, Putin drinks, and asks:

-Thanks, how much do I owe you?

-5 euros.

.

Dear Banjo Paterson,

A good joke although the version I heard had the bartender ask for hryvnias.

Have you managed to catch Servant of the People yet on SBS yet? Fascinating example of life imitating art. I find I'm frequently pinching myself because of how surreal it is.

Thanks Banjo P., and Steele.

Loved the joke.

Who knows what the future holds.

Putin’s ‘Chief Propagandist’ Calls For Nuke Attack On UK; MI5 Warns Against Saboteurs Ukraine War
http://youtu.be/JSJOvCkHCQU

Russia Shoots Down Ukrainian Bombers l US Says "Can't Fold To Bully" As Putin Warns Hostile Nations
http://youtu.be/tsROseu97jY
>>Representative Jason Crow, a military veteran and House Intelligence Committee member, said it was essential the Ukrainians "have what they need to win"
He said the US was not interested in stalemates, or "going back to the status quo"<<

They are going to keep sending arms to Ukraine, pretending the west is staying out of it, and keep pushing and pushing until Russia nukes something.

What other outcome is there?

Unless Russia pulls out and shuts its doors to the world like China once did?

And even then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland

She is the former CEO of the Center for a New American Security, (CNAS), serving from January 2018 until early 2019, and is also the Brady-Johnson Distinguished Practitioner in Grand Strategy at Yale University, and a member of the board of the National Endowment for Democracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy

The National Endownment for Democracy has been accused by political activists, groups and governments around the world of being an agency for regime change and/or an instrument of US foreign policy following the particular ideologies and interests of the United States government. The history of the organization shows that it was created to take over some activities previously performed by the CIA.

They will keep pushing and pushing until someone nukes someone.

Nuclear War Simulation - NATO vs RUSSIA
Total Global Casualties - 548,739,330
http://youtu.be/dxJHecyYBno

I think that's a huge underestimate, because it doesn't take China into account.

I've told you all before my position.
I don't support sanctions which is collective punishment against entire nations.
And I don't support US government overthrowing countries.
That is all, it really needs to stop.

Zelensky appeals for truce to free civilians trapped under steel plant
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7725271/ukraines-zelenskiy-appeals-for-truce/

No, if I was Russia I wouldn't make that deal, I'd make a counter offer.

- Unconditional surrender of every man, woman and child in Azovstal. -

All fighters must lay down their weapons and surrender to Russian forces,
- or they themselves will be responsible for the deaths of all men, women, children and elderly taking shelter there.

Surrender and save the save the lives of your wives, children, parents, elderly and injured fighters.

Injured fighters and civilians should receive immediate required medical care.

Then, leftover able fighters must remove all mines, booby traps and everything else they set to kill invading Russian forces.
If any Russian military personnel die during this process of removing all military equipment, then the deal to handover women children and elderly is put in jeopardy.

If successful women, children and elderly should be released back to Ukraine, and the Azov Regiment shall be taken as prisoners of war.

Then after an expected full interrogation by Russian forces, deals should be made for a prisoner exchange, and a full negotiated settlement of the war.

- With everything that's happened since 2014 when the US overthrew the country taken into account and placed on the table for negotiations.

The US needs to stop overthrowing countries, stop sanctioning countries and take responsibility for its own messes.

Surrendering to the Russian army would be less appealing than surrendering to Japan. The allied forces realised that as the Japanese army advanced across Burma.

How do you surrender to a bear? Admiral Makarov just had its status changed to submarine. It can keep Moskva company.

Putin should take off the kids gloves.
Bomb every single bridge and dam on the Dnipro river from Kiev to the Black Sea and cut the western side of the country off from the east.
Then start bombing transmission towers.
- I would -

The sooner we can move to a place of negotiated settlement the better.
The longer this drags on the more people are going to suffer.

Actually, make that all the bridges EXCEPT the one at Kherson and the one at Kozatske.
- Which are in Russian held territory.

Stuff it, as well as that, bomb the 7 bridges across the Dnipro in Kiev as well.

Admiral Makarov
I'd bet money they're not Ukrainian weapons.

