In 2007, one of the things that brought Rudd to power was his claim to be a "financial conservative" and his criticism of the big spending government. At the time, government gross debt to GDP was 9.7%.

Now, that debt is 45.1%.

In 2020, the now leader of the Opposition thinks that spending is "reform". He would spend more, starting with increased handouts to parents wanting to farm out their kids and responsibilities to child care centres. Not much chance that Albo will ever be PM. Unlike Rudd, awful person that he was and is, the current leader of the Opposition won't hold the Coalition to account.

Crap government, crap opposition. What hope is there for Australia?

Very much hope, actually.
Our government is a sovereign currency issuer.
It only borrows in Australian dollars, so creditworthiness considerations do not apply.
The size of the debt does not matter, but the deficit does.
Before the GFC, running surpluses was a sensible policy because it reduced inflation, so interest rates could be kept low.
Now interest rates and inflation are both below 1% so there would be no benefit from running a surplus, and trying to do so would just shrink the economy.

The government's failure to understand this has done us immense damage, as (particularly under Abbott) they resorted to absurd false economies in an attempt to reach a surplus figure. It's good to know both sides of politics have finally started to wake up to the truth!

Two-thirds of Australian government debt is held by non-resident investors – a share that has risen since 2009 and remains historically high. But it's difficult to say precisely who these investors are, though the largest bondholders often include central banks and commercial banks. (University of NSW).

This might be a good time to look back to the past.
Many may be surprised to learn that our federal
politicians used to boast about the size of their
budget deficits during periods of economic growth.

The following link reminds us:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-30/liberal-party-of-robert-menzies-proudly-declared-large-deficits/12609876

Of course there's hope for Australia. We need to remember:

"There's nothing like a crisis to turn conventional wisdom
on its head, and that is precisely what coronavirus is doing
to economics".

Foxy,

The economic problems Australia has at the moment are the direct result of externalities that were beyond governmental control eg. the WuFlu pandemic, Chinese aggression towards Australia.

If you are going to look to the past all you will uncover is a long list of wrong decisions by dishonest and untrustworthy politicians, bureaucrats and business people that coupled Australia to a future of adverse externalities.

The old conservative having a whinge about Australians again. The Morrison government has become super socialist with its economic reaction to the pandemic. By and large there has been little criticism of the measures taken. Although some waste is evident, stuffing cash into already bloated Aged Pensioner bank accounts is one example of economic stupidity.

One thing I'll agree with is the Labor leader Albanese is ineffectual, and next to useless. As I predicted on the Forum to Comrade Belly many years back Shorten would never be PM, the same goes for Albo. I can see the WA Premier Mark McGowan making a run for the Federal leadership sometime after the next election.

Paul1405,

The LNP has stuffed up big time with its handling of Australia's relations with China and unless they make Gladys Liu, who is a former(?) affiliate of the CCP, Prime Minister I don't like their chances of getting re-elected even if one of the Three Stooges is leader of the Labor Party.

China now has it in for Soot and the Boyz and it will keep turning the screws to ensure that every voter is anxious to get rid of them come the next election and replace them with anyone who looks like they could get China back on board.

But there is hope if Soot decides to follow Mr Opinion's 10 point plan to placate the Chinese:

1. Permit Huawei to operate unrestricted in Australia.
2. Rescind proposed federal legislation aimed at preventing Victoria and WA from signing up to China's Belt & Road Initiative.
3. Allow the Chinese to have unrestricted purchase rights to Australian industries and natural resources.
4. Ban Australian media from saying anything derogatory about China's strategic policies.
5. Withdraw Australian military from exercises in the South China Sea.
6. Rescind any alliances Australia has with the US and Japan.
7. Cease commenting on Chinese ambitions for Hong Kong and Taiwan becoming unified with the PRC.
8. Permit free migration for tens of millions of Chinese to Australia and allow them access to Australian business and property markets at a 50% discount.
9. Elevate former(?) affiliate of the CCP Gladys Liu to the position of Leader of the Liberal Party and Prime Minister of Australia.
10. Make Soot and the Boys crawl naked on their hands and knees to Emperor Xi and kiss his feet and plead for his forgiveness.

And if it doesn't work well they can always fall back on making Gladys Liu, former(?) affiliate of the CCP, Leader of the Liberal Party and the PM.

It's the only win-win situation they're likely to see for a long time.

Mr. Opinion,

Are we ever going to see evidence of all that higher education you have bragged about since you arrived? All that is visible is that you can read and write (although it often seems that you haven't correctly read what other posters have written).

Australia's enemy - apart from its own politicians - is the Chinese Communist Party, not Chinese people, most of whom are not members of the CCP, nor Chinese immigrants, many of whom are escaping Hong Kong and hate the CCP - just as many of the poor buggers confined to mainland China must hate the CCP.

ttbn,

I'm having too much fun to do what you ask of me.

Interesting point you make about the members of the CCP not being Chinese. Might be a bit hard to prove though.

You seem to be of the opinion that the only people in China who support the members of the CCP are the members of the CCP themselves.

I suppose you also think that the only people in the UK who support the British royal family are the members of the royal family themselves. Or that the only people who support the US Congress are the congressmen themselves.

It is the Chinese nation-state that you should be concerned with and this includes both State and Society in China.

Don't be fooled into thinking that the members of the CCP are acting independently of the nation. The Chinese people will go to war for the nation-state in which they see Xi as the Head of State, which is basically their war leader.

Why do you think we retain the Queen as our Head of State? She is our war leader behind whom we will rally to defend the nation-state.

Every nation needs a war leader and that role is embodied in the Head of State. You can trace this concept back through history if you want to test it.

I did not envisage 'China' or 'Chinese' being mentioned. The thread is about the quality of Australian politicians and what hope we have with any of them.

You, Mr. Opinion, have demonstrated your oft failure to read what other people write. I said most Chinese people are not members of the CCP, not most CCP members are not Chinese. Perhaps you do have a reading disability that you generally manage to hide with blather.

