Foul-Mouth,

The impact of the pandemic is really affecting your mates from China because getting into a masters program at an Australian uni has become a necessary first step to getting a permanent residency visa.

No degree, no visa.

The uni degree is China's back door into Australia.

Loudmouth said-

So ...... some of you troglodytes would call for the disbandment of the education system, with education only for the select few who can deal with it, and lifelong manual labour (or welfare) for the rest ? Or maybe very basic education for them, say just the first four years ? And certainly that higher education should be privately funded ? No more government funding for universities, only private fees and endowments ? I think similar ideas would have been bandied about in the lead-up to the universal education Acts around the 1870s. And why on earth do you think you would have been entitled to more than your four years ? Or am I on the wrong track ?

Does the form follow the function?

Answer- Simply- You are on the wrong track!

Education is fairly accessible for everyone who is willing to read on the internet. Getting a degree is another thing- a degree enables one to get a better job- and is a way of demonstrating competence.

In order to determine whether the education system fulfills their function in society one needs to drill down and understand the components and processes.

Does the form follow the function?

Universities and tertiary bodies as institutions have a "function" to act as a centre of learning that the nation can draw upon to solve challenges that the nation faces for the benefit of all. This requires the system to have a form that suits the function.

There should be a balance between private and public funding based on the resources of the community as well as other constraints.

Loudmouths comments seem to be based on the idea of social inclusion and progression- the ideal of the equal society. Sadly according to Jordon Peterson and others- values lead to hierarchy lead to inequality- so inequality is perhaps inevitable. Loudmouth's vision is unattainable.

There is perhaps the possibility of creating a softer form of Loudmouth's vision-

Some talk of the ladder of success and the missing rungs.

Many successful people come from successful families but not all.

Success starts at home- Jordan Peterson says clean up your room and change the world- look after your family and it will look after you.

Personally I am more concerned about everyone having their own home than everyone having their own degree- but we are doing worse on this every year- now young people look to be living in rented accommodation for their entire lives. Rent is probably the biggest ongoing cost for most people. I believe we can do more for equality by addressing this problem- at least our people will have somewhere to keep their books

CM,

Yes, social equality may be unattainable, but education has been one major pathway for many working-class people to get a better grip on economic opportunities. A good start to understand what I was touching on is the analysis of 'social capital', particularly Bourdieu's concept of it:

http://d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net/32972649/Siisiainen-_Bourdieu_vs_Putnam.pdf?1392158497=&response-content-disposition=inline%3B+filename%3DTwo_Concepts_of_Social_Capital_Bourdieu.pdf&Expires=1610242367&Signature=U4gjxypIfPeU22r0Ft5zE1Ljg7p7mwY7JzBAOMw8Fy13AtgUKA7FIzX5NXvR4PVBkIE2t-FlpLtuzZSk9Y3NABqnflQs4pqQpW5KHVrAXKqBsl7aSqoYoCes6gyYqp3u6YXezAKLa7p1iRsb3WbeHDPgWn9e7PmkFwP1fjutusoNqnXPZ-TYNEFxpVIut1JebgGMMI0dLRU0Z9a7ZNiqAg2HU7PkIciwOmM7TFenV9TUq0-CqnCzuGUVaJv0-V82um5maHhRFUkYKboXhXF0ie8qDvfKoWDT09~qrjnMjNDuEYaQLw26j6BagYM9HP7D2bmCoiIhaEnD5yfBIQbEog__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJLOHF5GGSLRBV4ZA

For some groups, access to opportunity can be almost impossible, generation after generation (I'm thinking of some of the descendants of convicts 150-200 years ago), without some sort of inspiring teacher, or other form of leg-up. Imposing barriers, such as the imposition of fees, is a huge barrier to such groups.

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

You must know!

Is it 25% of students at the top eight unis are from China here to do a degree that will get them a permanent residency visa after successful completion of the course?

Are you on a CCP bonus system for everyone you get through the University Migration Processing System?

Thanks to Loudmouth for the Bourdieu reference -

http://www.britannica.com/biography/Pierre-Bourdieu

"Beginning in the 1980s, Bourdieu inserted himself into the public realm, supporting the rights of the unemployed, the homeless, and immigrants without papers. He spoke out against globalization and neoliberalism and often commented on political situations. "

I would perhaps agree with Bourdieu's views on globalization and neoliberalism but not on immigrants- I need more research.

Loudmouth said- "For some groups, access to opportunity can be almost impossible, generation after generation (I'm thinking of some of the descendants of convicts 150-200 years ago), without some sort of inspiring teacher, or other form of leg-up. Imposing barriers, such as the imposition of fees, is a huge barrier to such groups. "

Answer- If universities gave the degree to anyone able to pass the exams the costs to obtain degrees could be lower. Perhaps with paid seminars. But that paradigm would undermine the university business model. But it is happening now. EDX offers online courses with certification.

The next twenty years will be interesting times for so called educational institutions.

Perhaps the end result will be smaller campuses- newer buildings disappearing to be replaced by grass- less students on campus- I would want the older buildings to be preserved.

Perhaps more "friends of universities" rather than "employees of universities". People coming to formal and informal seminars and giving them- that use the libraries. Volunteering as a service and as a self development opportunity. Universities will be a part of the community- as were always meant to be.

Perhaps they will create a better business model around research- I believe that often universities give up intellectual property to industry too easily- but I have seen some industry groups investing generously into research- bit of a mixed bag. R&D funding doesn't seem to be done well in Australia. I would like to see better tax incentives and much less red tape as a start.

Educating foreigners is going to make Australia less competitive internationally assuming we are offering high value education- giving away our business value.

We should rent out rooms not sell the farm