Paul,

There are no second prizes.

And your accusation of mendacity from you is laughable as just about every post of yours contains an outright lie or half truths yet you have yet in 10 years to find one from me.

Shonkyminister, you did say years ago that an arrest was imminent (words to that effect) in the 'Beat Up' Bolt case fiasco. That was based on your unswerving belief in the truthfulness of one A Bolt, plus the fact A Bolt had irrefutable "evidence" of the wrong doer on camera! You were of the mind that the coppers would make an imminent arrest, and it would prove to be a scumbag lefty, then you could crow like Foghorn Leghorn from the roof top about the evil lefties. You were so confident of that you jumped in early claiming all to be so. I on the other hand questioned the authenticity of the whole thing, to good to be true, believing it was possibly a set up by you know who. Well no arrest ever took place, and YOU then retreated to a position where you claimed you never said an arrest was at hand at all, yes you did.

Can you substantiate any lie on the forum by my good self? Put up or shut up!

Anyway, I don't value any endorsement from you as to what you believe or don't believe in what I say. BTW, all that self praise of yours. As they say self praise is no praise at all.

Paul, that is right.

I remember in building industry, site managers, who often hated unions, always conceded that their high pay rate was very much due to a high base rate for labourers and tradies.

Chris,

I am all in favour of a living wage as a minimum. However, as this is given to the least skilled who are in the most danger of losing their jobs, one has to balance the welfare of the lowest paid in employment vs those unemployed because their wages are too high.

In good times, one can easily justify above-inflation increases as demand outstrips supply, but when the economy stumbles these guys will be the first retrenched and there is a need for a wage freeze. The covid Dan crisis would be a good example where there are now high wages and unemployment.

The other side of this is where unions have over the years managed to lever up the wages to levels vastly above normal levels. These companies invariably go bankrupt or restructure out these employees.

The private shipping fleets have largely disappeared due to the unions pushing up wages to the point where it was cheaper to ship products from WA to Thailand and back to NSW on different ships than using local ships on a direct trip.

yes, same in building industry.

if I was still a builders labourer in union, my base hourly rate would be over $46.

But, from what I have heard, many builders are now bypassing union members with labour hire.

yes, there has to be a balance with the context of the day taken into account.

I know in Sweden there is no official minimum wage, but they seem to have greater cooperation between owners and workers.

Unfortunately Chris we grew up with the British industrial model of them and us, based on class. Bloody mindness on both sides was a feature of IR in the "good old days". The system was designed to be an adversarial contest, with no other option, other than conflict available to the worker or the employer. Industrial muscles was an important weapon for the worker and the employer as well, employers had their own unions as well, in the form of employer organisations, which intervened in major disputes all the time. Employers and some unions seen compromise through negotiation as a sign of weakness on their part. Industrial relations was scripted, and both sides had to follow the set scrip without deviation.

Many large employers who could meet the demands of workers were often under pressure from employer organisations not to give in as it would set an unreasonable industrial president which smaller employers opposed.

One of the hardest fought campaigns by the union movement which generally resulted in defeat for the unions was the 35 hour push. It was won by only a few sections of industry, but an hours compromise was eventually agreed in the form of a universal 38 hour week.