I watched 60 Minutes last night (15/08/2021) at
8.30pm on channel 9. The program was "Nazis Next
Door: Part One." Apparently Part 2 will continue
next Sunday.

I could not get my head around what I was seeing.
I thought this must be channel 9's attempt to
gear up its ratings with sensationalism. Here
were some young blokes claiming to belong to
Australia's largest neo-Nazi group, the National
Socialist Network being infiltrated and filmed
for our benefit? Even ASIO Chief Mike Burgess
granted an interview to channel 9.

This is a set up - kept running through my mind.
Surely this can't be for real - not in Australia!

Did anyone else watch this program.

What did any of you think? And more to the point -
what's going to be done (if anything) about it?

Dear Foxy,

«what's going to be done (if anything) about it?»

The solution is very simple: do not watch television.

Yuyutsu,

We should I suppose tell that to all the people
that want sensationalism in their TV programs.
I'm sure though that many people won't take what
was shown too seriously until the situation worsens.

I've always admired 60 Minutes - but I am now
questioning why it was necessary to give so much
publicity to this particular group. Many organizations
rely on publicity to not only survive but grow.
And that is why I'm questioning this. Where else would
this group have received this kind of exposure. And
it's going to be repeated over the next weeks.

I never watch 38 Minutes.

We're all surprised you can last that long.

Foxy
Doesn’t apply, if you comprehended what you read, I said I never watch 38 Minutes, that is a time span of zero.
I don’t know anyone who would watch it, even if it was 60 minutes long.

Dear Foxy,

Fortunately I have no idea what you and Is Mise are talking about.

I never had a television and that would be the last thing I need in my life (well apart from cancer, COVID and the like).

Yuyutsu,

It's good that you put your time to good use.

I'm beginning to learn to do the same.

I didn't watch it, but I do believe in equality.
- Maybe they're from White Lives Matters?

I think you should leave those nice young Australians boys alone.

- Better than whinging foreigners who weren't born here telling me everything I do and say is racist, and that somehow I'm an insult to them just for being white and male.

Hi AC,

According to ASIO Chief Mike Burgess this particular
group is considered a "real and growing threat to
Australia."

ASIO has grave concerns of their racist and dangerous
ideology. Young blokes as young as 16 are being
recruited. He reminded us that the Christchurch attacker
who gunned down 51 people in 2019 is known to have been
radicalised online by far right groups.

According to ASIO these guys are a nest of Australia's
far-right radicals. They're angry, armed, and plotting
and training for a white power race war.

Apparently they descended on a Victorian beauty spot
recently burning crosses and chanting racist slogans.
Many people feel that they should be classified as a
terrorist group.

I'm not sure that they can be described as harmless.

Yuyutsu,
The TV ‘waste of time’, “60 Minutes” is, because of the advertising content, commonly known as ‘38 Minutes’.

Hi Foxy,

I have not watched '60 minutes' in years, not for some ideological reason, but rather it become stale and boring. Something of the extreme right, other than the complete nutters like Blair Cottrell who openly demands Hitler's photo be displayed in every school classroom in Australia, the far right try and propagate the notion that Nazism died with Hitler in his bunker in 1945, whilst Communism and Communists are everywhere is Society. Some extremists find a home in parties like One Nation, but ON offers little opportunity to advance their political agenda, certainly in the short term. There is much more of a political advantage presented by membership of the mainstream parties on the moderate right, both Liberal and National.

Hi Foxy,
I was being part-serious, part-sarcastic.
- And there's actually a lot of points behind my small comment.

Firstly this is what happens when government takes a position of bowing to all the leftie groups
e.g. Constant talk of white privelidge, and promoting minorities;
Diversity quotas (give jobs to people who ARE NOT white)
Critical race theory, as well as promoting every minority or weird issue over mainsteam or normal issue.
That it's ok to be Black and proud, but NOT ok to be White and proud.
That all men are rapists etc.

When you push nothing but this constant load of BS
- Then some young white males are BOUND to push back.
You should remember who built this country, fair share of foreigners no doubt, but MOSTLY WHITE MALES.

They're the reason why we have what we have.

What's your problem with them exactly?
That they are white and proud, well they get punished for it don't they?
- there's no problem if you're black and proud, you get endless benefits, right?
What that they support socialism?
- Half this country supports socialist ideas, so that's not a big deal in itself either right.

That they want to put Hilter on their wall?
- Well they're hardly anymore dangerous than University protest group organisers that like to start protests in the middle of pandemics.
- And they're paid and their training was subsidised by the taxpayer.
Take a look at the bigger picture.

[Cont.]
Tell me is this groups beliefs any worse than beliefs occurring inside Mosques?
- Those people get to talk their extreme religious points of view, with a free tax break subsidised by the taxpayer.

What's more dangerous - Islam or National Socialism?
- The Nazi's don't want to kill me, I'm white but Muslims do want to kill infidels, that's all of us.

Why mention the Christchurch attacker, simply because he's white right?
I don't think that guy was a NAZI, I'm not exactly what blend of nutty he was.
But I do think there were positives, (shame people had to die for them)
- Like if your nutty people try to kill us or pose a threat to us, then our nutty people might try to kill you or pose a threat to you.

If that's what it takes for crazy Islamists to think twice...
- Not that I support it, lets make that part clear.

Maybe its because of a standard of pulling bumcheeks apart any time a Jewish person is offended by anything?
That Australia bows to Jewish anti-semite lobbyists more than it loves its own sons?
Especially it's white ones?

Going by front cover of any ad or brochure I pick up these days;
- the average Australian man is either Black or gay
- and the average Aussie woman is Chinese.

Hi AC,

Excellent posts and your reaction is exactly
one of the ones that we need to broaden this
discussion. If you re-read my posts - I was
merely reporting what I had seen and heard
and all I wanted to do by starting this
discussion was to open a debate on the issues.
I'm glad that you responded.

cont'd ...

However, I also need to remind you that ASIO
considers these young blokes as "a real and
growing threat to Australia," because they
do advocate violence. They are not just
harmless white men. And as history has shown
young men can be radicalized and kill people.

The Christchurch attacker who gunned down 51 people
in 2019 is known to have been radicalized online
by a far right group.

And these young blokes are already armed, and in training
and apparently plotting a white power race war.

Well, I'm not advocating this ok;
But what if they start to feel like society doesn't care about their concerns;
That with growing ethnicity they'll never have a voice in their own country
That foreigners have a voice and all the benefits
But they have neither a voice nor benefits and the few rights they have are trampled upon, because they have some magical white privilege thing
What do they do, do they just take it?

Now I could argue that whether a group is right or wrong
- be they fighting for either a supposed right or wrong reasons;
For whatever reason they may feel backed into a corner and that they have no choice to stand up for their rights.

For me, I think things start getting real hazy when people start to think that:
'The ends justifies the means'
- Because that's the mindset of terrorists.

I believe everyone has the right to live however they choose so long as it doesn't have a negative or detrimental (harm) impact on others.
- And generally speaking I wish for the best for everyone.

Hi AC,

Again - I wish the best for everyone as well.
However these guys are advocating violence
and harm to others and therein lies the
difference. And they are breaking the law
by doing so.

Hi AC,

The following link from the Attorney General's
office explains Australia's laws concerning the
urging of violence and advocating terrorism:

http://www.ag.gov.au/national-security/australias-counter-terrorism-laws/urging-violence-and-advocating-terrorism-offences

Just why are TV and some leading newspapers running a recruiting campaign for these oddballs?

I lasted for 5 minutes online with this crap that looked like a trailer for a Marvel movie.

The presenter advised that viewers were "likely to be outraged" - cue for the usual suspects. I was amazed and amused by the idiots being spied on, the Boys' Own drama of the reporter, and the fact that the skin-head ASIO type was the only Nazi look-alike.

A silly little time waster from the ABC with advertisements, and a couple of left wing rags.

The program was on channel 9 not the ABC.
And there were skin-heads shown. But
more importantly the violence being advocated
was more disturbing as were the Nazi salutes
and posing holding a picture of Adolf Hitler.