You are clearly obsessed with the Chinese. There seems to be no subject that you can't squeeze them into. You have even invented huge numbers of Chinese immigrants, when the last census shows that a mere 5.6% of Australians, about 1.2 million own to Chinese ancestry. Quite a lot of those would be descendants of gold miners who arrived here before the Opinion family did. One Chinamen arrived here as a free settler in 1818; the rest came in the 1850s. From 2008 to 2019, under 30,000 Chinese came to live permanently in Australia.

We are not overrun by Chinese, and we never will be. Any Chinese military aggression towards Australia would result in world war. So far, Morrison has told the CCP where to get off, and China's only friends are totalitarian shitholes.

Now, try to be useful. With our poor quality politicians, what hope does Australia have?

ttbn,

Point 10 of my plan to placate the Chinese has Soot and the Boyz crawling around naked on their hands and knees and kissing Xi's feet.

What more could you want?

Australia's destiny is now inextricably tied to China and I believe that inevitably China will dominate Australia and populate the country with tens of millions of its citizens, creating a super-colony the likes of which the world has never seen.

And I think it will be a lot sooner than later.

Your figure of 5.6% Australians are Chinese might actually be accurate. But what you are failing to take into account is that another 10% of people residing in Australia might be Chinese who are not Australians (i.e., Chinese who are not Australian citizens and can actually be classed as foreign residents.) That might make sense as to the reason there are so many Chinese on the streets of Sydney: most of them are not Australians and therefore not showing up in the census.

This is probably the group hiding all the Chinese spies and operatives who are in readiness for when Xi calls them into action.

And it's all the fault of people like you for not vetting them when you allowed them to come here.

Only one way out of this dilemma ttbn. We just have to send Soot and the Boyz to Beijing to pay naked homage to Xi. It's our only way out.

Misopinionated,

I'm beginning to see where you're coming from:

* You can accurately judge the proportions of populations by those on the streets;

* a high proportion of people on Sydney's (or Adelaide's) streets are of people who are students and/or people who live and work in the cities, usually in service occupations;

* a high proportion of those who use the streets of cities are students - all manner of Asian students, with perhaps a clear majority of whom are young and female;

So:

* a high proportion of people using our streets are Asians who are Chinese, young and female, as well as students. This is because a high proportion of all Asians from Yemen to Japan, from Yakutia to Sri Lanka, are young, female Chinese students and service-workers.

Okay, got it now. I think. No, wait a minute .....

Joe

Mr. Opinion,

Gawd!

Joe,

Gawd!.

Ttbn,

Oops ! And I should have broadened that:

"A high proportion of people using our streets are Asians who are Chinese, young and female, as well as students, who speak only the Beijing dialect of Chinese, and who support, or are agents of, the CCP. This is because a high proportion of all Asians from Yemen to Japan, from Yakutia to Sri Lanka, are young, female Chinese students and service-workers, speaking Chinese only with a Beijing-dialect, who are agents of, or support the CCP."

For the record (and I don't know how one would prove this: perhaps Hong Kong is a sort of test-case), I suspect that only a minority of actual Chinese in China, let alone elsewhere, support the CCP, and that minority would overwhelmingly be members of the CCP.

Joe

Ttbn,

And you make the very salient point that Chinese have been contributing to Australia's prosperity for a very long time. I wonder how many country towns survived on vegetables and fruit grown by the old Chinese bloke down near the river. Very old relatives all over Australia, from Tenterfield to Oodnadatta to Darwin, would remember him carrying water up to his crops on his shoulder poles.

While Misopinionated's relatives would be sitting around with their thumbs up their arses, chucking rocks on their neighbours rooves, like real ratbag Aussies.

Joe

Pseudo-Mouth,

Now here you go this time putting words into poor old ttbn's mouth.

Actually why don't we make it 15% of people residing in Australia might be Chinese who are not Australians? 3.5 million basically split between Sydney and Melbourne. That sounds about right.

And guess what. Berejiklian said on TV tonight that she wants to start bringing in foreign students and workers now that the international border will be reopening soon. You don't win a prize for guessing where she will be bringing them from.

The statistics on foreign ancestry by the ABS is voluntary ie. not accurate- it's based on what people claim to identify with.

The Chinese Australian's don't contribute to anyone but their own opportunism- if they wanted to contribute they would leave.

Loudmouth must really hate British Australian's- that's why he wants to kill them off- and disenfranchise us from our land- and rejects any attempt to protect British Australian's. I don't think he ever left communism- despite his claim to identifying as a reformed communist.

British Australian's are the victims of multiculturalism- but to act the victim is not our way.

Globalist Universalists are the enemy that seek to kill us. We must look forward to a world without them

Canem Malum,

Pseudo-Mouth is definitely in the China camp. I picked up on that a long time ago.

But I'm amazed that Berejiklian is so eager to start bringing in cashed up Chinese at a time when China is trying to browbeat Australia into kowtowing to it.

I bet Xi and the Boyz will be personally selecting who gets a visa into Australia: Captain Wu will be an engineer, Lieutenant Chu will be a postgrad student, etc., etc. all drawn from the loyal corps of the Peoples Liberation Army.

Berejiklian won't have a clue because all she will be thinking about is the revenue going into the government coffers.

Someone (but not me) will probably get in on the act as an honest and trustworthy cash-for-visa consultant. (Of course I'm jealous because I was hoping to fill that void.)

It is a bloody waste of time trying to get anyone to stick to the topic. China/Chinese has sweet FA to do with this one. Aidan and Foxy are the only respondents who have had anything to say about 'What Hope Is There For Australia?'

ttbn, I gave you a reasonable response to your opening post. I was not concerned by the intent of the Morrison governments approach to the economic crises, but I did question some of the methods used. I disagreed with the way 'Jobkeeper' was organised, and I disagreed with some of the business incentives the way they were applied. Some of the knee-jerk reacation was too open to abuse. 'Jobseeker' was absolutely necessary, but the cash handouts to pensioners was nothing more than a sop to keep that group happy at election time.

A conservative regime in power, not willing to embrace basic socialism as a response to the pandemic, both from a heath prospective and a economic one, would have driven unemployment through the roof, and business collapse would have been on a grand scale. The conservatives would have give us The Great Depression II with their do nothing, steady as she goes nonsense! We should be thankful that we don't have that American nut job Trump in power, and we should also be thankful the local nut job, which you supported, Corny Banana and his Australian Conservatives never gained any sort of traction with the electorate. Heaven help us if those fruitnicks ever gain control in this country!

