In his attack on Kevin Rudd's private R & R, which is, BTW, laughably ordinary to say the least, the spotlight goes back to the messenger: Alexander Downer.

A number of Liberals will end up with egg on their face over this outburst.

Think of it, the squealer on Rudd: of all people, Alexander Downer! The man that in surveys, 51% of people think he is gay and only 31% think that he only looks gay because he wears fishnet stockings and a red handbag.

http://www.opinion.com.au/3737_Is_Alexander_Downer_'gay'_%3F.htm

He apparently wore fishnet stockings to a school function in front of children in 1986. He later that year he did the same in a drunken conference party, dancing in his fishnets on again with Colin Powell who was wearing red high heals and make up.

The Australian newspaper's resident cartoonist, Bill Leak loved to draw Downer in comics.

BILL LEAK: I drew him as this comical little Billy Bunter-type figure from a posh English school. And, naturally, that meant that he had short pants. And so when he came along with the fishnet stockings, he did the fishnet stockings mistake, I thought, "Gee, I’m glad I already had him in short pants 'cause I can put the stockings on." And with Alexander Downer, I always think it's as though he's saying, "Oh, look, mummy, I'm the Foreign Minister." (Laughs).

KERRY O'BRIEN: (Laughs)

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2005/s1433914.htm

The Liberals are backing down from this direction for very good reasons, and some know why.

FLETCH...ur missing the true picture here..... let me outline it step by step..

1/ Labor/lefist Journalists decide to play GUTTER POLITICS and abandon all ethical standards of fair play, and dive down among the creatures of the deep..the bottom feeding crawling things.. and suddenly come up with "Costello will destroy Howard" 2 yrs after the OFF the record convo...

2/ SHOCK HORROR.. Downers Dirt machine swings into action and Rudd is 'fingered' as a drunken sleasebag.

3/ The Journalists without doubt will bleat "Who...us? gutter politics? nooooway.. we were just exercising our sense of political responsibility and morality... *Innocent look*....

HAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

In simple terms.. we reap...what we sow.

Now we have 2 simple choices, (because of their gutter politics)

1/ Howard.. mr clean.
2/ Rudd.. mr sleaze.

But to be honest.. it doesn't particularly amaze me that Rudd did that.. I've been in the situation where being sent to Manila on business from the company I worked with then, and our official contacts said first up "Do you want some beers?" and we were not really feeling like it after the long flight.. so they said "Do you want some girls"? and we were also both married and declined.. but they insisted we come out with them to discuss the trade display etc which we were to assist them with... and they took us to a sleazy bar with gyrating half naked chicks and girls squirming around on top of blokes... the whole nine yards...

I don't drink personally, so there was no change of a 'Rudd' thing,
aaah.. life is certainly interesting....

But puh-lease..don't even try to give the 'Downer is bad/Rudd is good' angle on all this.. its just a mess which will spiral out of control if we feed it, and in the end..we will all be diminished.

Boazy, I think the point is that 95% of the population dont really care if Rudd did that. Particularly as he's been upfront about it.
I actually believe the comment that he acted like a frightened mouse and scarpered as soon as he realised where he was. I think Rudd has been quietly ambitious for sometime, and isnt the sort to deliberately hurt his chances at election.

Where it WILL hurt him, is if he now tries to come the moral police on anyone in the Liberal Party. So he'll probably have to do a lot of lip-biting as the election gets closer and more dirt on more pollies comes out. He will miss out on a lot of opportunities to put the boot into various liberal candidates.

Hmm... I half agree with you Country Gal. I think you're right in that Rudd's ambitious and probably scarpered, but I think he'd have been too clever to put the boot into liberals over moral issues.

See, one of Rudd's image problems has been that he is too clean cut - too over-the-top christian conservative. Yes, this has been an image problem, not a benefit.
Take a look at our prime ministers - plenty weren't clean cut. Look at Hawke and Fraser. Hell, Hawke held a record for sculling beer.

Rudd wouldn't have put the boot in to the liberals over moral issues - perhaps other labor MPs might have, but I suspect they would have played the 'lets not get too worked up' card, in a similar manner to a number of coalition MPs over this incident.

Alexander Downer is gay but more importantly he is stupid.
I give up complaining about the way this country is being run because the same old embarrassments keep getting back in even though I don't know anyone who votes for them.

Alexander Downers' sexuality has no bearing on his ability to do his job.

There now that I have said, I still think he's probably one of the worst Foreign Ministers this country has had.

I'd be seriously surprised if any politician was responsible for putting this about. They all have their secrets and not-so-secrets. It doesn't serve their interests to have a gossip free for all.

It also looks as though TRTL is right. The whole thing has done Rudd the enormous favour of de-prissifying his image. He has gonads after all.

