There has been much praise for the Morrison government, and its recession busting 'Jobkeeper' program, realistically how successful has this very costly program been. On average 18 businesses a day are being investigated for alleged exploitation of employees under the scheme. With many workers fearful of the consequences should they complain, that number could well be the tip of the iceberg. The main allegations centre around employers not passing on the full amount paid by the taxpayer. Up until July Fair Work had resolved over 400 complaints, and recovered over $58,000 in unpaid monies for workers. Hundreds more complains are yet to be resolved, despite illegal activity by such a large number of employees not a single prosecution has been forthcoming.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2020/07/20/jobkeeper-rort-employer/

Paul1405,
So, because some who call themselves Australians are ripping off the system, it's Morrison's fault ?
Had he implemented a tougher system you'd have been the very first to bleat unfairness !
How about accusing those Labor voting Public Servants who are entrusted with running that system but let this happen ?
They're the 'unfair' ones in this ! Bleat about them !

wasn't long back that both marxist abc and universities were caught out underpaying their staff. Oh well it means the high priestesses could continue to get their hundreds of thousands a year to spew out blm's and racial politics dogma. None so blind. To think they are all still on the payroll. But Paul will continue to demonise any business contributing something positive to this country.

Let's not forget exploitation BY the workers who are refusing to go back to work because they prefer doing nothing on Jobkeeper.

Hi Paul1405,

You get extremes on both sides.

Some people are doing their bit to try to mitigate the final cost of COVID, going without help that is offered to them and by following restrictions to prevent the spread of COVID while others are doing their best to exploit the situation for any financial gain they can and do not care if they act in a manner than places others at an increased risk of catching or spreading COVID.

I find it interesting that the moment there is a problem the left whinge idiots' answer is to regulate it to the hilt.

If the greens were in government the payments would be so heavily regulated that most employers would have found it easier and cheaper simply to shut up shop and retrench their workforce than take the payments, and those that did qualify would have been able to pay their workers a pittance in 2022.

It is cheaper and better to deal with the cheats than punish everyone just in case.

In typical fashion, the far right ratbag tries to deflect to those not in government; "If the greens were in government...." As we know the Greens are not in government, so anything SM says regarding the Greens is just fantasy.

A real example of rip off; Working full time in logistics, along comes 'Jobkeeper', the employer comes up with a brilliant idea. The employee can work 3 days a week in the office, and on the quite do 2 days working from home on her computer, which is possible. The catch is the employer only pays through 'Jobkeeper' which is equal to 3 days pay for the employee, the 2 days at home are to be unpaid. When its announced 'Jobkeeper' will be cut by $300/week, the employer said "You can work 2 days in the office and 3 days at home." Employee got another full time job at her second interview.

Dominoes Pizza boosted yearly profits by $4 million whilst collecting $3.5 million from 'Jobkeeper'. Other companies collecting 'Jobkeeper' are still paying fat dividends to share holders, and big bonuses to executives.

As usual, the far left scumbag has given a theoretical example of an unnamed employer at an unnamed company asking an unnamed employee to do work for which she is not paid for and the said employee obliges when she could refuse and then finds another job.

Firstly, ripping employees off has happened before (clean event sanctioned by Bill Shorten and DiNatale ripping off his au pair) and needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis and not by making the application so onerous that said lady would have been unemployed.

Dominoes Pizza boosted yearly profits by $4 million whilst collecting $3.5 million from 'Jobkeeper'.
If that statement is true then who is the Nr1 in line for sorting this out ? Which department & who is the head of it ?

Judging by the replies, the Job keeper reports must be true !

So, anyone ? Who's the one to contact to look into this claim ?

With the Morrison recession picking up steam economists are warning that Australia will suffer a $31.3 billion hit over 2 years to the economy if as planned the present Jobseeker rate is cut back to the old Newstart level of $40/day for a single person.

Then there are the whinging fruit and vegetable growers bleating about where is their supply of slave labour in the form of backpackers to pick their crap. The shortage of workers has exposed the gross exploration of vulnerable young people by a minority of rip-offs growers and agents.

Shonkyminister, real case, real people, but you don't give a toss about others as long as your snout is in the trough getting all the benefits you enjoy complements of the struggle of fair-dinkum card carrying members of trade unions. What do they call something that sucks of a host without contributing anything for the benefit of that host? A PARASITE.

Paul,

I have never been in a position where a union had any influence over what I earned and was in a senior position by 27. I haven't taken a cent in welfare and have paid more in taxes than a score of union bludgers and real parasites who wouldn't know real work if it bit them on the arse.

The unions work for losers and suck the blood of the real working man.

Shadow, you fail to recognise, or don't want to recognise, the struggles of the past by workers, trade unionists, to win the pay and conditions most people such as yourself enjoy today. You seem to think that some ultra benevolent employer bestowed all those goodies on to you wonders and super valuable employee from the kindness of his heart. You are simply wrong.

