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The Forum > General Discussion > what is there to negotiate?

what is there to negotiate?

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"We have had two terrible invasions,....With great sacrifices from the Russian people we have been able to defeat both. We fear another. "

Well there are any number of nations in that region who can use the same 'historic memory' to justify their current hopes and dreams.

Poland has been invaded by Russia 3 times in the past 100 years ( and 4 other times in the preceding centuries)and held as a captive state in the Soviet Empire for 50 years. Thousands were marched off to execution in the forests of eastern Europe and over 1 million were sent to the gulags on the other side of the planet, never to return. They have a right to protect themselves from their greatest threat.

Ukraine was the battlefield for the contest between Russia and Germany twice in the last century, suffering utter devastation each time. Additionally, in the intervening years between those wars, Ukraine was subjected to the greatest act of genocide in history by the same Russians who now seek to reincorporate her into their 'loving' arms.
Does Ukraine have a right to seek to protect herself from a 21st century repeat of her 20th century sufferings?

Equally the Baltic states suffered fates similar to Poland at the hands of the Russian bear throughout the 20th century. In many ways they suffered proportionally more than Poland with mass deportations and enforced Russification of the peoples. Are they allowed to seek protection from a repeat of that?

Russia sees the advance of NATO closer to her borders as a threat. But its not. Its a reaction to the past and ongoing threat that Russia poses to its neighbours.

When Peter the Great reimagined Russia as a great European power, he sought to insert himself into European affairs through expansion. In the ensuing 3 centuries Russia has either been a threat to Europe or complaining that Europe is a threat to them. Russia needs to pull back behind it recognised borders, stop seeking national aggrandisement and finding a way to live beside those its harassed for 3 centuries.
Posted by mhaze, Saturday, 5 March 2022 8:58:35 AM
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It's an impossible situation when on one hand people desire a strong & safe Nation to live in & on the other hand they desire the glitter of the Western life style which they perceive wrongly to be sustainable !
The West's manipulators hide the fact that they're further down the tube than Russia !
Posted by individual, Sunday, 6 March 2022 2:40:38 PM
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"The West's manipulators hide the fact that they're further down the tube than Russia"

Things aren't perfect in the West but this sentence shows someone who monumentally misunderstands what its like to live in a nation like Russia. When I first started visiting there in the 1980s it was aptly described as a third world country with first world weapons....things have gotten worse since then.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 6 March 2022 3:05:49 PM
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All is okay. Putin was thanking God for something or other today. Not sure what it was, maybe God was smiting Russia's enermy the godless Ukrainians, he tends to do a lot of that, smiting thou enemies stuff.

Good to hear God is on someone's side.
Posted by Paul1405, Sunday, 6 March 2022 4:28:51 PM
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Here is a report of the feelings of both Russia and Ukraine that identify their religious differences.
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/will.ukraines.christians.lose.their.religious.freedoms.if.russia.wins.the.war/138272.htm?f

Ukraineians will never adopt Rusian Orthodoxy.
Posted by Josephus, Sunday, 6 March 2022 4:30:18 PM
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a third world country with first world weapons..
mhaze,
What are the Yanks & Nato & Un worried about then ? Hell, the Yankers even rely on the Russians to go to the ISS in those backward rockets ?
If you want to find 3rd World conditions you don't need to go to 3rd World countries, you find that out the back of all affluent suburbs anywhere.
Just look at Australia which is a first World Nation & has to out-source it's most vital internet & communication to 3rd world countries. Now, I ask you who you see as the smarter nation ?
The one with the people with brains or the one with the money from exporting finite resources ?
Posted by individual, Sunday, 6 March 2022 6:36:59 PM
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