Still, the common belief that Downer started it all is bad for the coalition. Whenever they've tried the smear (Bourke, Therese's business) it's turned people off them, not Rudd.

Like most people. I could not care less what polys do in their free time as long as the cost of their 'entertainment' comes from their own pocket. Hate to think that we paid for Rudds night on the town.
To put oneself in an embarrasing position is stupid. What if the club has internal survellance cameras? Pictures could be used at a later date.

Banjo,
Those surveillance pictures of Rudd with his tongue hangig out sideways whilst ogling the merchandise would have a tendancy to turn one off one's tucker.Yucky!

As Alexander Downer is happily married to Nicky and they have children I wonder about the 'gay' tag....Labor voters sounding hopeful perhaps?
As for Downer being responsible for leaking the story that is clearly nonsense. He mentioned in parliament some three or months back in response to some needling from the Opposition. The fact that it was recently taken up in the press is much more likely to have something to do with the fact that Rudd was advised that it was likely to come out into the public arena so he pre-empted it by having the party leak the story in a way which allowed it to be controlled by them as to timing and content. It was smart politics and they were able to cast just enough doubt on Downer to be credible.
This is just a hint of what is to come from Labor - and it is very, very nasty.

I can just imagine Alexander downer who is captured so well in Catherine Tate's character: Derek. "How very dare you!":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfdsNNJ7vls

When actual fact we know that with his "fishnets" and wild parties with, "adult themes", together with his nasty, catty, drag speak, he is actually the drag queen in the following YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctQTC_J0siA

Yet when Kevin Rudd wants to let his hair down, its got nothing to do with being a smart-ass, he was simply having a night out with the boys. Much like this, if you want to even the score:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHF2AwDLSAw

Keven Rudd was caught in a situation of going to a venue not of his choice and was embarrassed about it. Downer willingly did a full on drag show with Colin Powell with no shame at all, and thought he was really talented.

Then he has the malice to throw daggers to Rudd, someone who is quite alien to the whole thing, and who was just caught with the flow.

There is a big difference here.

Strip Club,
A Brisbane strip club today erected a sign outside their premises saying WELCOME, MR RUDD.

Now that is clever and taking advantage of free publicity.

Apparently the sign attracted plenty of attention, with some even taking photos.

Speaking of strip clubs we noted both Downer and Rudd didnt notice the stippers out the Front of the ABW Enquiry protesting Live Animal Exports.- Funny as.
Some may ask what the connection between the AWB enquiry and these two.
Downer is according to the Queen responsible along with Vaile for Live Exports.
Rudd was the Shadow Mininster resonsible to disclose this to the public.
They were both last seen heading for the hills when asked why they did not tell the public the money to Saddam was not just wheat but the funds from the Cruel Live Export trade.
I hear the strippers enjoyed there day.
Guess what one stripper was wearing?

Live export trade inquiry would be like lambs to slaughter


THE RSPCA may have the answer for fed¬eral Labor politicians struggling to galv¬anise voters with the AWB bribery scandal.
The recent 60 Minutes program on Channel 9 revealing cruelty on Australian cattle in the Middle East hit a nerve.
Not that the RSPCA was surprised by the strong response from Australians outraged at endemic cruelty in the live export trade.
Many Australian voters may not give two hoots about $300 million in kickbacks to Saddam Hussein to sew up Australian wheat sales to Iraq. But it would be a different story if the AWB was ever linked to live exports.

The Gold Coast-based Halal Kind Meats is off to the backblocks of Queensland and West¬ern Australia to look for Australian slaughter¬ing opportunities. Dozens of Australian abatt¬oirs have closed since the live export trade boomed in the 1990s. Kindness to animals is part of the Australian 'fair go' tradition.
The temporary ban on the export of live cattle to Egypt over the 60 Minutes expose looks like a token gesture from a government committed to livestock exports.
Labor appears more concerned with the future of Australia's livestock trade overseas than banning the practice. Even noted animal

lover, HM The Queen, passed the buck back to Australia when asked to intervene.
Cattle rate No. 2 on live export numbers. Sheep are export kings. Those imperfect or injured ones not fed to the sharks or minced alive await their fate at Middle Eastern slaugh¬terhouses. Travel from farm to abattoir can take three months.
Animal welfare zealots reckon Australia's live export trade is 'a story of profit at any cost'. With six million sheep, 850 cattle and 100,000 goats shipped offshore each year there must be a juicy quid in the game for someone.

continued

continued
Why doesn't Labor home in on a Wesl Australian live export investigation which found the trade costs Australia $1.7 billion in local production plus $280 million in house¬hold income and up to 12,000 jobs?
The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils insists live exports are not necessary to comply with Muslim laws.
"That can be done in Australia under the Australian Government supervised Muslim Slaughter Program," said AFIC president Dr Ameer Ali. More than two million sheep were slaughtered in Australia last year for Middle Eastern markets and shipped frozen or chilled.