Foxy,
Wow!! Posing with a picture of Der Fuhrer
Years ago we used to have his picture up at pistol and rifle clubs but then it became illegal to fire at a likeness of Hitler, Mussolini et al,
That’s progress.

Those symbols are linked to hatred and racism,
state-based mass murder, and tyranny and should not
be allowed to rise again.

In the past few decades several European countries
have banned displays of the swastika, and - the hammer and
sickle (Hungary, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine).

The Swastika was stolen by the Nazis and is an ancient religious symbol, still used by millions of people, to ban it is to shew ignorance and intolerance of others’ deeply held beliefs.

The following link explains the ancient symbol:

http://bbc.com/news/magazine-29644591

Australian federal police support legislation banning
the extremist symbol and majority of Australians
apparently agree according to a survey undertaken by
the Social Research Centre. The Head of ASIO Mike
Burgess stated that the ideology motivated
terrorism that the symbol has come to represent - which
includes right-wing extremism under the spy agency's
definitions now comprises 40% of its counter-terrorism
work.

Apparently the Victorian Parliament's law and social
affairs committee has recommended that the state should
bring in laws banning the Nazi symbol from being
publicly displayed.

It may have had different meanings in the past - but not
any more to most people.

Kudos AC.

My understanding is the NZ Shooter wasn't really radicalized by far right groups in Australia per se- he gives a list of his motivations in his manifesto. I believe that the Norway Shooter manifesto was mentioned.

My understanding of Australian Nationalist groups is that they are explicitly anti-aggression- they don't see the point in challenging the police. However they will defend themselves. On the other hand Antifa create conflict by turning up and acting aggressively at nominally right wing talks. I saw a movie of antifa activists jumping on stage and shaking buses with attendees on board. A Hong Kong protester in Sydney got a Quick Lime Milkshake in his face and had to go to hospital.

Most of the terrorist and intelligence concerns by ASIO are Islam and foreign government actor related. In fact they have warned government and they haven't listened. It could be said that the rise in the so called Far Right National Socialists (as AC has related) are a reaction to a lack of action by government to threats.

Usually when understanding someones point of view I ask "why" they believe what they do rather than just "what".

I'm not completely across this issue but these young men are loyal to Australia- perhaps more loyal than most of us.

I believe they have made some effort to point their point across in the media for the community to judge them but the media have shut them down- the media don't really need to infiltrate their organization as it freely says what it believes.

Every community has there own view of politics- whether it is the Hebrews, the Muslims, the Communists, the Business Community, the British Australian Traditionalists, etc, etc. All of them act in their own interest- to discredit and destroy the other side sometimes by fair or foul means. Sometimes as within the Business Community the Hebrew community has perhaps strong roots as the Communists have within the Labor and Greens and Union movements. Strangely the Communists have at times labelled the Business Community as Nazi's it's interesting when the Business Community member is also Jewish.

This is where the Communists say that a Jewish person can identify as a Nazi- fascinating.

At the end of the day don't believe the TV, Facebook, or Communists.

What right do the Communist Media have to act as Judge for us?

Personally I'm happy for people to believe what they like as long as they don't advocate aggressive violence (rather than defensive violence). They need to think for themselves for their survival. Violence comes in many forms and of course the biggest purveyer of violence is usually the government- but that's sometimes for the best.

The main stream media seemingly has become increasingly irrelevant to the masses and this space has become occupied by Communist cranks. Sadly legislators still apparently treat the main stream media as relevant and point to it to justify their crazy positions

Poor old Foxy hasn't heard Chanel 9 referred to as the ABC with advertisements because of its Leftist leanings.

Australia is a rule of law country. People are entitled to congregate as long as the don't break any laws. I find people calling themselves Nazis quite pathetic; but they are entitled to make fools of themselves as long as they don't break the law. After all, the extreme left Greens are allowed to operate in Australia.

ASIO keeps an eye on many groups. That's its job. Hell, one of my harmless lefty brothers had, and might still have, a file with them. He certainly had one with the old Special Branch and the then Commonwealth Police.

It's interesting that at the end of WWII and during the cold war they hired many Communists for the CIA- perhaps that is also the case in the Australian ASIO.

Dear CM,

You write: “I'm not completely across this issue but these young men are loyal to Australia- perhaps more loyal than most of us.”

Yes you are obviously not across the issue. Australians fought and died to stop Nazis. Having the Hitler salute raised in earnest is definitely un-Australian in the extreme.

To be openly proclaiming that Hitler was the greatest man who ever lived in the last 2,000 years is unAustralian.

To be chanting “Ku Kux Klan” in a cave in the Grampians with indigenous paintings is unAustralian.

For you to claim:”My understanding of Australian Nationalist groups is that they are explicitly anti-aggression”. Is just bonkers.

http://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/neo-nazi-groups-homegrown-aussie-neo-nazi-groups-living-backyard-seen-holding-camps/82cf90ba-ee1b-4044-a811-6412052653e6

Foxy,
To not know that the Swastika is a revered symbol of divinity and spirituality is to shew gross ignorance and an attitude of laziness, all that one has to do is Google to achieve enlightenment; in India alone it is revered by millions, not to mention millions in Asia.

Dear Steele,

Thank You for the link and your well reasoned
comments. Their organization is
not a "nationalist group." And it's absurd to
suggest that these misguided people are any sort
of - "patriots." Also to suggest that
the Head of ASIO Mike Burgess might be a
communist is also quite disturbing.

These blokes
are extremists, fanatics, un-Australian -
and their ideology motivates terrorism. They and
their symbols are linked to hatred and racism,
state-based mass murder and tyranny. The following
link explains further:

http://theage.com.au/national/inside-racism-hq-how-home-grown-neo-nazis-are-plotting-a-white-revolution-20210812-p58i3x.html

This organisation like the ones it's trying to emulate
should not be allowed to rise.

Is Mise,

I have already given a link on the swastika's history prior
to your accusation of ignorance on my part.. You obviously
missed reading it. You should not make assumptions until
you have all the facts. In any case I am fully aware of the
ancient origins of the swastika sign. It was used as a
positive symbol in ancient Lithuania as well. The Lithuanian
language is part of the Indo-European languages and
Sanskrit words are part of the Lithuanian language.

However, we are not discussing the ancient symbols here
but the Nazi symbol and what it represents.

Foxy,
Thanks for that link, what a load of sensational drivel, if the subjects of the article didn’t know that they had been infiltrated then they do now.
Or is the infiltration but an invention to make a windup more believable to the gullible?

Foxy,
As the Swastika of the Nazis is exactly the same as the Swastika of ancient and modern religious usage how are those who would ban to tell them apart?
Or do they propose to ride rough shod over others’ cultural heritage?
Do you agree that it should be banned?

I have already provided the link to
the ancient symbol of the swastika on
page 5 of this discussion but here it is
again for those who missed it:

http://bbc.com/news/magazine-29644591

cont'd ...

YES I believe the Nazi symbol should be banned!

cont'd ...

The following link explains further:

http://qz.com/india/1068860/how-nazis-twisted-the-swastika-a-symbol-of-buddhism-hinduism-jainism-into-an-emblem-of-hate/

Quoting from the link:

"In the cultures where it's been used for centuries in
religious practices or in the decorative arts the
question of banning it is unnecessary. The symbol doesn't
carry any negative connotations there."

"In our Western society, the swastika is tainted. The
Nazi movement's violent crimes against humanity gave
the symbol a meaning that can't be concealed or
erased. It's hate-filled racist intentions are clear.
It wasn't an innocent symbol for the Nazis, nor is it for
latter-day neo Nazis and white supremacists."

Foxy
So you think that minorities in Australia should be banned from shewing symbols of their cultural heritage.
I disagree and see such a notion as racist and divisive.

Foxy's opened a can of worms on this one.
I'm going to need some time to decide if they should be banned and have their properties confiscated, etc,
i.e. - the proposed outcome of what you're suggesting.