That strategy makes sense AC, but does Russia have enough missiles to do the job? They are slowing down the the supply lines to the Ukrainians, keeping their armoured vehicles out of range and using their artillery, making it harder for the Ukrainian forces to inflict damage. The Russian forces are still taking great losses, although they don't seem as vulnerable as they were in the north. Haven't seen the switchblades used yet.

Hey Fester,
I don't think Putin wants to use nukes, and I don't think he wants to fight NATO, but backed into a corner, the man has enough nukes to blow the planet up several times over.

I've just been watching a video that shows his Poseidon weapon.
- For which he purportedly has 30 of them in the Russian Navy.
Just one of these things has a 100 Kiloton yield that will create a nuclear tsunami 500m in height and will make the UK uninhabitable for decades if not longer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status-6_Oceanic_Multipurpose_System

How the Secret Russian Tsunami Bomb Works
http://youtu.be/kIW5EKhubj4

They are openly talking about this on Russian State TV
http://youtu.be/7SnTkc0r6gk

Or the Satan 2, which can purportedly wipe France OFF THE MAP
Or destroy England 202 seconds after launch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-28_Sarmat

That's not a whole lot longer than it takes to read this post.

Besides that, I'm part way through this video from University of Chicago:
Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer
http://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4
It's long and in depth, I'm only about 20 mins in.

Prior to this I took a look and reminded myself of the woman who did more than anyone to create this mess, Victoria Nuland.
F--- the EU: Alleged audio of US diplomat Victoria Nuland swearing
http://youtu.be/L2XNN0Yt6D8

This is her husband, Robert Kagan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kagan
Robert Kagan (born September 26, 1958) is an American neoconservative scholar, and critic of U.S. foreign policy and a leading advocate of liberal interventionism.
Other neoconservatives include William Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz,
and Richard Pearle (Also known as the 'Prince of Darkness)

Then, I took a look at this.
This is the king of the world.

Joe Biden Pooped His Pants At The Vatican
http://youtu.be/qPAFLBgmxMU

Now I know we all get old, and if you gotta go you gotta go, but this is the leader of the world with a nuclear football we're talking about.

- Who clearly had a conflict of interest in Ukraine with Burisma.
http://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Ukraine%20Report_FINAL.pdf

I'm just a nobody, with access to the internet
But what should I make of all this? You tell me.

Dear Critic,

How about also giving China some tactical advice, over which bridges they should bomb in Australia?

You must probably think that because you are such a lovely nice guy they will have pity on you and your family and allow you to live, but they won't!

Ukraine is our front line: should it fall, there is only Taiwan and possibly Japan ahead of us before the whole of Australia looks like Mariupol. Even while neither of us likes America, should they fail to help Ukraine significantly enough to win this war decisively, then Xi will understand (correctly) that they won't come to save us here either.

Also this
http://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/12/russias-attack-on-ukraine-halts-half-of-worlds-neon-output-for-chips.html

SHTF! You HAVE TO HEAR What This TRUCKING INSIDER said to ME! PREP NOW!
http://youtu.be/ZrbgKj585OE

Where have all the truck parts gone?
http://www.ccjdigital.com/maintenance/article/15066337/truck-parts-among-supply-chain-casualties

Apparently there's a shortage of neon, used to create chips which is going to disrupt supply chains or something.
Apparently trucks are waiting months for parts to be repaired.

It all looks pretty bad to me.

Hey Yuyutsu,

My feelings on the whole thing are that we should ask the UK (in the nicest possible way) that we would like to give them back the Union Jack and that also they should give us nuclear technology so that we can remain NEUTRAL and be a voice of reason in the world.

As for China, and Taiwan - just from whats gone on in Ukraine, the Taiwanese people should be considering the serious possibility that the US will fight to the last Taiwanese just to get at China, just as they are willing to fight to the last conscripted Ukrainian to get at Russia.

Whatever way you look at things, the world is entering into a very dangerous state, and I don't know if there's anything that can be done to stop it.

My feelings are it's one thing for the US to take out little countries with their overthrows
(Venezuelans eating dogs and cats etc)

But it's a whole different thing to pull this crap on nuclear armed members of the UK Security Council.

Like I keep saying, I oppose sanctions on the basis its collective punishment on entire nations, and I oppose liberal interventions (US overthrows)

That's really all I've got atm.
Thanks for contributing.