_an upside at
THE Gold Coast BULLETIN, Tuesday, March 7, 2006 - Page 17

And yet another thread is shamelessly hijacked by PALE.

Yawn.

morjan
The thread is about Rudd and Downer.
This may come as a shock to you but this information comes at their feet.
It "was actually Rudds duty" as Shadow Minister to disclose Downers dirty dealings of not covering up at the AWB Enquiry.

Now considering the sign at the strippers club in Brisbane and our strippers with their sing at the AWB who were there especially for Kevins attention I cant see how we are off post.

I make MO appoligies for doing my job.

Some people actually unlike you care what comes under each Mininsters Port.

Here is what the Queen has to say about Downer. You will need your ,music for this.>

http://www.livexports.com/cowgun.html

http://www.livexports.com/queen.html

"Mind you I dont know what she would say about Kevin at the strippers."

Trust me I think I know what the real truth is as to what Kevin did at the strippers in USA.

I would put a shilling on the side that the story he ran would be right on the money.
He seems to have a problem with strippers.
The girls sent him an open invitation to speak with them at the AWB Enquiry but he headed for the Hills.
So if you have a stripper story and its connected with Rudd - Do Tell!
I would say we are very much on the subject of this thread.

Oh and Morgan
Ever wonder why we sent strippers??

Some people have short memories.

I recall when the last Federal Election campaign was in full swing and the dirt file on Latham was being fed to the journos by the Government, Keating told Latham he should use the "file" on Howard and his supposed association with Pru Goward.

This was probably in part, payback for Keating over the earlier Tony Staley smear over his piggery interests.

To his credit, Latham refused and the matter wasn't publicly raised.

Please remind me, who are the gutter politicians?

LET'S NOT GET INTO THE GUTTER WITH SOME POLITICIANS!LET'S BE POSITIVE AND REALISE THAT THERE ARE SOME HONEST POLITICIANS OUT THER REGARDLESS OF OUR POLITICAL PREFERENCES PEOPLE MUST OPEN THEIR EYES TO FIND SOME POLITICIANS WITH ETHICS AND MORALS ON BOTH SIDES OF POLITICS INSTEAD OF JUST FOLLOWING PARTY LINES!! THE NEGATIVITY OF SOME PEOPLE IS ASTOUNDING, LOOK AROUND FOR THE GOOD THINGS IN LIFE !! SADLY WE ARE BECOMING A VERY NEGATIVE NATION !! WHY IS THIS?
I THINK THIS NATION CAN DO BETTER!

Irish,
Name a truly honest politician and I will consider sending my vote in their direction.
It cannot be anyone who has been seen babykissing on the evening news.
Can't can you?

Wow Fletcher, you've tarnished your halo with this one. Repeating rumour and innuendo, hiding accusations behind what other people say.

And YOU are accusing others of less than noble behaviour. Very grubby work sport.

c'mon you lot, haven't you got any serious issues to debate ? so what if a useles mutt like Rudd gets blotto. do you really believe Downer could be bothered with that ? it's just one of those Labor/media leaks to make people believe that the conservatives are into gutter politics. there are people out there battling for a living & the media has nothing better to do than focus on such ridiculous frivolities. if Rudd wants to get blotto that's his business. I'm sure conservatives do the same. as a matter of fact most of us do at times. I think that's what alcohol was actually created for. why don't you all focus on the corruption & incompetence of the public service instead & expose those useless bureaucrats who cause so much grief in our society.

Pammy, you must be desperate to attack me personally. I am not a public figure with the salary and power of Alexander Downer. I don't run this country like his mob does. I don't have a position that requires me to respect a level playing field. The matter is that Alexander Downer has said some grubby things that are none of his business.

So I'm just spreading rumors and innuendo that you so defensively crow about and you don't like? It was no a rumor. It was fully documented in the 7:30 report that Alexander Downer was known to have drag shows in fishnet stockings with Colin Powell, and had been known to do similar drag in front of children. Much like Fat Cat did I guess. But Fat Cat was caught.

Everything I mentioned to start this thread was backed with web sites from market research, interviews with Kerry O' Brian from the 7:30 report, and so on.

Yes this is dirty laundry. But your friend Alexander Downer who you are strangely defensive of, started this dirty laundry himself.

Alexander Downer is no stranger to grubby politics, he does it frequently. He's probably one of the grubbiest of them all.

And me? You don't know me. Playing with "the Saint" thing is primary school stuff, everyone knows my tag.

This happened 4 years ago in New York.