In the meantime, watch the video in this article and tell me if you think the Mayor ran the red light.
I reckon that based on the time the red traffic light you can see turns green, that the Mayor did in fact run a red light, not an amber one.
What do you all think?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-18/townsville-mayor-court-jenny-hill-not-guilty-fatal-crash/100386244

Interesting links- but I still can't see from the article that their core activities are illegal. Yes spray painting Hitler at the train station is probably illegal if the claims of the lefty journalists are correct- but this would need to be proven- hardly a terrorist act though. As the authorities said most of what is said is bluster in private context. If the police believed they were doing something illegal they would have charged them. Obviously the intelligence community need to be careful but personally I believe there are bigger threats from the Chinese and elsewhere to Australia. I'm sure these groups are aware that the police and intelligence communities have extensive surveillance resources- they perhaps of the believe that multiculturalism doesn't work and leads to conflict- something that many leaders in Europe have acknowledged. So their actions could equally be considered defensive against these perceived threats.

Politicians have failed to listen to the public views on immigration for many years in favour of perceived economic advantages- lobbied by the few- usually in favour of lower wages.

I'm surprised those on the left support these policies at all- but the institutional left is already under the sway of all encompassing communist totalitarianism. Little wonder that British Australians now feel threatened. One way for the government to take the heat out of this issue is to reverse their aggressive immigration policies.

Otherwise I fear these young men may be in a sense right.

Communists also talk of revolution constantly.

Nobel Prize Winner Joseph Stiglitz says "No one will support policies in which they are disadvantaged".

This is interesting...

http://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/crown-launches-urgent-investigation-into-employee-identified-as-neo-nazi-20210816-p58j3m.html

The chair of the Anti-Defamation Commission, Dvir Abramovich, said on Monday morning that the investigation was a timely wake-up call and a reminder that violent extremists were a real threat.

Answer- It seems that the head of the Anti-Defamation Commission is "defaming someone" by implication. Most people in the know believe that the ADC (and the ADL) evolved through the Hebrew community and has links with Israel/ Hebrew policy makers and lobbyists. As such they could be assumed to have Hebrew interests at heart over and above those of other cultures- ie. they themselves are perhaps racist.

I have no problem if the ADC is biased in favour of the Hebrew Community but it's important that those listening that they understand why the ADC believe what they do. In this sense all communities are biased in favour of themselves- in a sense everyone is "racist"- this is one of the foundations of capitalism- enlightened self interest- the invisible hand.

All cultures need their own nation

The far right often make the claim, Nazis, oh they don't exist, maybe there are a few lads out there playing at some game, but nothing serious. Brenton Tarrant and the events at Christchurch shows what these lads with their games are capable of. Yes the apologists with say such things as; "Yes spray painting Hitler at the train station is probably illegal if the claims of the lefty journalists are correct- but this would need to be proven- hardly a terrorist act though." Its all one big game ah CM?

Perhaps Paul1405 could clean the pool for the minority reporters. The twins wouldn't let him in.

For the far right, dealing with the uncomfortable truth of Hitler and Nazis is difficult, it just wont go away. They dream up all sorts of excuses and deflections. Hitler was socialists, ie lefty, not them, Nazis all died in 1945, they don't exist today, its just a bunch of kids playing games.

The far right are like Basil Fawlty; "I mentioned the war, but I think I got away with it." Basil ended up goose stepping around the dinning room, with the German tourist left crying and screaming.

A storm in a teacup, just like the momentary bleating about an auction of German military, or Nazi if you like, memorabilia recently. Squeak, squeak and it was all over. So was the auction, with heaps of money made. Bellyaching about Nazis, the Huns, the Goths, the Gauls - all part of history - is piss weak, and indicative of small mindedness of the sort regularly exhibited here by the Three Cranks.

Dr Rebecca Green, a lecturer in graphic design
with the University of NSW School of Art and
Design talks about the danger of symbols and
I thought her comments were relevant
due to the recent media coverage on the subject.

Some of the views she expressed were that - "symbols
are powerful things and should always be used with
care."

She stated that this becomes a critical factor when
symbols become weaponised, as was the case with
the Nazi regime. Symbols don't exist on their own.
They have a relationship with what they represent.

She tells us that the Nazi party's clear branding
and skilful use of rhetorical techniques like
repetition of symbols was a masterstroke in galvanising
so many people.

She points out that the swastike is thousands of
years old, appearing in many cultures and is still a
symbol of good fortune for Hindus, Buddhists and
Jains. However what is disturbing and scary about
the Nazi swastika is the fact that it is a visual
symbol for a cruel regime that expounded hate and
genocide in the name of nationalism and racial
purity.

And equally frightening is the fact that it is now
being used to symbolise the neo Nazi movement
spreading throughout the globe - not only in
Australia.

A symbol of hate and division.

For the far right, dealing with the uncomfortable truth of Hitler and Nazis is difficult, it just wont go away. They dream up all sorts of excuses and deflections. Hitler was socialists, ie lefty, not them, Nazis all died in 1945, they don't exist today, its just a bunch of kids playing games.

The far right are like Basil Fawlty; "I mentioned the war, but I think I got away with it." Basil ended up goose stepping around the dinning room, with the German tourist left crying and screaming.
Posted by Paul1405

Answer- In a sense I guess that's something the right have in common with the left.

This is interesting...

http://yale.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.12987/yale/9780300106497.001.0001/upso-9780300106497-chapter-24

"Given his reputation, one may ask whether Joseph Stalin was really a Communist. This question acquired direct practical significance after the revolution against Stalinism that culminated in 1991. Both anti-Communists of the left and the proponents of perestroika in the Soviet Union insisted that Stalinism was a criminal betrayal of the revolution and of Marxist ideals. Stalin's commitment to Marxism and even to socialism only served to camouflage the establishment of a new oriental despotism."

The implication above is that Stalin was the exception rather than the rule for socialism and communism where the evidence doesn't seem to hold up. Trotsky the preferred academic poster boy of communism would have allowed many more starvation deaths in the name of the revolution- any dissent is seen as counter revolutionary and subject to summary execution or "Gulag time". Perhaps many would prefer Gulag time to the current woke strategy of denying employment- in a sense this results in the same "breeding program ethnic cleansing" instituted under the worst regimes. Stalin's speeches were post-cluded with clapping that lasted for hours because those that stopped clapping were visited at bedtime by assassins- you can see the same virtue signalling occurring in work houses today.

Herbert Marcuse the founder of the new left was probably a communist- his books founded their principles- such as "Eros in favour of Logos" and "The One Dimensional Man" or whatever they were called.

Foxy,
You haven’t said aught about the rights of minorities, something that you have stood up for in the past.
I have an ornate belt that has a Swastik among the other Hindu symbols with which it is adorned in brass cut-outs.
It was given in appreciation of a well wth a Stirling pumping engine, the installation of which I supervised on one of my mate’s estates.

Is Mise,

I don't support all minorities. Certainly not
minority extremists or fanatics who are
seeking to promote hatred and white supremacy
or attack racial and ethnic minorities or who
want to create a fascist state.

As for your swastika belt?

Good luck with wearing that!

Foxy,
You are evading the point, which is that minorities in Australia for whom the Swastika is a religious or cultural symbol should be allowed to use/shew it as appropriate.
Your attitude that because the Nazis stole it and used it all people in the west should be refused it’s use is bigoted to say the least.
The Nazis also used Mercedes Benz cars, going to ban them as well?

Is Mise,

I'm not evading the question at all.

I thought I made it quite clear that
the swastika should be banned for
those who are going to use it for
promoting hatred and white supremacy.
You're not one of those people I would
assume.

As for banning the Mercedes? It as far as I
know was only one of many cars that played a big
role in Nazi Germany. German manufacturers supported
the Nazi party and donated cars and donated money.

However, it was the swastika that most people identify
as a Nazi symbol - not the Mercedes car.

