The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > Happy Centenary Herr Chancellor

Happy Centenary Herr Chancellor

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 10
  7. 11
  8. 12
  9. Page 13
  10. 14
  11. 15
  12. 16
  13. ...
  14. 19
  15. 20
  16. 21
  17. All
Here is the crux of SR's a-historic claims:

1. He said there were 600000 Jews in and around Berlin which the Nazis used to garner support.

In fact, using the very data that SR relies on, by 1927 when the Nazis started to work in Berlin, there were 90000 Russian refugees in the whole of German. Some of them were Jews and some were in Berlin.

2. So, according to SR, these few tensofthousands of Jews in Berlin in 1927 were fertile soil for the Nazis to garner support from the antisemitic Berliners.

In fact, in the next election in 1928 the Nazis, then known for their antisemitism because of Hitler's 'My Struggle', received 1.4% of the Berlin vote. Fertile soil indeed? BTW in that election, this fertile soil was so useful for the Nazis </sarc> that they got 2.6% of the national vote. A decline from the previous election. By comparison the Communists got over 10%.

Tell us all about the fertile soil again SR. Or as usual, ignore unhelpful data.

3. So according to SR, the Nazis used this fictitious Berlin 'fertile soil' to gain support through to 1933.

By 1930 the Nazis got 18% of the vote. Fertile soil? Well there was a little thing called the Great Depression going on which might have had something to do with it. But as usual SR will ignore unhelpful data. Oh and the Nazi still only got 11% of the Berlin vote. Heh, but let's ignore that, eh SR. Even in the last 'free' election in 1932, overall the Nazis got 37% of the vote but less than 30% in Berlin.

So this fertile soil in Berlin seems rather dysfunctional to anyone other than SR.

4. SR also decides to ignore the evidence that the Nazis realised that their antisemitism was unpopular in large parts of German and that, in all elections after 1928, they downplayed their Jewish policies. A strange thing to do when they had such fertile soil.

Oh I know...let's ignore that unhelpful data. That's what SR always does.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 8 August 2021 6:20:03 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
mhaze,

Read any of Ian Kershaw's books?

Or even heard of Ian Kershaw?
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 8 August 2021 6:40:27 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear mhaze,

You claim: “I never said the Jews coming in were fictitious.”

Oh come on.

This is your direct quote: “The Jews had been in Germany for centuries, millennia even. Where were these fictitious floods of refugees coming from? It's just rubbish.”

Even now you seem incapable of accepting they were even refugees much less came in numbers, nor did you know where they were coming from, something even the most beginner student of that period of history should have known.

Then this from you: “The issue of this supposed flood revolves around the mid 1920s when you say this flood occurred. But to try to hide your errors on this, you talk about the 1880s, 1900 and 1933. Nothing about the 1920s. Why? Because your claims are ignorant rubbish.”

What? I explicitly talk about the 1920s. The 600,000 figure I gave was from there. What drugs are you on?

As to ignorance that is all you my friend.

In fact your knowledge on this topic really is breath-takingly shallow isn't it.

The main nationalist party in the 1924 elections was the hard right and anti-Semetic German National People's Party. They held particular sway in the north and garnered the second largest block of votes in the 1924 Federal Election.

“Before the rise of the Nazi Party, it was the major conservative and nationalist party in Weimar Germany. It was an alliance of nationalists, reactionary monarchists, völkisch and antisemitic elements supported by the Pan-German League.”

“Several prominent Nazis began their careers in the DNVP. After 1929, the DNVP co-operated with the Nazis, joining forces in the Harzburg Front of 1931, forming coalition governments in some states and finally supporting Hitler's appointment as Chancellor (Reichskanzler) in January 1933. Initially, the DNVP had a number of ministers in Hitler's government, but the party quickly lost influence and eventually dissolved itself in June 1933, giving way to the Nazis' single-party dictatorship, the majority of its former members joining the Nazi party.”

Wikipedia
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 9 August 2021 9:32:51 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
In 1924 the then temporarily rebadged NAZI party garnered 6% of the vote so Germany had over a quarter of its voters casting their ballot for hard right, nationalist, avowedly anti-Semitic parties.

So the flood of refugees, primarily Jewish, had no impact? What a crock.

Look mate, you are obviously struggling with this period of history. I'm not sure whether the books you have been reading haven't included these obvious strands or it has been your ideology which has allowed you to skip over them.

Finally takes a lot of imagination to see this just as Jews coming in but not in great numbers. They were, 600,000 at one point.

They were in proportionally far greater numbers than the Middle Eastern refugees who entered Germany this century and if this forum had been around at that time you may well have been posting threads like this but with Jews as the target:

“Susanna Feldman was a 14 yr old Jewish girl living in Wiesbaden, Germany when she was accosted, raped and strangled to death by Ali Bashar, a young Iraqi refugee who was already suspected of another rape and violent robbery. Bashir and his family fled Germany back to Iraq (the place they sought refuge from!!).”
Posted by SteeleRedux, Monday, 9 August 2021 9:33:22 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yes Foxy, I know of Kershaw. I have several of his books.

Which one, from your extensive reading, would you recommend as supporting your erroneous claims?

My main recollection about Kershaw is that he criticised AJP Taylor for not having sufficient, or any, ideological bias as regards his book on the origins of WW2. Taylor is one of my favourite historians about the period in question and his book about the origins of the war really did change the way I viewed the period and historic inquiry in general.

Criticising an historian for not being biased enough really should colour the way one views Kershaw's output.
Posted by mhaze, Monday, 9 August 2021 9:34:54 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
SR, Yes I wrote " these fictitious floods of refugees". The flood was fictitious, not the refugees.

Of course all of this is a side issue. These refugees had no electoral effect in Germany. You haven't offered up even one passing piece of evidence that the Nazis used the 'flood' for electoral purposes. Because they didn't because it wasn't an issue of note. Its all in your mind and you think its important because, in your ignorance of the period, its the only thing you know.

I listed a bunch of things you ignore to maintain you false narrative. Can't help but notice that you continue to ignore them.
Posted by mhaze, Monday, 9 August 2021 9:44:53 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 10
  7. 11
  8. 12
  9. Page 13
  10. 14
  11. 15
  12. 16
  13. ...
  14. 19
  15. 20
  16. 21
  17. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy