The Forum > General Discussion > Neo - Feudalism
Neo - Feudalism
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Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 9 February 2021 4:03:08 PM
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Dear Ttbn,
In the old dispute between socialism and communism, communism believed that things must first get worse before they can get better. Indeed, wherever communism came to power they managed to build a terrible hell - and it never got better! UBI can lessen the pain, it allows people to refuse working for employers whose business-model goes against their moral grain, including by refusing to work in the production of increasingly monstrous technology. It also allows people to refuse stupid credentials that are of no real value. It allows unemployed people to think because hungry people cannot think properly. Democratic means can work - political party(s) can be peacefully formed to reject technology, globalism and tyrannical environmental demands, take the air out of the intellectual oligarchy and possibly even tax global corporations out of existence. But you oppose it because you only believe in a revolution, you think that only hungry people may be desperate enough to use violence to overthrow the progressive systems. What you are likely to get with this approach is starving people, too weak to help themselves AND a flourishing technological elite that governs them by the whip and a dangling carrot. You failed to address the root cause: Technology is the inevitable curse, the necessary punishment for overpopulation. It is simply not otherwise possible to feed, clothe and shelter that many people on our planet. Technology and regimentation go hand in hand and mankind will never be rid of them without first being willing to control their genitals and procreative urges. The young generations want technology because they are still ruled by their genes and their demands for progeny. The conservative family model actually helps to lock this idea in their minds about the necessity of offspring, which they feel the owe their ancestors. The re-definition of gender roles may therefore actually be a step in the right direction, though I think, far too little and far too late. A drastic reduction in human population is also the only possible way to help the environment recover - all other attempts are just a joke. Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 9 February 2021 11:54:56 PM
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ttbn and Yuyutsu,
It's obvious the neither of you have had any training in social theory. Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 5:35:19 AM
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theory
Mr Opinion, That's exactly where just about all of our societal problems start, Academic theory ! Posted by individual, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 7:46:19 AM
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individual,
I reckon you are a big comics reader. Who's your favourite Batman ot the incredible Hulk? Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 8:37:47 AM
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Very interesting topic.
Posted by Chris Lewis, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 9:09:29 AM
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Yuyutsu,
“UBI can lessen the pain”. The overlords know this. They won’t hand it out because they are kind. Once they have you reliant on them, they own you. Government pensions already have their recipients dancing to the government tune - you can do this, you can’t do that. “You failed to address the root cause”. No. I did not. I am merely presenting a mini review of a book, which most people will not have read - nor will they read it, sadly. There is nothing of me in this post. I do agree with the author’s predictions, though. Serfs have revolted in the past - often winning, too. They can do it again; although the grit seems to have departed from most of us, and the latest generations are useless. You “drastic reduction in human population" is coming. Read the book. Thanks for your civilised and thoughtful response. Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 9:50:28 AM
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I've noticed a few articles, podcasts etc along these lines coming out recently. I think the reason and the timing is the overthrow of Trump and the apparent defeat of Trumpism.
While Trump was in power the barn-door remained closed, or at least ajar. While the globalists of big tech, big media, Wall St and big academia feasted on the bones of an impoverished working and middle class during the Obama years, they were content and viewed the future as secure. A further 8 years of Hilary would see the installation of the new oligarch completed. But Trump's victory in 2016 disrupted all that. Worse et, from their point of view, Trump was doing what politicians aren't supposed to do - he was following through on his promises to the 'deplorables' et al. To be sure, the globalists continued to push their agenda, but Trump pushed back and was winning. Decoupling from the CCP was proceeding, threatening the wealth and power of those who'd based their fortune on continued transfers of wealth from the US to the CCP. But Trump was threatening all that. The most famous Trump poster had him saying.. "In reality they're not after me, they're after you. I'm just in the way". Well he's not in the way any long. A conspiracy was organised by the globalists to oust him and it was successful.... The western world, or at least the Anglosphere, is in for almighty change. Democracy will survive - in name only. The globalist oligarchy has won and will only be defeated at great cost. The two most imprtant articles post-Trump on this should be read by all concerned. They won't be, but they should be. Not that it'll make any difference, but at least you'll understand what's going on around you.... http://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/ http://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-thirty-tyrants If you read nothing else this year, read the last one. Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 12:20:19 PM
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Serfdom is certainly more likely when there is no one like Trump around; that's why Big Tech (the new feudal wannabe overlords) got rid of him.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 6:18:31 PM
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But where are the Vikings?