Foxy,
No, you did not make it clear; so are you now happy with Hindus, Jains etc., in Australia using the Swastika?
The belt, bye the way, is not meant for wearing but is in the nature of the belts on which Horse Brasses are displayed.
I treasure it muchly as each of the seven symbols on it was hand made by each of the men in my team of pump installers.
Each Stirling engined pump stands about 7 feet tall weighs nearly a ton and drives a pump 1 1/2 inch diameter by 8 inch stroke, they are highly inefficient but can be run on dried cow dung so they are cost effective to run; beef or mutton dripping can be used for lubrication if the sump oil supply runs out.
The mate’s father bought 50 of them in around 1900 and, at last count there were still 6 in storage..
All but a few of the originals are still working, those that aren’t were washed away in floods.

"I have an ornate belt that has a Swastika" Issy, is that the one good old Heinrich gave you when you joined the SSAA?

Is Mise,

I said that only the Nazi swastika should be banned
in Western nations. And many of those nations that
suffered under the Nazis have banned the Nazi symbol.
Including - Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine, and
even Germany itself.
I did not say that any other ancient versions
resembling the swastika should be banned. The ancient
versions are used for totally
different purposes - be they - decorative or religious.

We appreciate your explanations about your belt and trust
that your misunderstanding did not cause you any undue
concern.

Take care.

Is Mise,

Read the following link:

http://sbs.com.au/news/right-a-wrong-calls-for-nazi-symbols-to-be-outlawed-across-australia-as-victoria-movestowards-ban

cont'd ...

Is Mise,

Sorry - I'm tired, please excuse my typo.

Here's the link again:

http://sbs.com.au/news/right-a-wrong-calls-for-nazi-symbols-to-be-outlawed-across-australia-as-victoria-moves-towards-ban

Foxy,
The problem remains re how to tell the difference between a Nazi swastika and a Hindu etc., swastika.
Until that can be done minorities in Western countries are going to be unfairly discriminated against.

The Ku Klux Klan use the.Christian Cross as a symbol as do the Neo-Nazis should that be banned as well?
The article that you linked specifically mentioned the burning cross symbol.

Is Mise,

The Nazi Swastika is very visually distinct.
It also was/is used for a very distinct purpose.
To spread hatred. I doubt if the police is going
to raid your home or the home of any one else
or discriminate against anyone unless they use the
swastika for evil purposes and break the law
in doing so. You can have no fears in that regard.

As for the burning cross? Christians do not burn
crosses. Extremists do. So you suggestions of whether
we should ban the Christian cross is absurd.

One last thing - I would politely suggest that you
get someone else to explain these things to you. You don't
seem to be making any headway in understanding what's
being said. Perhaps your wife will have more success
in talking to you.

Anyway, I wish her luck.

Deng Xiao Ping pulled capitalism under the banner of communism and has now infected the western global companies.

As Churchill implied the Westminster System has issues but it's much better than Communism- despite it's claims about equality. The modern regime hides Communism under a veil of civility- try to talk of certain subjects on social media and in the media and you'll find out how open and civil they really are- all under a structure of unilateral personal control by people divorced from the culture.

These young men appear to have suffered for their beliefs- so you have to admire their commitment- in the face of overwhelming odds- even if you disagree with them

Foxy,
How is the. Nazi swastika visually distinct, it is exactly the same as the Hindu et al swastikas, please explain how to tell them apart?

As for the Christian Cross, to the Jews it is a sign of repression as it is to our Muslims, it is the sign of the Crusader, a term not loved by alslam.

Suggest that you read a little more widely and increase your general knowledge.

Now that you are a bit more enlightened you should be willing to ban the Cross as you have demonstrated commendable support for the feelings of minorities in the past.
You might bear in mind also that the Swastika was also used in Christianity.

Is Mise,

What I was referring to regarding the Nazi swastika
being distinct was the fact that the symbol was made
by Hitler in 1920 as the centerpiece of the Nazi flag.
He combined the swastika with three colours - red, black,
and white. And today it is used by certain
extremist groups promoting hate hence this Nazi symbol
is banned in a number of cultures - including Germany.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

As for banning any religious symbols? I am not aware of any
religious symbols that promote hate in our country and
I think that Section 116 of our Constitution provides for
the free exercise of religion.

cont'd ...

BTW: I have already stated that the swastika is an
ancient symbol that was in use in many different
cultures from at least 5,000 years before Hitler
made it the centerpiece of the Nazi flag. Hence
the distinction and its banning. It was used
by the Nazi party and today is used by certain
extremist groups to promote hate. It is banned in
a number of countries for the evil it represents.

Hi Foxy,

Well said, thinking people are well aware of the evil connotations associated with the swastika, certainly within our western society. Issy is simply being purposely obtuse to stir the pot. As for the Christian cross and the KKK, the KKK in their perverted way believe they are acting out Christianity through their bigoted hatred. Issy's SSAA is closely associated with the American NRA, which in turn is associated with the KKK, having many members in common. Issy do you have any like minded pals in Alabama?

Foxy,
How do you tell the difference between the Celtic Cross beloved of Irish Catholics and Protestants alike and the Celtic crosses used by White supremacists groups in Europe, America and Australia.
Should it not be banned as a symbol of racism and hatred?
You say nought about the Christian Cross being a symbol of oppression to Jews and also to Muslims.
Those who would ban anything should be concistent.

I liked your naive suggestion that the police would err on the side of fairness; give the police power over anything and a small minority will always abuse the law, sometimes with tacit Government approval.

Issy, is it of concern to you that gunnie associated organisations conduct secret rituals, involving said paraphernalia behind closed doors. Are you concerned that your pet organisation the SSAA has tie-back associations with the KKK through the gun crazy NRA? I see you are avoiding this question as it exposes "sinisterality" (my word) at home.

Paul,
Evidence?

Evidence;

"James Ashby and Steve Dickson were covertly filmed during a series of meetings with powerful pro-gun advocates in Washington USA. Ashby and Dickson wanted millions of dollars in political donations from America's National Rifle Association and discussed softening policies on gun ownership as it tried to secure the funding."

Its my understanding Ashby and Dickson are members of the paramilitary SSAA. SSAA ....> NRA ....> KKK, sad Issy, very sad.

Hi Paul and Is Mise,

There are hate symbols databases on the internet all
one has to do is Google them. They provide an
overview of many of the symbols most frequently
used by a variety of white supremacist groups and
movements, as well as some other types of hate groups.

It's quite clear that hate symbols must be evalutated
in the context in which they appear. Few symbols represent
just one idea or are used exclusively by one group. All
we can do is evaluate the context in which and for what
they are being used. That way we can tell the difference
as to what their aims are and what they are promoting or
hoping to achieve.

Here's just one link as an example:

http://adl.org/hate-symbols?keys=Celtic%20cross

There's more on the web.

cont'd ...

Part II of the 60 Minutes TV program - "The
Nazis Next Door" will be shown tomorrow -
22/08/2021 on channel 9 at 8.30 pm for anyone
interested in what's happening in this country.

I'm not sure if I shall be able to sit through
the entire program. It is quite stressful.
Those of you with a strong stomach might be able
to do it. Anyway, I'll see how I go.

Also I guess we'll have to wait and see what
symbols that are being used for hate -
our federal, state, and local authorities
will decide tp ban.

Foxy,
You’re starting to get there.

Paul,
That’s not evidence, that’s merely hearsay.
We’re they commissioned by the SSAA or were they trying a scam all on their own?
Did the NRA give them any money?
Were they the originators or were they sucked in by agents provocateur?

Is Mise,

I shall give your validation all the consideration
that it rightly deserves.

Thank you Foxy, I knew that you’d see sense. The

Is Mise,

What you see depends largely on what
you look for.

Is a pair of crossed swords Scottish or Arabic and what does each meam? One is lain down the other displayed upright.

Foxy,
When you see the Celtic Crosses displayed by right wing racist extremists you’ll understand what the.cross stands for and will undoubtedly wish, being consistent to ban it.