Typo - permanent members of the *UN Security Council, I meant.
(nuclear armed ones)

Hey Yuyutsu,
You have knowledge on matters related to Jews.
What's your best opinion on this stuff? (if you have one)

The Unholy Trinity of Frank, Weishaupt, and Rothschild
http://youtu.be/K0tBGK7UKL4

Albert Pike's 3 World Wars
http://youtu.be/m581aW5AH4M

Also, a Sufi Muslim point of view?

From Ukraine To Pax Judaica
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzJwclteyoo

Ukraine's Anti Russian Stance Is a Zionist Masterplan
http://youtu.be/1YF0H5fnvis

I first came across this guy many years ago, (Sheikh Imran Hossein) haven't watched any for a long time.
I always thought it was an interesting perspective.
These were the first videos I watched:

Sheikh Imran Hosein - Beyond September 11 (Part 1 of 2)
http://youtu.be/DeQ_wfUBjws

Sheikh Imran Hosein - Beyond September 11 - Q&A (Part 2 of 2)
http://youtu.be/4mx3EUU5ZuQ

These aren't part of my question, but they are good videos I came across over the years so I'll throw them in just in case anyone wants to watch something better than the TV is offering.

Haven't watched this one, it might be interesting
The International Monetary System & The Future Of Money
http://youtu.be/uNnIC6dkpoI

- And can't forget good old 'All Wars are Bankers Wars'
http://youtu.be/Us58XnwBePU

Here's another one I forgot from John Birch Society
What You're Not Supposed to Know About America's Founding
http://youtu.be/364cxeR5EAg

And one about Islam
What The West Needs To Know About Islam | William J. Federer
http://youtu.be/-YpJjRzQDIM

Dear Critic,

What do you want from me with all these links you bombard me with, all that Jews/Muslims nonsense?
Do you think I have the time to research all that?
Why should I even care about the history of the conflict?

The fact is that we in Australia are under attack.
If that is not stopped, then we would soon be dead, certainly our older generations - the younger ones could still be allowed to survive for a while as slaves, digging till they drop, emptying the ores of Australia for our Chinese masters.

As part of WW-III, Xi has created a probe, a test, to see whether or not territorial achievements can be made in the 21st century using sheer military violence. And yes, for this experiment of his, he is happy to fight to the last Russian soldier. Whether Russia is right or not in the case of Ukraine is irrelevant because they are just a pawn here!

Once the world is freed of the Chinese menace, then it may be time to settle accounts with the US, but for now, nobody is going to give us nukes, and making our own even if we begin now will take some years, not to mention the means to deliver enough of them as a deterring second nuclear strike, so like it or not, we are at the Americans' mercy, at least so long as Xi BELIEVES that they are likely to come to our aid in a serious way.

Further, we cannot morally afford to be neutral and continue watching apathetically as the CCP oppresses anything in its way and bans every religion, allowing only the worship of the deified Xi.

The more convincing the American+European+British+Australian response in Ukraine, and I don't care who started that war and why, the more likely that will convince Xi that attacking Australia is not a good idea. This is what we should concentrate on now - helping and supporting Ukraine in any way we can, the rest is a philosophical luxury which we cannot afford.

Hey Yuyutsu,
I think I remember once that you said you were involved in Judaism many years ago before you changed to your current religion and had a fairly good knowledge of matters relating to Israel, if I remember correctly?

I do have an online Jewish mate, but I've never really hit him with those kinds of questions, maybe one day I will.
I've told him that I've looked into some of the conspiracy stuff here and there, but I don't really want to strain the relationship bring those kinds of things up.
He's a really decent bloke in my opinion, and knowing that changed my opinion and attitude on things, at least a little bit.

I was really only wondering what your opinion was on the first few links, if you had one;
- The rest I just threw in for good measure, as some of them are actually quite interesting, and today's TV, well there's not too much that's even worth watching.

There's actually another YouTube channel by an anthropologist I like, named Robert Sepehr who also has a video on Sabbatai Levi who proclaimed himself the Jewish Messiah in 1666.
He's got a lot of interesting videos.
http://www.youtube.com/user/818encino/videos

Dear Critic,

«I was really only wondering what your opinion was on the first few links, if you had one»

In my opinion, these are baseless sensation-seeking extrapolations.