How can we have feudalism without Vikings? After all, medieval Western European feudalism was a sociopolitical response to Viking invasions. So, where are the Vikings! Maybe they're all down the pub drinking with the Bogan Australians (aka Australian Australians). Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 6:29:13 PM
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Hi Hanrahan,
Do you really think that Trumpf wouldn't have engineered a system of serfdom - as you seem to define it - where everybody was either a 'serf' or a police marshall ? Fat chance, actually. Anyway, it's all completely unlikely, no matter who might like to promote such a system. Seriously, nobody would tolerate any moves towards it. We're not moving towards a Venezuelan model, or anything like some sort of fatuous One World Government. Not going to happen - in a word: Africa ? Try to move back to some sort of reality, Hanrahan. Joe Posted by loudmouth2, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 7:07:11 PM
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Yeah. Completely unlikely - in the minds of fatheads who never read anything for fear of finding out the truth, something scary. Stay ignorant with your head in the sand and your arse in the air to be bitten when it's too late to do anything about it. No skin off my nose.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 10 February 2021 10:31:53 PM
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How can we have feudalism without Vikings?
Mr Opinion, Who needs Vikings when you've got Academics & Bureaudroids ! Posted by individual, Thursday, 11 February 2021 9:30:29 AM
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Kotkin has written many very perceptive papers. Thanks, Hanrahan.
Some Idiot mentioned the Vikings: yes, indeed, one can see parallels with the rioters and thugs who sought to lynch Mike Pence for disobeying Trumpf: http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000007598548/capitol-riot-new-video-impeachment.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20210210&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta®i_id=127104467&segment_id=51399&user_id=35fd54d942ac9b9e288ef933afd6d6f5 Yes, the US came close to dropping back into archaic feudalism, I don't know about neo-feudalism. Thanks to Biden, that's all far less likely now. Joe Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 11 February 2021 10:02:25 AM
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Other things that Knows-Everything Loudmouth will think are "completely unlikely" is that: "The new overlords with their censoring of views are reminiscent of the Middle Ages Catholic Church with more advanced technology".
How about 'credentialed experts will replace democracy'? That's already happening. Or, "Everyone else (other than the technocrats) will come to subsist on some combination of 'gig work' (part time work) and government aid". Again, already happening amongst young people, who have been kept ignorant of the past. Posted by ttbn, Thursday, 11 February 2021 10:16:27 AM
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individual,
Who needs Vikings when you've got Foul-Mouth? Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 11 February 2021 10:36:07 AM
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Everyone knows feudalism is bad.
Everyone knows the Orange Man is bad. Or at least everyone who isn't one of the ungood and who does engage in doublethink. Therefore they are both bad. Therefore the Orange Man wanted to institute feudalism....or something. No need for actual evidence or even a passing attempt at suggesting evidence. This is what passes for logical thought among the TDS crowd. Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 11 February 2021 10:41:43 AM
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Therefore the Orange Man wanted to institute feudalism....or something.
mhaze, I don't know what he wanted nor would anyone else but from what I saw, he did things that went against feudalism, not for it ! That's why I imagine he sacked so many of them but then their remaining mates ganged up on him because they knew what was in store for them ! Sacking incompetent & corrupt people is not a vote winner ! Posted by individual, Thursday, 11 February 2021 11:40:45 AM
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Mhaze, Individual,
The point is that he is anti-democratic and obviously sees himself as, if he wishes, ruler for life. Those are important steps towards archaic feudalism. Nothing much neo- about it. Xi Jinping is on a similar path. So is Putin. And Erdogan. Obviously Kim Jong Un. Yes, feudal rule is becoming a growth industry. Joe Posted by loudmouth2, Thursday, 11 February 2021 1:09:07 PM
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So is Putin. And Erdogan. Obviously Kim Jong Un.
loudmouth2, Well, we had Whitlam, Keating, Rudd & Gillard ! So, what exactly are you trying to convey ? Which nations are the ones gaining ? Posted by individual, Thursday, 11 February 2021 3:47:47 PM
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LM demonstrates that he understands what feudalism is/was in the same way he understands what the true meaning of the Reichstag fire is. ie not at all.