Josephus,

Two crossed swords are symbols used in heraldry
and as a symbol of a battle. 2 crossed swords pointing
upwards means ready to fight.
Pointing down means the fight is over.

Is Mise,

I love the mythology associated with the Celtic Cross
and I have several pieces of jewelry with the Celtic
Cross. I've also done several paintings and drawings.
And given them away as gifts.

Lithuania was the last place in Europe to adopt
Christianity. Before 1387 when the Grand Duchy of Lithuania
was finally baptised into Roman Catholicism its people
were pagans. The central characteristic of their religion
was the veneration of the forces of nature held to be
sacred, personified in the form of various deities.

You see:

I come from a tribe
of nature worshippers
Pantheists, believers in faeries
forst sprites, and wood nymphs
who heard devils in their windmills,
met them in the woods, cloven-hoofed
and dapper gentlemen of the night
who named the god of thunder
who praised and glorified bread
dark rye waving
waist-high out of earth
and held it sacred, who spent afternoons
mushrooming in forests
of pine, fir, and birch
who transferred Jesus
from his wooden cross
transformed Him
into a wood-carved, worrying peasant
raised Him on a wooden pole above the crossroads
where He sat with infinite patience
in rain and snow, wooden legs apart
wooden elbows on wooden knees
wooden chin in wooden hand
worrying and sorrowing for the world ...
These people who named their sons and daughters
after amber, rue, dawn, storm
and the only people I know who have a diminutive
form for God Himself - Dievulis, "God - my -little-buddy."

No wonder I catch myself speaking
to trees, flowers - these eucalyptus, so far
from Eastern Europe - or that I bend down to the earth
gather pebbles, acorns, leaves, boles, bring
them home, enshrine them on mantlepieces
or above porcelain fixtures, any wonder
I grow nervous in rooms
and must step outside and touch a tree
or sink my toes in dirt, watch the birds fly.

It was the gentile Roman Constantine who first introduced the Roman cross into Christianity, which he felt had sacred power and unfortunately has been adorned with power ever since. However it is not the cross that saves, but the death of a righteous man who gave his life in seeking forgivness. It is the character of the person of Jesus and not two peices of wood used by Roman Soldiers. Constantine used this symbol in his armies and it has been used ever since by those who call themselves Christians who believe it holds power.

I still haven't made my mind up on this, but I tend to think the answer is no, that I don't support them being labelled a terror group or having property seizure or anything else;

- At least until you pull the social engineering back to an equitable level.

If you're going to have such laws as diversity quotas, which discriminate against white people, and often use the term 'white male' is a disparaging sense then I won't support persecuting them.

I won't support screwing white people over within the guises of 'democracy', and then conducting other forms of lawfare and punishment against them when the government itself created unfair laws, and themselves stokes the flames of their discontent.

If they're making pubic threats of violence, then they should be charged for these offenses like anyone else if they are, but their free speech should also be respected.
You may not agree with their opinions on things, but are they not entitled to them?

Also the nine news article specifically features Jewish opinions.
- And an attempt to control the speech of Australians because of what happened to them as Jews.

I don't have a problem with white people taking a position of white pride, it's no different than Black Pride in principle
Black lives Matters (But all Lives matter is not allowed);
I just wish they didn't have to align themselves with a NAZI ideology to feel proud about white mans achievements, I think that's sad.

And for the record, I never really cared about race, (I've got a tiny little bit of indigenous in me too) but the polarized environment forces me to stand up for what's right.

If they don't make the laws that punish white people for being white equal, then I'm not supporting their claims that these people be labelled terrorists.

As a side note, I'm not sure that hating someone or something should instantly be be considered a crime in and of itself anyway?
They may be valid reasons.

Hi AC,

Sorry to read that you still haven't made up
your mind on these extremists and that you're
finding excuses for them. That I find disturbing.
Or perhaps I should give you the benefit of the
doubt that you're only partly serious - as
you were previously.

We can't just ignore ASIO who has revealed that rght-wing
extremism accounts for half of their counter-terrorism
work and the Australian Federal Police have also warned
that young Australians are being aggressively radicalised
by these right-wing extremists.

It's been made clear that we need to take their advice
seriously, which starts by making sure that our terrorism
laws and our counter-terrorism violent extremism programs
are up to date and fit for dealing with this fanaticism.

There is no place in our country for the hatred and
division being promoted by these extremists. ASIO has
told us that disinformation is deliberately used by
these people who want to create division and disunity
in our country. We should not buy into what they're
selling.

If you haven't made up your mind - watch 60 Minutes at
8.30 pm tomorrow night on channel 9. It may help you
to decide where you stand and what sort of Australia you
want to live in.

Hi Josephus,

Thank You for giving us additional information
about the crosses.

Much appreciated.

I still want to know what the difference is between the Swastika displayed by the Nazis and the Swastika of the Hindus ef al.
It is a Sanskrit word, meaning “well being” and is ancient.
To ban it because the Nazis used it would be a victory for intolerance and a victory for Naziism .

Hi Foxy,
I haven't watched 60 minutes from last week, and it would probably help if I saw just exactly what they are doing.

I know that often people don't agree with me, but I tend to stand up for what I think is right in principle.

I think if it's ok to have black pride, then in principle it's also ok to have white pride, but I don't personally support any NAZI ideology.
- But I probably would find myself agreeing with at least some of these peoples grievances;
Not NAZI ideology, but discrimination against white people.

I see it all as social engineering, powered by UN migrant quotas.
Change the people - Change the government.
And it works, look where we are at.
Both major parties now look the same, both have been squeezed into one, by political correctness and changed demographics due to immigration, and promotion of these people views over the traditional views of the white majority that lived here and mostly built this nation.

You say, "There is no place in our country for the hatred and
division being promoted by these extremists."
Okay, but what if the hatred and division isn't being promoted by them?
Are they the ones disparaging white males? No
Are they the ones who created diversity quotas to ensure whites don't get the job? No

The government promoted this division.
And I'm saying if you create unfair laws, then you should expect pushback.
That pushback is in itself a part of democracy, that everyone be allowed their view.

And everyone else, 99% of white people won't say shite about these laws, and why?
Because they're coerced into silence, they don't want to be hunted and exposed by an out-of-control leftie narrative that claims they're racist. These people will go to your employer and get you fired, or destroy your business and livelihood. These people know no limits in wanting to screw with the lives of others for what they believe.

But if a white person says things are unfair, you want to put him in jail and seize his property?

Kudos AC.

There was evidence of escaped Nazis from Eastern Europe infiltrating the Liberal party, and more recently young Nazis infiltrating the National party, with no guarantee that they all have been expelled. Remembering its the Liberals and Nationals that gave us such people as Pauline Hanson, Barnaby Joyce, Peter Dutton, George Christensen Cory Bernardi and Craig Kelly etc, some real ratbags in that mob!

Is Mise,

The differences between the two swastikas?

The differences are what they represent and mean to people:

The Nazi swastika became a symbol of hatred and fear in the
20th century - so wedded to the poisonous ideology of hate
that today it is reviled in the West and is banned in certain countries.

Whereas the swastika in the East remains popular within
Buddhist and Hindu society. It is an auspicious and sacred
symbol. No one is suggesting it be banned.

The swastika is a prime example of how one symbol can
have entirely different meanings in different cultures.
Care must be taken always to judge symbols in context.

Hi AC,

Let me get this straight. Are you comparing these neo-Nazis
to the global "Black Lives Matter" movement that arose in
the US? One group preaches hatred and advocates violence
and the other is seeking justice and a level playing
field. I guess the choice is yours as to how you view
things, and who you want to support. Perhaps watching
the program on 60 Minutes tonight might clarify things for
you.

As far as I know most white men in this country are not
abused, and exclusively policed by law enforcement officers
as the black people are in the US. They're not beaten,
punished, and often killed. They don't suffer systemic
racism at the core of their criminal legal system. Most
whites don't suffer racism and human rights violations
in this country.