"Jews" just like "Christians" and "Muslims" are anything but one group (at least Hindus do not claim to be a single group). They all had splinter groups and bitter internal divisions, mainly (but far from exclusively):
For Jews - between Hasidim and Mitnagdim.
For Christians - between Catholics and Protestants.
For Muslims - between Sunis and Shiites.

They all formed many sects and cults and one of the splinter Jewish groups that was formed on the background of Jewish suffering and desperation, was led by Shabtai Tsvi (the clips you pointed me to could not even pronounce his name correctly, sadly not even the English-language Wikipedia). Both him and similar later cult-leaders were not strong and intelligent leaders who implemented any premeditated sophisticated plans, but rather weak people who were swept by the events. If it meant having to convert to Islam or Christianity in order to save their skin, then so they did. Naturally, to try and save face, they produced fantastic excuses, presumably mystical, but all it really was were cheap excuses, rubbish born of weakness. Claiming that they had historical significance, that they changed the world or even planned to do so, is attributing them with much more than they ever deserved.

Dear Yuyutsu,

You wrote:

"Jews" just like "Christians" and "Muslims" are anything but one group. … They all had splinter groups and bitter internal divisions, mainly (but far from exclusively):

For Jews - between Hasidim and Mitnagdim.”

My grandfather was a Chassid who came from Riga, Latvia where he was named Velvel Sclaterovitch. In the 1870s or 1880s he met my grandmother while travelling in Lithuania and fell in love. She was a mitnagid named Rifka Levin living in Eishyshok, a town near Vilna, and he also became a mitnagid. They were both supposed to marry somebody else, but when they met everything changed. He went to Liverpool, England. From there he came to the US. He landed at Castle Garden, the predecessor to Ellis Island. He sent for my grandmother and moved to the Adirondacks near the Canadian border after having decided the
lower east side of New York City was not a proper place to raise children. They moved to Brandon, NY a settlement of about six families, not on any paved road. Brandon no longer exists, but that's where my mother was born on March 6, 1898. Since the town hall at Tupper Lake, NY was burned down her birth records are unavailable. My grandfather used the name of William Sclater in England and William Goldberg in the United States. Even though they lived in an area where almost all the other people were French Canadians they remained observant Jews. As a consequence my mother (born in USA spoke French before she learned English). A schohet (ritual slaughterer) occasionally visited to slaughter their animals and those of other isolated, observant Jews. Later they moved to Newman, N. Y. that became part of Lake Placid. There they lived on 21 Sentinel Road.

Hey david f,
I wonder if they ever related any strange stories of weird or mysterious things happening in the Adirondacks?
Good hearing about your stories.

I don't understand why Putin doesn't take out all the bridges and dams on the Dnipro and completely cut off the eastern side of the country off from the west, and be done with it?

I would've done this after the first 30 days.
Then I would've taken down all power and communications as well.
It's only dragging it out longer, and resulting in his own forces taking greater attrition.

AC

Do you think that the Russian army has a strategy in Ukraine beyond murdering civilians and destroying civilian housing and infrastructure? You might note that the Russian army is also using civilians as human shields. Given their initial battle plan was to take Kiev in a week then install a puppet government, I think their plans look more like a wish list.

The Ukranians seem to be trying to counterattack the Izyum advance and cut its supply lines. The real problem for the Russian army will come if they start running out of equipment. That could happen over the coming months. I hope that the turkey shoot of the btg attempting to cross the river is a prelude of things to come.

Hey Fester,
I don't know how it's all going to end.
I watched the Battle of Lang Tan movie last night.
War's a horrible thing.

Just read that the fighters holed up Azovstal have surrendered.
Part of me thinks the Russians should do to the Ukrainian prisoners of war what the Ukrainians did to Russian prisoners of war.

Watch this video and skip to 3mins 30 seconds
http://youtu.be/6S5Mv_ADPSE

Regular Russian soldiers are knee-capped, and the officers are shot in the head.

What a mess.