Thanks for the correction ttbn.

I don't know what happened with Labor during the Rudd era.

It started out with a Small Australia policy which became a Big Australia policy.

The suspicion is someone got to them.

45.1 % is concerning but given the current "situation" not surprising.

I would have preferred to see the authorities pulling together to keep business processes and structures limping along- now comatose- millions jobless. Interesting when social security payments stop. Obviously ScoMo can only keep payments up for so long. Perhaps Labor Victorian Government used the crisis to put pressure on the Federal Liberal Government in bloody minded communist political tactics.

I find the cost of packages through our national mail service Australia Post to be an impediment to effective business- something that needs to be resolved. My understanding is this is due to international treaties. It's interesting to see non-traditional players entering the package delivery sector. You start to become aware of the national security of logistics. It seems that it costs less to send product from China than locally.

I agree with ttbn- spending is not reform- I remember Stiglitz on borrowing- Simply "you borrow money to create more money"- the point of community is that by working together everyone is better off- but what if mismanagement and "corruption" mean that on average everyone is worse off. In the case of pollies they borrow a large amount of money so that they can keep more money for themselves at high interest to the tax payer- but the system is geared that way- it's our fault.

Whatever party gets in we are going down- with some we go down much faster. Small government is generally better- but we need a strong military hierarchy with roots in the community.

Maybe the hardship that we face will lead us to help us face up to reality- but more likely a snake oil salesman will come out of the woodwork with a shiny new device to lead us further away.

I admire those British Australian's/ British that lived through The Great Depression- discipline, improvisation, toughness.

ttbn,

You just said above that China/Chinese has sweet FA to do with Australia.

Are you alright? Do you follow what goes on in the world?

Looks like you might be in the pro-China camp with Pseudo-Mouth, Foxy, david f, et al.

In answer to Mr Opinion-

Berejiklian is Liberal but still believes in immigration for different reason's (economic) than the socialists (universalism globalism- cultural hegemony/ engineering cultural direction by cultural dominance)- that's why many are looking back to traditionalism.

The Liberal party consists of "Economic Free Traders" and "Traditionalists".

In this way ttbn is right- the Government and the Opposition are sort of pathetic- and it's because they are essentially on the same side- I suspect that is ttbn's point.

For me the Liberal Party's redeeming point is that there is a large minority traditionalist component- through certain people- mainly the ones who got rid of Turnbull including Abbott.

A lot has been said about the right eating it's own- something the left does less in a sense perhaps. For me Patrick Deneen clarifies the issue when he talks about "the politics of the so called waters of freedom"- maybe one day people will realise- when they stick their heads out of the self reflecting surface- that they can swim in the sky- in a fluid of lesser density- traditionalism.

Mr. Opinion,

There's your reading disability again. I said China and the Chinese had nothing to do with THIS SUBJECT - not with Australia. Perhaps your obsession with Chinese (hatred?) also clouds your judgement and logic. I've made my position on China clear many times. It is of no interest to me in this thread.

CM,

You were responding to Mr. Opinion's nonsense, which is understandable. Thanks for your contribution now. We are certainly "going down" as you say. I don't think there is much hope at all. Premier Marshmallow's blind panic here in SA over 22 mild cases of the virus has pretty much finished off any faith I might have had in our politicians. He even tried to convince us that there was a new, more deadly strain of it here - with the help of his glamour girl medical 'expert' after they realised, without admitting it, that they had made fools of themselves. Even the police commissioner, a decent bloke normally, wouldn't apologise for the stuff up.

In the meantime, there is not a cigarette paper between the Coalition and Labor when it comes to stupidity. Like pseudo conservatives all over the West, Morrison has folded, leaving lots of people who would rather vote 'informal' than vote for Labor, which after all is only doing what it has always done, while the Coalition has treacherously gone left.

ttbn,

I think you are the one with the reading disability (a result of your low level education) because the topic is called 'What Hope Is There For Australia?'.

It's not 'What Hope Is There For France?' or 'What Hope Is There For Samoa?' or something else.

Asking 'What Hope Is There For Australia?' opens a wide range of responses.

And given the current war of words between Australia and China I think it is more than appropriate to answer the question with recourse to that situation.

No wonder you and others couldn't get through an Arts degree in things like history, sociology, anthropology, archaeology, philosophy, etc. Obviously you just don't have what it takes.

Mr. Opinion,

You have no idea of my educational qualifications because, unlike you, I don't talk about myself all the time. I have no desire to impress other people, particularly strangers on a computer screen.

You are always going on about your degrees, but I repeat: there is no evidence of 'higher education' in your posts, or in your reasoning. Like the average person, you are able to write to Year 8 or 9 standard, and your reading skill is a bit iffy.

ttbn,

I can tell you are not a scholar.

I suppose that you are just a regular vocationally trained person like most other people in life.

Nothing wrong with that. I even have a vocational degree (engineering) and make my livelihood from the engineering field.

What I'm emphasising is that like most people you do not have any training and skills in the Arts things like history, sociology, anthropology, archaeology, philosophy, etc.

Nothing wrong with that ............... You can't all be like me.

ttbn- I think Steve Marshall's issue stems from his being from the out crowd and not having the confidence that comes with being on the in crowd. If you check out his background you may get a sense of what I'm referring to. He like many leaders seems to have been sent in to create universal appeal in the electorate. I don't think he is necessarily a bad person. South Australia has been luckier with it's leaders than many. At least Steve Marshall's family seems to have a long history based in South Australia and Adelaide and so he is loyal.
At least he doesn't participate in sitting around in a circle talking about the euphoria they had the first time they read Das Capital because it's the only point in common that they have.

For the record I think the Labor Party will drag us to hell much faster- they are much more communist than the Liberals and have moved even more to the left in the last 50 years since Comrade Whitlam.

I guess that the Liberal party keeps trying to superficially appeal to the electorate based without really trying to actually do anything. They need to grow a bigger pie rather gaining market share. The problem is those with power generally want to use that over other people so relative power is more important. The communists want a power hegemony too for different reasons. I am suspicious that Communists such as Stalin only want to destroy the family so they can have sex with others wives. While they claim to live on a higher plane above human failings they in fact swim in failings that others find repulsive. Similar to to Schopenhauer vs Nietzsche. So much for tabula rasa.