Virginia Haussegger pointed out that we have a country where
white privilege rules. That "our federal Parliament is
overwhelmingly run by white men who hold the majority of
power, influence, and key decision-making roles. They
dominate among state premiers and chief ministers, across all
defence forces, our judiciary academia, local government, and
across all religious denominations."

She said that "white men rule the majority of Australia's
publicly listed companies, they overwhelmingly control the
boards, our financial institutions, and our banks, and they
operate in workplace environments that severely lack
gender and ethnic diversity. What's more they get paid more
than any one else to do it."

cont'd ...

AC,

To suggest that white men are somehow missing out
is daft. And has a heavy whiff of racism and prejudice.

Australia's sense of national community has been founded on
a solidarity that shuns diversity so your views don't come
as a surprise. And today Australia's major institutions,
including as already mentioned, politics, higher
education, media, the arts, and the public service all
still fail to reflect the massive demographic shift in
recent years.

"Not all migrant minority communities enjoy the same
level of respect, equality, freedom, and opportunity as
the wider white Australian population. If this was the
case, then a truly successful multi-cultural nation would
look very different."

It is nothing short of embarrassing
that in modern-day Australia almost all
senior roles in government or business
are held by white men.

The true extent of Australia's "fair-go" mantra will not
depend in the future so much on the transmission of older
values and symbols to newer more diverse Australians.

Rather it will depend fundamentally on their life experiences
in employment, and education, being free of white privilege.
This will determine whether they truly believe there's a
level playing field.

Liberal Party power broker Eric Abetz has family links to Nazi Germany. Abetz great-uncle Heinrich Otto Abetz was Hitler's ambassador to Paris and a convicted Nazi war criminal. "Depending on who you want to believe, he was one of the people that helped exterminate a number, or huge numbers, of Jews," The Abetz family fled Europe and settled in Tasmania in 1961. Eric spoke German at home and English at school. Eric Abetz is considered part of the right wing of the Liberal Party.

In reference to Foxy and Paul1405 the following links might be relevant. The Identity Politics and Feminist archetypes are "interesting".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efA6B2EKLN4

Deterritorialization could be a way of literal deterritorialization of ethnicities in a similar way to internationally displaced persons such as the Hebrew's experienced for thousand's of years. Foxy seems to be an advocate of such policies- look forward to Foxy appearing on the "Hebrew ADL's" list soon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterritorialization

Dear Paul,

The son of a friend of ours is the Chief of
Staff for Eric Abetz. So I knew about the Senator's
family history. His great uncle was Hitler's
Ambassador to Paris and a convicted war criminal.

His great uncle died when Senator Abetz was just a baby.
The Senator grew up knowing his family history.
A knowledge that helped shape his own world view.

"I would seek to judge people not on the basis of who
their distant relatives may be but on how they behave
themselves," he said.

If you're of German origin, you're an easy target.

My daughter-in-law is German. Her parents and brother
still live in Germany. She's from Braunsweig. My father
spoke German fluently.

I can't remember the exact quote - but there's something
about the sins of our forefathers should not be transferred
to their children.

cont'd ...

My apologies for the typo. I spelt Braunschweig
incorrectly.

I shall try to find the appropriate quote about the
sins of the forefathers.

Foxy
I simply want to know how to tell a Nazi swastika from a Hindu (et al) one?
Surely you know the difference, I mean visually; if the Swastika is banned in Australia how are ordinary Australians to tell the difference.
Someone may see a Swastika and report it to the authorities thus causing embarrassment to some pious Australian who follows a Hindu religion.

If there is a physical difference please tell us.

Is Mise,

I've already answered your question about what
the differences between the two swastikas are.
And your concerns are unwarranted. They shall be
taken in context by authorities. And they are not
banned in Australia - yet.

"To suggest that white men are somehow missing out
is daft. And has a heavy whiff of racism, sexism or prejudice."

To make a comment like that shows that your brain isn't working.

Lets go thru this one thing at a time.

Remember when the best man or woman FOR the job GOT the job?
- Nothing to do with race or prejudice -

Well lets scrap that idea ok, and we'll introduce diversity quotas.
For our example maybe we should call it something more realistic like say
'The No Jobs for Whitey' policy.

If there's anything to do with racism there, it's racism AGAINST WHITES, do you not understand this?
But we can't call it that can we? No... because that would just be too openly racist, so we call it 'Diversity Quotas'.

Now tell me why would the vast majority of Australians vote for things that aren't in their best interests?
If I campaigned on the policy that I wanted to hit everyone over the head with a rubber mallet would you vote for me?
Lets say I campaign at the next election with a 'No jobs for whitey' policy, you think I'm going to get voted in? doubtful.
Why would Australians vote themselves into becoming a minority to ALL foreigners? They didn't no, but our governement and the UN just keep bringing in more and more foreigners don't they?
Australians never voted for this, it was social engineering done to us, by those who've already decided which direction the country is going in.

They keep us going around in circles with issues that don't really matter, they're just meant to divide us.
Divide and conquer.
Everything that REALLY matters has already been decided.
UN agendas, bilateral agreements, climate treaties, carbon pricing, global taxes, one world health, wars all of it.
They just keep pushing and never stop.

How many Aussies voted in favor of going to war in Afghanistan?

Where's this democracy you're talking about?
You think it exists because we have freedom to argue over transgender toilets and religions?

Foxy,
You haven’t answered at all and I suspect that you realise that there is no visual differences but having painted yourself into a corner once again you are just waiting for the paint to dry, good job that you had your computer with you.

Saw this add on 9, where all their Aussie TV personality's are saying 'This is our shot'...

http://youtu.be/b-DU5XVYAY0

Why don't they try to subliminally brainwash me with bs by saying the same thing over and over again like a cracked record?

It's like they are so desperate they've resorted to hitting me over the head with a rubber mallet until I stop resisting.

Really this country and all its little paid muppets are gone past sad, past 'desperate for attention' past 'grovelling to stay relevant', and have entered the 'just plain pathetic' category.

I gotta ask myself, did the whole nation get labotomised during the 10yrs I chose to not watch normal TV?

Is Mise,

I tried to keep it simple because as you well know
the swastika is a symbol of many styles and meanings
and can be found in many cultures. In any case the
the following link might help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Enjoy.

Not all migrant minority communities enjoy the same
level of respect, equality, freedom, and opportunity as
the wider white Australian population"

I grew up in a caravan park from age 3 to age 8.
The aboriginal kids who played footy at the back of the park;
Well they all had government housing and large extended family.
So don't talk to me about disadvantage, and how things aren't the same for others.
They had things far better than I did, and they were racist too, so don't talk to me about your bullcrap white privilege.

I didn't ask foreigners to come.
I didn't roll out the welcome mat, and I never voted to expand immigration quotas.
So don't make out like its my fault, if they're dissapointed with that which they expected.

"It is nothing short of embarrassing
that in modern-day Australia almost all
senior roles in government or business
are held by white men."

I've been looking at that actually.
Simple easy question.
Why does Palachook prefer all women in her cabinet?

Maybe men just work better with men and prefer it that way, and women work better with women and prefer it that way.
And maybe this situation comes in part from the fact that many women aren't actually seemingly barren Julia Gillard's, Julie Bishop or whinging Christine Holgate professional types devoted to careers but actually WANT to fulfill their purpose to make babies and have a bloody family?
Which leaves men at the helm on a more permanent basis;
And maybe there's nothing more to it than that.

[Cont.]
"Australia's sense of national community has been founded on
a solidarity that shuns diversity so your views don't come
as a surprise. And today Australia's major institutions,
including as already mentioned, politics, higher
education, media, the arts, and the public service all
still fail to reflect the massive demographic shift in
recent years."

Are you saying that I'm supposed to change who I am, and be a fundamentally different person than I was growing up?
That is what Australia expects of me to accommodate the foreigners?

Just because you load the country with foreigners doesn't mean I'm required to change who I am.
Stick your social engineering,
- I didn't vote for that either.

"My daughter-in-law is German. Her parents and brother
still live in Germany. She's from Braunsweig. My father
spoke German fluently."

I bet she still feels guilty and a need to apologise for what the NAZI's did, mind you she probably wasn't alive then and is not responsible for anything that happened before she was born.

But we still keep reminding them right?

You people throw equality around like you think you know what it means, but you don't.

I see Paul has demonstrated he is a deceptive individual atempting to align these politicians as Nazi Extremists. "Pauline Hanson, Barnaby Joyce, Peter Dutton, George Christensen Cory Bernardi and Craig Kelly etc, some real ratbags in that mob!" It is he who is creating the terrorist bomb, as he does not know the attitudes of these people he seeks to degrade. It is time he was pulled into line.

Foxy,
That link is old hat and doesn’t tell the PHYSICAL, the VISUAL difference, it’s all very well to talk about the abstract differences, but how does one tell them apart by looks?
How does one describe the difference?
If it is banned in Australia do you really think that the authorities will give a toss about distinguishing which is which; the police will do the usual thing and make arrests or lay charges and then leave it up to the Court, never mind the expense the person has to go to to prove innocence.
Governments in Australia have a nasty habit of using the police as revenue raisers and instructing them to act illegally when it suits.
Ask Paul about police removing their identity numbers before illegally belting peaceful protesters with their batons.
Currently the NSW Govt. rakes in millions every year in fines for an activity that they say kills; they are fine with the deaths because stopping the activity would cause a drop in revenue and they could stop the illegal activity tomorrow but they won’t..

And you put your faith in such people.

Hi Foxy,

Eric Abetz is from the extreme right of the Liberal Party a place that once housed the likes of Pauline Hanson, fertile ground for the extreme. I am concerned of what influence Uncle Otto may have had on the impressionable little Eric through the family connection. Uncle Otto the high ranking Nazi war criminal, no doubt was much admired by the family at the very time he was having innocent people marched off to their deaths. Abetz tells us he was told about the exploits of Uncle Otto from an early age, what he doesn't say is if that recounting was one of a war criminal, or a hero of the Father Land, given Eric Abetz's politics I fell there may have been some influence from the latter.

Hi Issy,

Be fair on Foxy about your swastika nonsense, you know full well the vast majority of Westerners view the swastika as an evil Nazi symbol, and nothing else. Its my view that the swastika and other like symbols should not be banned. Banning is counterproductive, it gives these extremists a rallying point which can work against what was intended. As for your kindred sprits burning Christian crosses in the front yards of black people down in Alabama whilst wearing flour sacks and bedsheets, that's intimidation, and should not be tolerated. But I have no objection to your folk burning crosses whilst wearing flour sacks and bedsheets in the front yard of SSAA HQ, in fact I'll supply the matches.

Armchair Critic,

Each of us have our stories to tell. Each of
us have our own life experiences. However,
very few people resort to using hatred, fear,
and violence against others as these neo-Nazis
in Australia are attempting to do. Most people get
on and work hard and carve lives out for themselves
and their families as best they can.

My daughter-in-law was not even born during the time
of Hitler. Currently she's in her final year studying
nursing. We don't discuss politics. However Nazi
symbols are banned in Germany and most Germans today
consider Hitler as an evil.

You say that I don't know what equality means? You
have no idea of my life experiences to be able to make
any assumptions on that or any subject about me. I have
lived and worked on several continents including ten
years in the United States. I've seen the racial
discrimination that occurred against black people regularly
in that country. I have also experienced discrimination
in this country as well. As has my family. So I can
speak from experience. However my mindset has always
remained positive and I have very high hopes for the
future of this country which I regard as my home.

Anyway, I can see that we're poles apart in our thinking.
I see no point in upsetting you any further. Therefore it's
best we discontinue this conversation. I would prefer
not to have to respond to you.

Is Mise,

If you want more detail regarding the swastikas - try
going to libraries and asking for help once the lockdowns
end. I thought the link I cited gave enough examples
and differences.

As for your concern about what authorities in this country
will do? To satisfy yourself contact the Attorney General's
Department in Canberra expressing your concerns.

The Attorney General is the minister responsible for
legal affairs national and public security and acts as
a legal adviser to the Cabinet.

The Address is:

Attorney-General's Department
3-5 National Circuit
Barton ACT 2600

Tel: (02) 6141-6666.

Michaelia Cash is the newly appointed Attorney General

Dear Paul,

Thanks for your comments.

Regarding Eric Abetz? His gread-uncle died when
Abetz was just a baby. We have no way of knowing
what the family thought of the man, or what influence
the man might have had on Abetz and his politics.
However, I would hesitate to judge anybody on the actions
of their relatives.

Foxy,
So you can’t tell the difference; you’re not on your own, neither can anyone else.

Paul,
You’ve been on the road to Damascus again, good to see your conversion.

Is Mise,

The differences have already been explained.
There are various meanings in many cultures
as well as many variations
in design and many decorative additions.

Basically Hitler's is a "hooked cross" (black) and is
right facing with short legs. Hitler put it on a white
circle against a red background and used it as the
the Nazi flag. The ancient symbols are left-facing
with longer legs and are more decorative depending on the
culture.

If you want more information on the subject I told you where
to get it. And the following book is worth getting hold
of:

"The Buddhist Swastika and Hitler's Cross: Rescuing a
Symbol of Peace from the Forces of Hate," by T.K. Nakagaki

The book explains how and why these symbols get confused.

Foxy,
Suggest that you read some of your links, the way the arms of the swastika face signifies different things in different cultures and is not solely an indication of a Nazi connection, this is a trap into which many of the uninformed have fallen.
The background against which the Nazis placed it is not part of the swastika lt merely is an indication of one user’s position.
Neither you nor any one else can tell the difference between the Nazi swastika and that of many other users.

Is Mise,

I stated in my previous post that there are various meanings
in many cultures as well as many variations in design and of
course they don't have a Nazi connection. Hitler took it
for the Nazi Party which explains why these symbols get
confused as the author T.K. Nakagaki explains in his book
"The Buddhist Swastika and Hitler's Cross: Rescuing a Symbol
of Peace from the Forces of Hate."

Encyclopedia Britannica also explains:

http://britannica.com/topic/swastika

OK. Good Talk.

The cover shot on ‘60 Minutes” video of last weeks show shewed a prominent Celtic Cross, a Christian symbol being worn by a Nazi or a fellow traveller.

Let’s ban it.

Is Mise,

It is the short "sun cross" version of the Celtic Cross
surrounded by a circle that is more commonly used by
white supremacists. This shows that care must be taken
always to judge things in context.

As far as I know there simply are no laws restricting the
flaunting of odious symbols such as the Nazi emblems or
pictures of Hitler in this country so your suggestion of
banning I doubt will hold much weight. But you never
know what the future holds. You would have seen last
night - authorities are wanting to have these neo-Nazis
declared as a terrorist organisation - so you never know.

What we do observe of the far/alt right or neo-Nazis is fairly minor nor locally organic, but imported from the US.

In fact by focusing upon these groups we miss an important point, i.e. they share much with (or deflect from) society, media and politics where the many of the same opinions have been seeded, shaped and formed, especially the right, including literature and old tropes based round eugenics.

Post white Australia policy the trick has been to highlight and mainstream the same but using contemporary or proxy issues and new language for 'dog whistling'; endeavouring to peel off old Labor voters or simply create anxiety.

Accordingly this includes immigration, refugees, ('nebulous') NOM net overseas migration, population growth,'sustainable population' etc. blaming them for and especially environmental degradation to foil constraints on fossil fuels (big oil, auto oligarchs and the 'top people' have historically been very keen on eugenics and 'freedom & liberty' for themselves).

In fact what has become mainstreamed is the old anti-semitic eugenics trope that became Islamophobic, for more acceptance (especially as the former is socially unacceptable) i.e. 'great replacement theory'; before the Christchurch shooter one had heard of via two WASPs, one a British immigrant Green's voter and the other a middle class Lib voter.... (sure many in Labor feel the same).