If you watch this video and skip to 7 mins it will show you some maps.
https://youtu.be/JrMiSQAGOS4
It will give you more of a clear picture of which part of the country were primarily Russian speaking / aligned citizens and which part of the country are mainly Ukrainian / Slavic aligned citizens.
The US wanted to overthrow the country in 2014, you can't really blame the Russian speaking people of Ukraine for not wanting to go along with it, when the new government in power after 2014 tried to ban the Russian language.

With that map in mind, you can almost see the parts of the country which Russia could take and who would rather be Russian citizens, and the ones who would rather be Ukrainian.

As for the Russian speaking people, if they're under attack by the new government since 2014 they should have a right to secede, and become independent with UN right of self-determination.
- And if they want to join Russia, that's up to them.
- But along those lines of seperation, Ukraine loses the Donbass, and Kolomoiskys steelworks (Hunter Biden and Zelensky are Kolomoiskys people) and access to the Black Sea, it becomes land-locked.

I've always said I think the best thing would be some kind of negotiated settlement, but I don't think Ukrainian nationalits will ever accept it.

3 cheers for western liberal intervention. (not)

You know all this started in when Yanukovych decided he didn't want to align with EU and NATO and take IMF loans, and chose Russia instead, and it was then the US went into action to cause civil unrest and organise the overthrow of the country in 2014. And it was Right Sector that turned the Maidan from a peaceful protest into a violent one when they had snipers shooting those peaceful protesters.

I keep telling you this whole mess is the Wests doing.
The result of their little games to mess with others lives for their sphere of influence.

Democracy is just a front company for western monetary policy.

Not much point trying to occupy the parts of the country that aren't likely to be aligned with Russia.

I honestly think that all Russia wanted was for Ukraine to remain a neutral country and not join NATO, and to stop supporting the NAZIs, which the US used to create this mess.

Russia would've been satisfied with an arrangement that made Ukraine like Mexico.
A nation with its own rules and government, but it cannot host Russian or Chines miltary assets or personnel.

Truly, I think that's all they wanted, but the US, well they think they can do whatever they like to anyone without any criticism.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/no-problems-none-putin-appears-to-back-off-threats-as-sweden-finland-prepare-to-join-nato-20220517-p5alvv.html

Putin's like "Yeah, righto fine- You just went from a country I wasn't planning on nuking, but now you're on the list too, congratulations"

He don't have to be a hardass about it, but you know for absolute certain he will now respond to the new situation by placing nukes in Kaliningrad.

Now it's about 120 seconds from launch to strike the UK instead of 202 seconds.

Look whos at it again
http://youtu.be/dEpD__wL4mc
She's got more blood on her hands than anyone

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/10/sri-lanka-flashpoints-in-deadly-violence-over-economic-crisis

Hi AC,

The propaganda war is interesting. So Ukraine has been tricked into fighting a proxy war for Nato and the US? Reminds me of Nazi propaganda claiming that the opposing forces were fighting a proxy war for the Jews.

The reason for that line of propaganda is to excuse the dismal performance of the Russian army. No, they aren't fighting Nato and the US. They are fighting a Ukrainian army partially equipped with western military hardware.

Putin does not want to look weak to Russians, hence the propaganda about the west scheming against him and how Russia could annihilate her enemies in a few minutes if she wanted to. Perhaps the Russian's really do believe they are conducting a humanitarian war in Ukraine by sparing the use of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, and instead using those well accepted humanitarian weapons of war, namely murder, rape, torture, looting, and the destruction of civilian housing and infrastructure.

How long do you think the Russians will last in Ukraine? The 777s are making a big difference I believe.

I think they can maybe take and hold what was Russian-speaking territory, maybe east of Kharkiv down to Dnipro and Zaporizhzhia.
I think they will be pushing their luck to occupy and hold cities west of there though.
It will take them some time though, and to try and take more would be costly, because they wont have the support of any citizens further west.
It will be fairly costly just to get that far I think.

Obviously Ukrainians in the West want to be their own independent country, and want to be a part of the EU and probably NATO.
Russian speaking eastern citizens would probably rather be aligned with Russia.
It would be hard to hold and occupy areas where even the people there don't want you.

People who think this is all about an attack on Ukraine and don't understand that this ACTUALLY all about NATO and the US being a existential threat to Russia, don't seem to comprehend that Putin is actively preparing for nuclear war.