Feudalism has nothing to do with dictatorship or whatever other forms of totalitarianism that addles LM's mind. Its a system of serfs working/slaving for a class of overlords for the sole benefit of said overlords. There've been plenty of examples in history of feudal systems which don't have a dictator or rule by a single man. eg Sparta. The forecasts of a coming feudal system in the US has nothing to do with the power of one man. Its not really even about government. Its about a small coterie of 'elite' controlling the system for their sole benefit and pushing the working class as well as the middle classes into servitude and poverty. Its clear that Trump was working against that 'elite' which is why they conspired to rig the election to remove him. I really feel that if people like LM read things like the Time Magazine article on the rigging of the election....http://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/ ... with an open mind it would be revelatory for them. And for that reason they won't. Posted by mhaze, Friday, 12 February 2021 8:00:09 AM
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Individual,
None of those Labor leaders were remotely feudal - Whitlam was sort of courtly, but none of them tried to retain power by inciting violent mobs, or - more stereotypically feudal - got people to charge each other on horse-back. Or more technically correct feudal: none of those Labor Leaders misused their control of land and resources to maintain the allegiance of citizens. Check out what feudal means, maybe on Wikipedia. You currently have no idea whatsoever. Joe Posted by loudmouth2, Friday, 12 February 2021 9:59:12 AM
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"LM” doesn’t read anything. The lack of reading, or the very poor reading skills of some posters, is particularly evident among those who generally attack other posters but put little or no effort into submitting anything of their own. Many of their criticisms show that they haven’t read, or haven’t understood, what the poster they they disagreeing with has actually written.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 12 February 2021 10:06:50 AM
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loudmouth2,
Whitlam et al may not have incited violence as such but they certainly incited dumbing-down of the masses just to get their votes. Posted by individual, Friday, 12 February 2021 4:42:01 PM
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Individual,
And got their votes ? So what's so unusual about that ? Did he actually break the law in any way ? Did he actually subvert the State ? Did he actually incite thugs to overthrow the democratic system ? No. Your bum-boy most certainly did. And a cop died. TTBN, There are some wonderful writers on feudalism , usually French: March Bloch, his colleagues Lefevre, le Roy de Ladurie, their teacher Henri Pirenne, and their student Fernand Braudel. Simply wonderful people, certainly Bloch who fought as a partisan - at sixty - before being captured by the Nazis - your ideological mates - tortured and shot. Joe Posted by loudmouth2, Friday, 12 February 2021 6:15:44 PM
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Books on feudalism and who wrote them are totally irrelevant to to this topic. The book that suggests that we could be heading back to a modern version of that system is the one that counts.
But, we cannot expect anyone who has problems understanding picture books and who calls other posters ‘Nazis’ to comprehend that. Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 13 February 2021 7:41:05 AM
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loudmouth2,
Most of the things YOU et al whinge about today stem from Whitlam's legacy ! Posted by individual, Saturday, 13 February 2021 8:12:46 AM
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Thanks for the links mhaze and everyones comments.
Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 13 February 2021 3:59:56 PM
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I suppose we all have our mind-pictures about fellow contributors to OLO - I imagine Misopinionated and Individual sitting on their village wall - one at each end - hurling insults etc. to passers-by, ranting, drooling and occasionally falling off.
Others occasionally come out of their men-caves to rail at the world for not following their 'brilliant' advice, then slink back in. Others beaver away at the finest detail of their pet subjects, which they occasionally try to explain to us dumb-dumbs. Then there are others who just seem to have a good time, and plenty of laughing, at some of the bad-tempered, infantile comments of the cave-dwellers. Then there are others, such as myself, who sit like wise judges, weighing up each position, where possible. But no, I still don't understand - or frankly care, it's so irrelevant in the modern, fast-changing world - about what neo-feudalism is. Posted by loudmouth2, Saturday, 13 February 2021 4:17:42 PM
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such as myself, who sit like wise judges, weighing up each position, where possible.
loudmouth2, You'll find that's commonly referred to as having yourself on ! Posted by individual, Sunday, 14 February 2021 7:30:20 AM
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Foul-Mouth,
If you consider yourself to be a "wise judge" then please that into consideration that I think judges are low-life dishonest and untrustworthy scumbags and I wouldn't do them the honour of pissing on them if they were on fire. And that goes for lawyers generally. Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 14 February 2021 7:58:15 AM
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So whoever said that half-wits had a sense of humour ?