Hi Foxy and Issy,

Issy, it was actually the road to Moonee Ponds and a stop off at the drive thru Macca's when I had my revelation! And Ronald's voice from above came forth from the loudspeaker, he spoke to me in tongues; "Any fries with that order"....I interoperated that to mean I was now the chosen one to sally forth with the message of good tidings to lowly sinners such as yourself, I quote to you a deep and meaningful passage from the 'Book of Ron'; "Two all beef patties on a sesame seed bun" Hark! take salvation from that revelation and make what you will of it, it shall bring you great joy and comfort in the afterlife!" Praise be the Ronald.

I hope I have been of help to you Issy with the above message of comfort. It makes about as much sense as your Swastika nonsense. Stop it you'll go blind!

Foxy,
You’re wrong about pictures of Hitler, his picture used to be used as a target at gun clubs but Australian Parliaments made shooting at him illegal, likewise the rest of the top Nazis.
The 38 Minutes program is simply a recruiting add for the white supremicists.

This is interesting... not that the ADL is a credible source... but it is for some.

http://www.adl.org/blog/the-boogaloo-extremists-new-slang-term-for-a-coming-civil-war

It's probably after your time Is Mise but would you consider yourself a Boogaloo-ist perhaps it's only used as a pejorative but sometimes people take the labels of their enemies.

Boogaloo-ists from my understanding are pro-gun and anti-authoritarian and anti-communist and but pro-multiculturalism probably also anti-capitalist or anti-globalist. Apparently they featured at the BLM protests but were chagrined by the dominance of the communists.

It might be interesting to compare the Boogaloo movement with the dynamics between the dominated anarchists and the dominant communists.

"pictures of Hitler, his picture used to be used as a target at gun clubs"

Come on Issy, the lads should have known better, all shooting should be done out on the range, not inside at pictures handing on the walls of the clubhouse! Next thing you'll be telling us they were taking pot shots at the pictures of past club presidents hanging in the Committee Room, Heinrich. Hermann, Joseph etc.

Paul,
Out on the target range, as you well know.
Why no comment on the use of Hitler as a target being banned?

Foxy,
Why give another link, why should I bother looking at it as you have proven that you don’t read the links that you trot out.

Good Morning Gentlemen,

Do you know what a WASP is? No, not the buzzy bee
type. In American society a WASP is someone whose
ancestors came from Northern Europe, especially
England, and who were/are considered to have a lot of
power and influence. It's a noun acronym for -
"White-Anglo-Saxon-Protestant," forming a group often
considered the most dominant and influential in
American society. Do they exist in Australia?
Of course.

Then:

Wikipedia tells us that - " Ultranationalism is "extreme
nationalism that promotes the interests of one state or
people, above all others" or simply "extreme devotion to
one's own nation." Sound familiar?
And -

" When combined with the notion of national rebirth
ultranationalism is a key foundation of fascism. Some
ultranationalist organisations have been designed as
terrorist movements by certain nation states."

"According to Janusz Bugajski - "in its most extreme or
developed forms ultra nationalism resembles marked
xenophobic disdain of other nations, support for
authoritarian political arrangement verging on
totalitarianism and a mythical emphasis on the
"organic unity" between a charismatic leader an
organizationally amorphous movement type party and the
nation."

" Roger Griffin asserts that ultranationalism
is essentially xenophobic and is known to
legitimise itself through
"deeply mythical narratives of past cultural
or political
periods of historical greatness or of old scores to
settle against alleged enemies."

"It can also draw on "vulgarized forms of physical
anthropology, genetics, and eugenics to rationalize ideas
of national superiority and destiny, of degeneracy and
subhumanness."

In Australia - Pauline Hanson's ONE NATION is an
ultranationalist political party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultranationalism

And we wonder where these extremist neo-Nazis come from?

Is Mise,

As long as you keep on harping on about the swastika
symbols and asking for the differences between them
I shall continue to give you links in the hope that
you will finally understand what's actually being
said - not what you think is being said.

It's your fault. You keep asking. I keep replying.

You keep it up - so shall I.

Foxy,
Why bother, you can’t tell the difference and you’ve already blown your continuous giving of references because you don’t read them yourself, otherwise you’d have known that the direction that a swastika is facing doesn’t mean anything.

You don’t have to keep replying as you’ve shewn yourself to lack knowledge, not surprising in one who watches ‘38 Minutes”.

Is Mise,

Your attempts at trying to put me down says more
about you then it does about me. You're displaying
an extremely insecure personality. I'm frankly
merely trying to be polite in replying to you and
it's an occupational habit for me to correct any
misinformation.

May your day be as pleasant as you are.

Foxy,
You mean that you didn’t post that the direction that a swastika faces is not significant?
Dear me, I must hav misread you.

Is Mise,

You are committed to misunderstanding me.

And -

"It is I, with respect,"

who can't be held responsible for what you understand.

Most British are WASP's because of Elizabeth I so it's little surprise that WASP's have the most to lose from multiculturalism in Western countries that were established by the British. If it wasn't for the British the US and Australia wouldn't exist British WASP's have a right to feel ownership. Anglo's have a right to the Anglo-Sphere. Of course those that wish to take what British WASP's have will need an approapriate deterritorialization to "justify the theft"- enter "racism" and "multiculturalism".

Foxy seems to believe that all the land on the Earth should be equally distributed among all the people independent of how much work each community does and how responsible they are. This would give irresponsible dumb ethnicities the advantage over smart ethnicities- personally I don't consider that any ethnicity is more intelligent- even though IQ tests may say differently- but policies such as this don't help. Thought has always been important for survival. Those that breed more shouldn't get more. Communists use cultural hegemony- "culture to destroy culture" and ethnicity- ostensibly to rebuild from the ashes- they aspire to be the biggest dictator/ bully- this is Lockean- of course this means they need to destroy the most powerful ideology that being the western world. It's interesting that when Alexander III came to power with liberal policies the Communists used this to engage in further violent actions to destabilize Russian society. Russia is still suffering from Communism today and will be for some time.

The fact is there are many levels to world society even if people such as Foxy refuse to acknowledge monolithic components such as family and ethnicity.

We should reject Foxy's aspirations of Communist Multiculturalism.

I don't care about Roger Griffin- or whatever the "latest fashionable expert" Foxy pulls out to justify her taking of my stuff. This sounds like classic Burnham Managerialism- adding further weight to Foxy's Communist Credentials.

Foxy should perhaps take her bag bed back to the bridge by her lonesome and think about her actions

CM,

As Steele Redux told you on another discussion - your
consistent references to communism when people present
other views that don'd agree with your narrow-blinkered
outmoded vworld view has more than worn thin and are really
beginning to get on our nerves. Give it a rest or we shall assume that you are deranged.

Foxy,
What are you doing?
You typed a line with eighteen words in it.

Is Mise,

And did you understand it?

I've just remembered an old joke:

A Briton, a Frenchman, and a Russian are standing
and staring at a portrait of Adam and Eve in a
museum.

"Look at their calm, their reserve," says the Briton.
"Surely they must be British."

"Nonsense! They are beautiful! Surely they must be French,"
says the Frenchman.

The Russian finally speaks.
"They have no clothes, no shelter, only an apple to eat,
and are being told this is paradise."
"They are Russian!

Foxy,
No, only counted.

Is Mise,

Why?

Foxy,
Because it caught my eye, you only usually use six to eight words per line.

Is Mise,

Thank You for noticing and caring.
That's kind of you.

Good Morning,

It loos like this discussion has now run its course.
It's been interesting. I look forward to our next
one and I trust it will be as robust as this one
has been.

Wishing you all good health.

Stay safe.

If channel 9 had a case against the two young men regarding the security guard they probably would have released the foyers security tapes to the public. I hope that channel nine and the police have at least released the tapes to the defense. It looks like they keep saying that the two young men attacked the security guard without producing the evidence- this sounds suspiciously like defamation. Hopefully we can trust Victoria's court system to produce a fair verdict- looks less likely all the time.