Mr Opinion- Perhaps ttbn's choice of title was like many headlines not completely accurate. I guess it's hard to respect OLO when you've written so many serious journal articles. Anyway I find you both have interesting contributions and I feel you both benefit from each other. You are both brave.

Mr. Opinion,

Don't be so bloody childish. You can't tell anything about anyone unless you actually know them. I think that you are a liar, but I can't prove that without actually investigating you as a real person, not some anonymous shite-stirrer on the internet.

CM,

You have probably gathered, I am a genuine conservative and, therefore, have nobody to vote for, federally or statewise. I am still waiting to see any difference between the Marshall government and the 16 year old Labor government it replaced. I would not be surprised if the Liberals were kicked out after only one term. The Labor leader can run rings around Marshall for personality and presentation. He has taken over from a real ratbag, ex-taxi driver who used to do most of the spruiking for Labor under the pathetic Jay Weatherill leadership.

Three Liberal ministers have been caught out for not being careful enough with their expenses. Marshall looks as though he has pooped himself when he is on TV, when he was defending the ministers, when he stuffed up the latest unnecessary virus panic, in parliament and when wearing a hard hat standing near some over-budget, over-time freeway or new building.

Getting rid of all state governments might be one solution to the hopeless situation we seem to be in.

ttbn,

Yes you can. Just ask me questions related to the Arts things like history, sociology, anthropology, archaeology, philosophy, etc.

And I'll respond by asking you questions.

Better still, I'll go first: Who's your favourite anthropologist?

I'm sure I'd poop myself if I had to defend those idiots. He should demote or kick them out.

Yes there are no genuine conservative or traditionalist parties in Australia- that's why our task is so glorious and heroic. As Achilles (Brad Pitt) says in the movie Troy- "immortality is there- take it".

It's somewhat disingenuous to take on a glorious task then complain that it's so hard- sometimes I have to admonish myself.

The problem is genuine conservative and traditionalists don't have a structured plan to move forward- but there is some movement if you look hard. We need to move forward to a point where the movement takes on a life of it's own- in the meantime you and I and Mr Opinion have to drag things excruciatingly forward. If it's any consolation you do ok. Sometimes when I don't know how to respond I give it time- sometimes I write something but don't send it. As they say grief has four stages. When soldiers are emotional before battle it's because they are committed to fight- even if they die- they are very brave. Everyone makes mistakes the brave pick themselves up.

"The problem is genuine conservative and traditionalists don't have a structured plan to move forward"

CM, you and ttbn will just have to be satisfied with swapping preferences between Crazy Clive and the Lovely Pauline. Since Corny Banana went down like a bucket of Sh!t, you don't have another messiah on the horizon.

Mr O, don't expect much from a couple of blokes who thought the Dangerous Doctor Donald was the answer to their prayers!

Paul1405,

I'm sure ttbn wants to engage in some intellectual discourse with me because he is set on proving that I am not what I say.

Here's your chance ttbn. Come on ........ start talking!

And I can get to test what I know about the Arts things like history, sociology, anthropology, archaeology, philosophy, etc. and vice versa.

Morrison has hidden behind neutrality saying Australia is not siding with America against China, but making up its own mind. We don't have to choose between the US and China, he reckons. With allies like us, the US doesn't need enemies.

He has also bragged to fellow non-conservative, Boris Johnson, about how Australia is working towards the mythical mania of zero emissions.

ttbn,

Where are all these questions from you to test if I am what I say?

Don't tell me you don't have a clue what to ask me.

Misopinionated,

Any half-wit can just look up Wikipedia. Maybe you should give it a try.

Joe

Pseudo-mouth,

You're missing the point.

ttbn is afraid to put me to the test because he knows I am what I say and that I can make him look like a dolt.

Why don't you try? See how far you get.

Misopinionated,

Nobody knows that you are what you say you are (or any of us are), unless you claim to be the Village Idiot. That would make the most sense :)

Anybody can cite stuff from Wikipedia. So, from Wikipedia, who's YOUR favourite anthropologist ? And more importantly, why ? Get a primary school kid to help you look it all up :)

Joe

Pseudo-Mouth,

It's Clifford Geertz.

Reason: because I was into symbolism and my thinking has been strongly influenced by his two works Negara and and Agricultural Involution.

Joe,

I think Mr. Opinion has demonstrated that he is not the wizard he claims to be without any of us playing Mastermind with him; or Masturbating with him.

ttbn,

Which tells everyone you haven't got a clue what I just said above.

No use you asking me any questions about any of the Arts things like history, sociology, anthropology, archaeology, philosophy, etc.

You wouldn't know where to begin.

Mr Opinion-

Symbolic Anthropology looks interesting as you've alluded...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_anthropology

Seems to dovetail well with your well known search for meaning perhaps...

Thanks for bringing Geertz up Mr Opinion...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Geertz

According to Clifford Geertz, "[b]elieving, with Max Weber, that man is an animal suspended in webs of significance he himself has spun, I take culture to be those webs, and the analysis of it to be therefore not an experimental science in search of law but an interpretive one in search of meaning".[1] In theory, symbolic anthropology assumes that culture lies within the basis of the individuals’ interpretation of their surrounding environment, and that it does not in fact exist beyond the individuals themselves. Furthermore, the meaning assigned to people’s behavior is molded by their culturally established symbols.

I'm into linoleum tiles myself. Is that the same Clifford who used to appear on the telly with Mr Snooty the glove puppet? He was so cute and cuddly with his squeaky little voice, Mr Snooty that is, not Clifford.

ttbn, the Pope said "Stop it, or you'll go blind!"

Misopinionated,

Anthropologists: I got a lot out of Geertz's 'Agricultural Involution' forty-odd years ago. But I really do admire the works of Oscar Lewis, John U. Ogbu, W.E.H. Stanner and the Berndts; the late Napoleon Chagnon too, he really stuck his neck out. Lewis Morgan and Sir J. G. Frazer amongst the earlier pioneers. Fascinating material.