Proven. Joe Posted by loudmouth2, Sunday, 14 February 2021 9:21:09 AM
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Foul-Mouth,
I just couldn't resist taking the opportunity to let people know how I feel about the lawyers. PS Especially if they happen to also be Chinese. Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 14 February 2021 10:45:03 AM
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And what some of them lack in humour, they amply make up in spite, envy and viciousness.
Joe Posted by loudmouth2, Sunday, 14 February 2021 11:45:27 AM
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Foul-Mouth,
Why would I be envious of a lawyer? Q: What's the difference between a lawyer and a leech? A: One's a blood sucking parasite, the other's a leech. Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 14 February 2021 12:28:34 PM
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Perhaps there are simil;ities between forms of feudalism and some current political trends, IF the Mafia and similar organisations can be associated with new forms of feudalism.
It's just that the way Trumpf acts, it is easy to see him as capo da capo of a vast Mafia-type enterprise: they don't have to be Italian, after all. So yes, feudalism, neo-feudalism if you like, is still flourishing in Trumpf's base-support. If only Mario Puzo were still alive, ...... Joe Posted by loudmouth2, Sunday, 14 February 2021 12:35:23 PM
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Foul-Mouth,
Trump non e capo di Mafia ma lei e Il Duce di fascismo USA. Non e vero Signor Foul-Mouth? Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 14 February 2021 4:02:27 PM
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Idioto de paesino,
Sociologically, there is nothing specifically 'Italian' about the way systems of domination and exploitation like the Mafia operate. In fact, in the early days in the US, what became known as the Mafia under people like Capone, were earlier on, run by Irish gangsters. Wth their more brutal experience in Sicily (The Honoured Society'), those Mafia gangs displaced the Irish and Jewish gangs, and spread out to all major cities in the US. Nowadays, of course, they would include African-Americans and Hispanics and Asians as they send their tentacles into all parts of the country. It's not an uncommon model: Trumpf would have been familiar with it growing up, with his father's links to the Mafia, and in his real-estate dealings, he would of course have worked in close with all of the various Mafia groups in the country, and internationally - nowadays with the Russian and Colombian Mafias. So it would be child's play to extend his form of control to dumb hicks, red-necks, crackers, and deplorables. Joe Posted by loudmouth2, Sunday, 14 February 2021 5:33:43 PM
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Foul-Mouth,
Your Italian leaves a lot to be desired. Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 14 February 2021 6:43:07 PM
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I'm pleasantly surprised that ttbn has posted something worthy of consideration and further discussion.
Overall, I tend to agree with the general premises of his post. Where I disagree with the numerous Trump supporters (ttbn included) is their praise of how he 'drained the swamp'. Yes, indeed, and then filled it to overflowing with his cronies and 'Yes' men who supported the most neurotic and narcissistic president in the history of everything (possibly). If you thought that Trump was not aiming to be your 'overlord' I believe you were seriously deluded or are incapable of critical thinking. Posted by Aries54, Monday, 15 February 2021 10:14:46 AM
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Globalisation has aided the upper classes but not the rest. The ‘learned’ people, or clerisy, and the oligarchy have a common world view, believing in globalism, cosmopolitanism, the value of credentials, and the authority of experts.
Technology, once seen as good for democracy, has become a tool for surveillance and consolidation of power. Our new “overlords” are the technocratic elites, a “priesthood of power” based on scientific expertise.
Self-determination, family and community are out, replaced by ‘progressive’ ideas about globalism, environmental sustainability, re-defined gender roles, and the authority of experts.
Where liberal capitalism built affordable housing for the upwardly mobile, Neo-feudalism is creating a world where fewer and fewer people can afford to own their homes. The ‘enlightened’ environmental policies are imposing “extraordinarily high energy costs on the less well off”.
The clerisy/oligarch class will expand the scope of welfare and state with subsidies and direct payments for the masses in the hope of staving off a rebellion. A Universal Basic Income (UBI) is one of the ideas touted to keep the ‘serfs’ quiet.
A high-tech Middle Ages or feudal system will emerge as economic power is dominated by fewer companies in the technical and finance areas, resulting in very little progress for most people. In 2005 to 2014, the percentage of people with flat or decreasing real incomes rose to over 60% in twenty five advanced economies. (‘Financial Times’, 19/7/17).
Tech leaders controlling a few powerful companies resemble a feudal ruling class. Like aristocrats of old, they are resistant to any dispersion of their power.