Bob Brown summed up the whole thing the best. Four years ago, Howard and Downer invaded Iraq, with the US, against United Nations law to which we were a signatory to. The excuse was that that there were WMDs. They were wrong and they were irresponsible and wear the shame of thousands of innocent women and children in Iraq. Did they retreat? No! Against the advice of every intelligence official in the world they went on and on spending billions of our taxes to kill people.

Meanwhile we inherit a paranoid war culture, lose our rights in sedition laws, and all is in the name of "democracy". The lies overflow like Niagara falls to Buffalo.

Strippers?

Wobbles
To his credit??
The cruelty of piggeries is everbody persons responsibilty to raise!

I think if Kevin Rudd wants to see strippers and become 'snotty" as was reported,let him be.
But if he wants me to vote for him, he will have to improve his honesty.
His latest excuse was that the very next day he phoned long suffering feminist Mrs T Rudd and told her "I've been a bit of a goose again,Mrs T. Rudd,Bussinesswoman answered,"not again what did you do this time Kevin,"Well you know,I could not say no when I was asked if I wanted to visit a New York brothel the one with bedrooms upstrairs where the girls you pick of the lap dancing floor do a private show."Mrs T. Rudd,"well youve really had it with me I'll be in England when you return so don't expect any favours from me."
"Oh,darling you will stand up for me if the media get a wind of what a goose I've been Kevin answered.

Fletcher, if part of the reason for your dislike of the current govt. is because of their standards then this sort of conduct from our next PM hardly sets a good example, does it? Over consumption of alcohol is accepted as a significant mental and physical health problem; and more than the deed, the justification is the thing that rankles with me.
Your sources, the 'poll', and the Leak interview are not proof of Downers sexual persuasion. The first is a joke, and the interview, at least in transcipt, implies nothing to back your innuedo.
Mate, with posts like this one, maybe the adage 'people get the govt. they deserve', is more than appropriate to you right now.

People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming,

The accusations were in relation to some sort of corruption, not cruelty.

By the way, have you seen the latest bit of legislation and how it may affect the agenda of your group? (Trade Practices Amendment (Small Business Protection) Bill 2007 )

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/free-speech-not-while-were-on-sheeps-back/2007/08/22/1187462353847.html

Careful what you say or you may end up in court.

Wobbles
Cruelty and corruption go hand in hand but thanks.

Most groups are used to the thuggery of both Governments as they struggle to keep the public in the dark about Australian Governments discraceful lack of Animal welfare concerns.

This of course compliments they are also looking at turning Australia into a Islamic Ritual Culture country.


I have been tied up in a court case say no I had not seen it.

The publicity alone to charge somebody for telling the truth will be seen as a huge win for people who care about animals.

Peter Costello should have gone a bit further and made the law that when the public make a donation to animals it goes to the animals to improve conditions it goes straight into the piggeries to enlarge cages or better still into a free range farmer who does do the right thing so they can expand.

This would include the RSPCA. Speaking of letters I have one from the head of the Church claiming they are "not allowed" to help animals because- "Peter Costello wont let them."

It is with Free Range farmers our future lies and there is nothing wrong with advertsing and promoting a good Free Range cruelty free farmers.
I hope this new law will serve as a first step to "forcing animal groups to get behind good farmers' to be honest Wobbles because thats something we have pushed for a long time.

I dont hear labours Rudd ?

Seaking of Downer-

So I guess this means that Downer and Vaile will Sue the Queen now because according to her and Prince Charles letters they are responsible for the cruel live trade?

Her words not mine

Funny As- And! in writing too.

Here is some interesting information about Downers handling of Australias conerns_ [ Oh printed by the media so sorry to dissapoint you Alex.
One of Murdocks too the large live animals exporter along with Packers.

http://www.livexports.com/cowgun.html

http://www.livexports.com/queen.html

Here is one from Australian Muslim leaders. At least their defence can be racism.>

http://www.livexports.com/afic.pdf
Thanks Wobbles

People Against Live Exports & Intensive Farming,

I may not agree with you on everything you have to say but I do believe that you should have the right to say it in a free society.

Strange how quietly this one slipped by, considering the potential impact it may have on everybody.

I see you have started a new topic based on this development.

Good luck in - and my best wishes for - your ongoing struggle.

Wobbles
Sorry I did not see you post earlier. I would like to thank you for bring this to our attention. You should pop in to the new thread Wobbles.
I was sus at the last meeting with AFIC but I had no idea they had gone this far nehind our backs.
I will keep an eye out for your threads and see if we really are so different.
I just believe in a far go which is the real Australian way.
Yes this WILL be used in any way ACCC are told to use it.
Now just before I go I think its time we replaced ACCC with an Inderpendant office too.
Again thanks from the crew at PALE