I think Oscar Lewis mis-titled his major theories, about the 'Culture of Poverty' - I would have called it the 'Culture of Marginalisation'. He was Abraham Maslow's brother-in-law, they probably learnt a lot from each other. Lewis fell foul of Castro in Cuba (and so did his theory) - no, it didn't disappear with socialism: it's far harder to replace than Lewis thought - in other words, it can morph into different sorts of cultural marginalisation in different sorts of societies, depending on the malleability of social and economic factors.

But that's another story.

Joe

Never run across John U. Ogbu.

Oscar Lewis of course from reading urban sociology.

Chagnon I studied his film on the Yanomamo when reading visual anthropology.

Stanner I remember because I used one of his books to answer an exam question on liminal phases in Aboriginal religious rites.

All memories today. I've drifted into environmental sociology which I see as being more relevant than traditional studies like kinship are today.

My focus is researching what scientists and scholars have to say on related topics. I particularly like the idea of using a Big History approach (which is really just another name for anthropology.)

Misop,

Educational anthropology, esp. urban minority education.

Try this Ogbu (and Simons) article:

http://anthrosource.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1525/aeq.1998.29.2.155

Disciples of Ogbu (he died in 2003) include Margaret Gibson, Elisabeth Matute-Bianchi, Suarez-Orozco ...... brilliant: if I had my time over, i would be applying his theories to Indigenous education here, but that's someone else's job now.

Joe

There is hope but it requires out-breeding on a major scale !

Now that Trumpf is about to be dragged out of his bunker, I think the world as a whole has a chance for a Brand New Day.

Wonderful ! "What Hope Is There For Australia ?" Plenty ! Like the rest of the world, we can now plan to breathe free and get on with life, without having to take the Trumpf Swamp into account.

Oh happy day !

Joe

I saw a news item yesterday where there is a movement amongst the Democrats to have Trump and his followers investigated for treason after the inauguration in January.

Biden has stated he doesn't want to pursue it because he doesn't want to be another Trump.

Although I think he would probably give silent support to it.

I think we will see Trump's supporters start to drop off when they know they might be arraigned for treason.

Biden has stated he doesn't want to pursue it because he doesn't want to be another Trump.
Mr Opinion,
Biden is too scared of what would surface about him, that's why !

we can now plan to breathe free
Loudmouth2,
How long can you hold your breath ?

It's good to see China putting pressure on Australia with threats to undermine our economy.

Why is it good?

Because Mr Opinion get's to say: I TOLD YOU SO.

And it is going to get worse and China demands that Australia bends to its will.

And keep in mind there are millions of Chinese in Australia who will take up China's cause by putting pressure on the Commonwealth to do what China wants.

Kudos Mr Opinion.

Yes folks, the drinks are on China:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7889101/Grapes-Wrath-Fury-Chinese-investors-buy-wineries-Barossa.html

Looks like it might be a case of China knocking out the local competition.

I bet the pro-China camp on The Forum will be raising a glass of red in celebration tonight for China putting a 200% tariff non-Chinese owned wine imports.

And the pro-China camp like Foxy, Pseudo-Mouth, david f, etc. wonder why I don't like the Chinese.

But underneath these recent actions by China I get the impression that China is looking for a reason to justify an invasion of Australia eg., Australia nationalising Chinese owned farms etc.

Best response Australia can do is start cancelling the visas of all the people China has been settling in Australia over the past several decades and send them back to China.

PS

And ban them from buying any duty free wine on their way out.

Parasites!

Any odds on our government caving in or not caving in under pressure from people making money from China? If they do cave in, it's curtains for Australian. The bullying will only increase. There is no indication that that joke Birmingham is looking for new markets, or that we are going to start manufacturing again.

ttbn,

Don't forget we still have Mr Opinion's 10 point plan to placate the Chinese:

1. Permit Huawei to operate unrestricted in Australia.
2. Rescind proposed federal legislation aimed at preventing Victoria and WA from signing up to China's Belt & Road Initiative.
3. Allow the Chinese to have unrestricted purchase rights to Australian industries and natural resources.
4. Ban Australian media from saying anything derogatory about China's strategic policies.
5. Withdraw Australian military from exercises in the South China Sea.
6. Rescind any alliances Australia has with the US and Japan.
7. Cease commenting on Chinese ambitions for Hong Kong and Taiwan becoming unified with the PRC.
8. Permit free migration for tens of millions of Chinese to Australia and allow them access to Australian business and property markets at a 50% discount.
9. Elevate former(?) affiliate of the CCP Gladys Liu to the position of Leader of the Liberal Party and Prime Minister of Australia.
10. Make Soot and the Boys crawl naked on their hands and knees to Emperor Xi and kiss his feet and plead for his forgiveness.

Wouldn't you love to see a bunch of low-life scumbag politicians crawling around naked on their hands and knees in front of Xi and saying "We're so humble, we're so humble!"

And Xi replies: "I'll drink to that!"

Mr. Opinion,

"Wouldn't you love to see a bunch of low-life scumbag politicians crawling around naked on their hands and knees in front of Xi and saying "We're so humble, we're so humble!" ".

I don't care about 'low-life scumbag politicians' or what happens to them. But what about us? What happens to us? Do you really want us to be like a billion plus Chinese who are already crawling around in the dust?

According to Morrison recently, China has done more to relieve poverty than any other country. Me thinks he's trying to worm his way back in, since he put Australia on the outer with the Chinese.

Paul1405,

Soot, along with Dazza's gal, still wants to bring in all the cashed up Chinese he can get his hands on.

The enemy is already inside the gate and Soot and Dazza's gal just keep turning a blind eye to it.

BTW The fire season is just starting so isn't time for Soot and the family to skip off to the Paradise Gardens Hotel in Hawaii?

"Aloha Australia from Soot and the family. Don't call me ..... I'll call you."

Yes. The bushfire season. More scaremongering opportunities for the MSM - worst ever conditions ever, as they say every year. Regular exhortations to look to your bushfire 'plan' on metropolitan radio where the chances of bushfires are zero. People on TV droning on about being burnt out in the bush, telling everyone else what they should be doing, as they themselves rebuild in the exact same spot they were burnt out of. The media, politicians and people lose me off more and more.

"lose me off"? A bit of Google censoring? I actually typed "piss me off".

Me thinks he's trying to worm his way back in, since he put Australia on the outer with the Chinese.
Paul1405,
You, thinking ? Isn't that called an oxymoron ?

Looks like China is asking for No.10 of Mr Opinion's 10 point plan:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9001553/China-tells-Scott-Morrison-kneel-ground-slap-face-live-television.html?ito=push-notification&ci=55984&si=21568413

One point down, nine to go.

The Forum's pro-China camp will be popping the wine corks over that.

I honestly fail to see why so many people are so desperately against everything that could be for the good of all.
Scheme after scheme, failure after failure with the only emphasis being the exploitation of loopholes instead of setting immovable standards. Our Tax system is jeopardising our future as is our legal system.
Socially we're breaking down at a great rate & many are fooling themselves by the odd good will on display for show rather than anything that could makes us more cohesive.
The more educated people are the more dumb they behave, the more they receive the more they demand. Everyone proclaims "proud to be Australian" yet baulks at doing something for the good of the Nation such as advocating a National Service that'd bring about a healthier mentality !
Someone once said "they're a weird mob" but at times I wonder if that wasn't overly polite !

individual,

Australia is now a lost cause.

I suggest you start brushing up on your Mandarin for when the Chinese take over the country.

And keep in mind, the enemy is already inside the gate.

Ad Man should be banished to Hawaii for the bush fire season and he should remain there while Peter Dutton deals with China.

Ni hao! All belong China now:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9003357/Whitsundays-island-bought-Chinese-developers.html?ito=push-notification&ci=56039&si=21568413

Our largest trading trading partner is now our biggest enemy.

Wow .............. Can it get any better?

Misop,

I can't work out whether or not you're an idiot, a Chinese agent or simply a racist troll.

Nope, still can't work it out.

Joe

Pseudo-Mouth,

You're not smart enough that's why.

But at least I know that you are in the pro-China camp. You said it yourself, saving me the time to work it out.

Anyway, I told you this problem with China would happen. And I think I know where this conflict will lead.

You said nothing like this would ever happen. So who's the dick now?

Misop,

You really do need to learn to read properly.

Nope, too late :(

There ARE some effective TAFE programs that you could try.

Joe

Sweet FA if Biden actually gets in.

If he does, perhaps we should invite the Chinese in, before the Democrats throw us under s bus. I wouldn't expect much, with the way they are treating Hong Kong, but it would probably be a less painful, if lingering death.

Pseudo-Mouth,

The tide has turned and you are now trying to disassociate yourself from the pro-China camp.

Why don't you do what some others in the pro-China camp like Foxy and david f are doing: just stop participating on Forum so that you don't draw attention to yourself.

I told you that getting tied up with the Chinese was problematic and that all this stuff we are now seeing was going to happen.

But you and the pro-China camp wanted to push for bringing in millions of cashed up Chinese regardless of the risks associated with dealing with China.

You and your lot have stuffed up and put all of us in jeopardy.

Pseudo-Mouth,

Here's one of your Chinese mates, the guy behind the outrageous image tweeted by China this week, Fu Yu (full title Mr. Fu C.K. Yu).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9006911/Shocking-new-Chinese-cartoon-takes-aim-Australia-Afghan-allegations.html?ito=push-notification&ci=56429&si=21568413

How are we all going with the new China-style surveillance now required to enter shops? Using the app are we? Writing our actual names and phone numbers down on paper if we haven't got a smartphone, or are smart enough to deny that we have a smartphone? Paying for everything with a credit card whose details can be obtained by the politburo? Waiting for the politicised police to march you off to stand in a line, in the sun, to be tested when there is nothing wrong with you? Jabbering how grateful you are to Ad Man and his thugs for saving you?

Mr. Opinion,

The people you described as laying low, plus Joe, are undoubtedly convinced that it was then CIA or disgruntled Trump supporters who posted the insult to Australia, not their wonderful Chinese friends.

Just saw a news item where Taiwan is asking Soot to help defend it against an invasion by China.

Talk about Soot getting himself caught between the devil and deep blue sea!

Serves him right. He tried to play China off against the US and is now getting his just deserts.

One area where there seems to be no hope is bushfires.

The Volunteer Fire Fighting Association says that, despite all the enquiries and yapping since the last bushfire season and before, we have learned very little (nothing really), still blaming CLIMATE CHANGE and doing nothing about actually managing the permanent occurrence of fires.

22 million hectares of fire-prone land in NSW alone, and not even 1% of that is being managed. Parks and gardens in our political centre, Canberra, are still loaded with inflammable material.

The relevant document on bushfire control has not been upgraded for 14 years. As usual, the problem lies with Green tape.

What proportion of foreign investment in Australia is Chinese ?

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/how-much-of-australia-does-china-own/news-story/a0a710be9cbd78923c7500c147f4e764

2 %, with another 3.7 % from Hong Kong firms. And possibly declining.

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

Is this another of your pro-China propaganda?

If that's the case they won't miss relinquishing ownership of it and handing back to Australia, their new arch enemy.

Foul-Mouth,

I saw Frydenberg say on TV yesterday that the Chinese have come here in huge numbers (his words).

I wonder if that's a hint that the Commonwealth might be looking at cancelling visas and sending the parasites back home.

Mr. Opinion,

It's highly unlikely that " the Commonwealth might be looking at cancelling visas and sending the parasites back home"; huge numbers are all the go with this crowd - huge deficits and debt, huge unemployment numbers, huge numbers of immigrants (the less they look like us the better).

We'll all be ruined, says Ttbn, before the year is out ......

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

Here's an article saying how China owns in Australia:

http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/how-much-of-australia-does-china-own/news-story/a0a710be9cbd78923c7500c147f4e764

Does it look like 5.7% Chinese ownership?

ANY Chinese ownership of ANYTHING in Australia is too much. We are still waiting for the 'promised' legislation that will see curbs put on Chinese ownership of Australia. The same rules should apply to all foreign countries, but China is particularly
EVIL. We also need to start acting as one country, not a collection of tin pot dictatorships the states have become.

Misop,

Yes, half-wit, that's the article that I cited. Thank you for corroborating its validity.

Joe

Another thing that must stop this utter bullshite about how 'wonderful' ordinary Chinese people in Australia are, and how much they have 'contributed' to the country. They are neither wonderful nor big contributors to anything but themselves and baby formula supplying to China and the toilet paper manufacturers.

The rabbits who talk such guff and call some of us 'racists' are themselves preaching racial stereotyping.

The old one about Chinese being here since the goldrush days is also crap. All sorts of people came here then, and it was a different world and certainly a very different China.

Foul-Mouth,

My God you have a foul mouth.

That's what gives you away as not being a scholar.

I'm curious about your background. You're definitely no Arts graduate but it's obvious you have read a lot on the Arts things like history, anthropology, philosophy, archaeology, sociology, etc.

I suppose if being a wannabe Arts graduate makes you happy then that's the main thing.

The Prime Minister and the Foreign Affairs Minister
gave some very meaningful speeches the other day
in front of Parliament House in Canberra, answering
all sorts of questions about Australia's future,
including its relationship with China. One thing
was made clear was the fact that Australia would
look to its interests first and foremost and that
we were not going to be dictated to by anybody. That
our relationship with China is to our mutual benefit,
and that diplomatic relationships were going to be
encouraged. But Australia was not going to be dictated
to by anybody.

At the same time - the contributions of Australian
Chinese to this country was also acknowledged. After
all Australia is a nation of immigrants - history speaks
for itself despite the vehement denials of the ignorant and
the one-eyed.

Foxy,

You cannot negotiate with the Chinese.

It's all ONE WAY - THEIR WAY.

The warning signs are there that the Chinese want to gobble up as much territory as they can get their hands on and the reason they are being aggressive towards Australia is that they do not want anyone interfering in their territorial expansion especially into the indo-Pacific region, which is exactly what Australia has been doing of late.

Did you see the movie The Darkest Hour when Churchill (Gary Oldman) leaned across the table and yelled to Chamberlain "You can't talk to a tiger when you have your head in it's mouth!"

I think China is deliberately picking a fight with Australia to give it a reason to invade us. The invasion would be swift and a push-over, one week from start to finish. With the purpose of sending a message to the US, Japan, India, South Korea and Taiwan not to stand in the way of Chinese imperialist expansion.

Plus, conquering Australia will provide an opportunity to transmigrate hundreds of millions of its Chinese to Australia and provide a source of natural resources needed for continued expansion.

I suppose being in the pro-China camp you see this as something good.

"... while free trade agreements are all very well and good, they’re never free of danger with countries that are not free." (Allan RM Jones, chief of staff and advisor in the Howard Government).

And the Chinese Communist Party envisions itself atop a new hierarchical global order in which the world acquiesces to China’s worldview, and China's economic growth has been translated into military power posing a direct threat to us. Australian iron ore is making a powerful blue-water PLA navy. China’s mercantilism weakens its trading partners’ economies and social fabric through cheap capital, energy and labour, much of it illegitimate — for example, hidden and undeclared subsidies, stealing or forcing intellectual property transfers, or even via massive smuggling and market manipulation. China robs companies of their intellectual property, replicates the technology, and then replaces them in the market. Whether it’s barley, coal or wine, China doesn’t hesitate to use its newfound economic power to bully Australia, with the evidence suggesting Australia’s overweighted China export market has allowed its national security to be compromised.

"China has become (and) will remain an economic and strategic threat so long as it remains a one-party totalitarian state".

ttbn,

You forgot to mention that the enemy is already inside the gate.

Misopinionated,

Are you assuming that the 2 % of the Australian population who are of mainland Chinese origin, are all pro-authoritarian-state ? And that that 2 % will somehow take over all of Australia ? That we should all give up now ?

In Norway after the War, I believe, they shot Quisling, the pro-Nazi prime minister who opened the doors to Germany. Don't be so quick, you and Ttbn, to write Australians off, including Chinese-Australians.

Joe

Foul-Mouth,

There you go trying to put words in my mouth again in an attempt to win an argument.

If I had my way I would cancel the visas of all non-Australian Chinese (or Chinese non-Australians if you prefer) and send them packing.

Because when things turn really sour and get out of hand who is going to look after them?

Alexander Downer, steeped in diplomacy and politics, says that is up to China to repair the relationship with Australia; they declared the trade war on us. It's been a "very long time" since any foreign affairs spokesperson has treated another country like the Chinese variety had treated Australia.

ttbn,

This spat has nothing to do with trade but everything to do with geopolitics especially the containment of Chinese expansionism.

The Forum's pro-China camp like Foul-Mouth, Foxy, david f, et al don't want us to see China sending huge numbers of Chinese settlers to Australia as part of its expansionist objective but rather to see it as one big Kumbaya-fest where we all pretend to be Aussies.

Sorry, Mr. O. I thought that they did want to see lots of Chinese migrants coming here. They seem to like immigrants better than they like Australians.

Outside Australia's indigenous people, we are all
immigrants or descendants of immigrants - some
earlier than others - but all with an experience
of immigration during the foundation of modern Australia.
Anyone who denies that denies the history of this
country and what it truly means to be Australian.
These devisive tactics and stereotyping - go against
Australian values of loyalty, democracy, tolerance,
the rule of law.
To which Australians subscribe.

Foxy,

No one is questioning the place of Chinese Australians. That is your supposition.

What we need to seriously question is the place of the huge number of non-Australian Chinese in Australia who are here to exploit the country to the advantage of their own nation-state, especially now that there is a conflict between the two governments over Australia's interference in China's predatory expansion and imperialist ambitions in east Asia and the Indo-Pacific region.

I think that China is militarising the nation-state in a manner that is very similar to the path Japan took in the lead up to WW2.

I think a time will come when the CCP will lose control over the militarists who are on the rise and China will revert to war to expand its Communist empire.

Australia needs to be alert to China's military build-up and one thing it can do is to rid itself of large numbers of Chinese nationalists living and operating in Australia.

Misop,

The CCP ARE the militarists. The people are not necessarily, or even likely.

And the CCP is not necessarily a communist party, just because it calls itself that: it's more like a vast Mafia-type political machine which has latched onto a bankrupt set of theories which some poor dumb-arses still have hopes for.

So you may need to clarify your assertion that " .... the huge number of non-Australian Chinese in Australia who are here to exploit the country to the advantage of their own nation-state .... "

2 % of the total Australian population, a minority of whom speak the Beijing dialect as their first language, and pro-CCP people are probably a tiny fraction of that ? There are probably more pro-CCP NON-Chinese people in Australia than Chinese.

Your reference to Japanese in the US at the time of the Pearl Harbour attack reminded me that very few, if any, Japanese-Americans ever committed acts of espionage or other crimes against the US: in fact, Japanese-Americans formed an army battalion which fought with distinction against the Italian fascists and Nazis at Monte Cassino and elsewhere in Italy during WW II.

So you may have to make an effort to differentiate your assertions from straight-out racist attacks on a small minority of our fellow Australians, if there IS any difference between your view and racism.

Joe

No Australians whose ancestors arrived here in the 18th and 19th Centuries occupy their minds with this 'we are all migrants' bulldust, any more than Brits arriving after 1066 do.

Both sides of my family have been here for over 200 years, and none ever gives a thought to this shite about being migrants. The only people who seem to want to talk and think such rot are the Johnny-come-latelies after WW2. Many of them seem never to be able to leave the past behind them, which is probably why they show disloyalty to Australian by word if not by deed.

Comparing people who arrived here from the 1950's, and who are still arriving here, with the mainly Anglo/Saxon/Celtic (and yes, a few Chinese) settlers who did the hard yards is an insult.

Foul-Mouth,

Your discourse is affected by your pro-China bias.

Your 2% non-Australian Chinese currently in Australia is half a million people who owe allegiance to China not Australia and would act in the interest of China not Australia.

I say in the current climate of belligerence they should go because they represent an internal security threat but you say they should stay because I suppose you are a Maoist, which you have admitted to being.

Mr. Opinion,

It's a waste of time arguing with Looselips and Number 1405.

US intelligence has revealed that China is conducting tests on PLA soldiers hoping to give them “biographically enhanced capabilities”. They are looking to create ‘super soldiers’, using a gene-editing tool called CRISPIR (clusters of regularly interspaced short palindromic repeats), which Western scientists consider unethical. That is, it is unethical to manipulate genes to boost the performance of healthy people. No problems for the CCP, though.

Ttbn,

Although I tend to discount conspiracy theories, this one sound quite plausible. Wasn't there also some discussion years ago about the Chinese trying to insert gorilla or chimpanzee genes into humans to enhance their powers ? Maybe they could be experimenting on Uighurs or Tibetans right now ?

Joe

ttbn,

I have never been in disagreement with Paul1405.

Now Foul-Mouth on the other hand is a different kettle of fish.

Foul-Mouth asks "Wasn't there also some discussion years ago about the Chinese trying to insert gorilla or chimpanzee genes into humans to enhance their powers?"

If true then Foul-Mouth is what they came up with.

Mr Opinion,

You are indeed intelligent. And, if I may say so, far too smart to be arguing with the likes of ttbn.

Mr O,

Can we agree President Xi cuts a fine figure in his $99 Hong Kong readymade suit. Gets em' knocked up, made to measure, in less than 24 hours. If the tailor don't do a good job, well there's always room for a bit of re-education somewhere in the Gobi Desert. Now that's Chinese efficiency. Did you catch that bloke in Shanghai, made himself a millionaire knocking out the big ride on toys, there were pink ones, and yellow ones, not to mention the green ones, not for kids, for Chinese adults with a bit of cash, WOW!

Paul1405,

Nothing but the best for Xi.

It's all about image, especially when he is on the big screen telling the PLA - who have spent all day marching around the square - to prepare for war.

I can't wait until Xi is crowned Emperor of China and starts walking around in red and yellow silk gowns and starts telling the PLA really unexpected things like "Prepare for war!"

Mr O,

"red and yellow silk gowns" Emperor Xi wants to known if he can pick them up in Hong Kong, made to measure in 24 hours for $99? Can't keep a good despot down, just ask Donald!

p/s Xi hopes the colour wont clash with his eyes, one red, one yellow!

pps That bloke up in North Korea, whose his tailor? Needs the firing squad, no style what so ever! Not to mention his Barber! A good despot always has style, look at The Donald.

Paul1405,

I have a feeling that Foul-Mouth and Foxy have put their heads together and are knitting Xi a pair of red and yellow tiger-style woolen onesies for Xmas.

Some people have all the luck!

At last the truth comes out:

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/china-claims-coronavirus-may-have-started-in-australia/ar-BB1bGzKd

This is just another reason for putting Mr Opinion's 10 point plan for placating the Chinese into action.

Ni hao! Chop, chop! Get to it!

Ad Man has now been accused of "craven capitulation" for intimating that the plan for using Kyoto credits to meet our Paris climate target will be dropped. He is reminded that the Coalition was re-elected because of the Opposition's ridiculous climate change policies (many saw that election as a referendum on climate change) and that the Paris agreement would remain minimal in accordance with our very low emissions under a Coalition government.

Ad Man is destroying our industrial competitiveness. He is also starting to "flirt" with the Great Reset.

Some wetter types are saying that Ad Man's problems/apparent stupidity are due to poor advice; but he is the PM, and the buck stops with him.

China now blaming Australia for giving THEM the China virus. It came in Australian imported meat, they say! China is fast becoming a laughing stock.

ttbn,

It's time to put Mr Opinion's 10 point plan for placating the Chinese into action.

Especially No.10 where Soot and the boys have to crawl around naked on their hands and knees pleading for forgiveness from Emperor Xi.

China's ban on our coal is going to cost the juvenile idiots $15 billion a year because their new sources, including Canada, charge much more than we do

ttbn,

Don't worry, it'll be alright because Simple Simon Birmingham is going to get a court order to make China comply with spirit of the China-Australia Trade Agreement.

Yes, they don't call him Simple Simon for nothing!

He's simple alright. The WTO will have as much influence over China as that other global organisation did when it told them that they weren't allowed to build islands in the South China Sea.