BTW, I don't always get overly into personal details on this public forum, believe what you like, but that case 5 days work for 3 days pay, that was my stepdaughter. She didn't tell us her pay was cut to $1500/fortnight until she said she had a job interview, and I asked why she was leaving her old job. She is very competent in the work she does, and at first there was a downturn in shipping because of covid, but lately things in Queensland have picked up. Then when he boss (a family owned business) said; They're cutting Jobkeeper and it looks like you'll be on 2 days a week, enough was enough for her. Her first job interview was offering $60k, what she ha been on at her old job, but they wanted her to also do "call-ins" only 10 minutes from home, but with 2 teenage children at school she was not keen, and asked for $70k, which they didn't want to pay. At her second job interview she got the job, and its also close to home, about 10 minutes drive, and she's happy with the pay and conditions. My stepdaughter is a very hard worker, in her old job she would often log in at home and do unpaid work online.

another good topic.

given Aust's looming economic difficulties in a world of many free trade deals, it remains to be seen what happens to the wages of people.

Paul,

You still don't get it. At the level I work, no union has ever had influence. I develop systems and run projects that earn my employers $ms more than they would have expected if they hired someone less competent and as a result often get bonuses greater than many peoples' salary.

I haven't had to apply for a job for decades because I get head hunted and the last time put my name out on Seek when a contract was coming to an end, I was offered a job within 2 hours.

I am presently halfway through a 4 yr overseas contract to help turn a company around and they have started posting profits of $20m p.a.

I'm smart and work hard, and I owe my success to no one and especially no dumb arse union thugs.

Paul,

If you're telling the truth, then I wish your stepdaughter well, however, given your mendacious history I view it with some scepticism.

I have a friend in Melbourne who is the business manager for a company that is essentially shut down due to Covid Dan and is now working on Jobkeeper for 2 days a week to keep the business alive and thanks to Dipsht Dan is in no position to find a new job.

Your stepdaughter should thank her lucky stars that she isn't working in Danistan.

shadowminister,

I think some, like you, will always make it.

But what r your views of the wages of the low-skilled? Should we make sure they are reasonable, as set by FWC and efforts of some unions, or should we scale them down say like the USA?

Chris, even so, skilled pay rates are also a function of general pay rates. My family in Fiji where minimum wages have stagnated at less than $2.50F/hr for years. Only the most skilled can command $10F/hr. Until 2016 anti-union decrees forbid unions from seeking wage increases, which was very much driven by the big resort operators. The gap between low and high incomes is not because through some magic high income earners receive more dollars, its the fact low income earners receive less dollars. I bet when 3 weeks holiday was the norm, Shadow would have been on the same 3 weeks. When unions won 4 weeks annual leave and 17.5% loading Shadow then received that benefit.

Back in the day, I worked for a large industrial corporation, where union membership was strong, even draughtsmen and engineers were union members. The unions through the Works Committee negotiated a very good retrenchment deal, second only to the oil industry. When redundancies came, the union members were protected by the retrenchment agreement, not so the office staff. When news got out that the office staff would only be paid minimum entitlements, wow, the mostly anti union office types suddenly wanted to join up and become raving reds with a retrenchment agreement. Sad to say, some were not covered as they had been informed of their termination prior, so got the minimum. In some cases of long service it was many thousands of dollars.

I (shadowminister) haven't had to apply for a job for decades because I get head hunted and the last time put my name out on Seek when a contract was coming to an end, I was offered a job within 2 hours.

I am presently halfway through a 4 yr overseas contract to help turn a company around and they have started posting profits of $20m p.a.

I'm smart and work hard, and I owe my success to no one and especially no dumb arse union thugs.

Given your mendacious history I view it with some scepticism.

Anybody who profiteers from the WuFlu pandemic is a low-life scumbag and should be named and shamed.

Anybody got any examples they would like to tell us about or know of any low-life scumbags they would like to name and shame?

Misopinionated,

Yes, some try to profit from this pandemic in a racist way by blaming all Chinese people, indeed all Asian people, for the sins of the Chinese totalitarian regime.

So what's your name ?

Joe Foulmouth

Dear shadyminister,

I think you are smart given that you have 3 vocational degrees BSc(Eng) BCom MBA.

It's a shame you never did an Arts degree so that you could claim to be educated in addition to being smart.

I guess when you are making lots of money using your vocational training you just don't have any time or need to be seen as educated as well as smart.

Don't worry there are always people like me to fill the ranks of the educated.

FOULmouth,

It's Mr Opinion spelled backwards.

I thought you would have worked it out by now.

I take it you don't believe the WuFlu virus originated in China. You and Andrew Forrest should get together and compare notes. Obviously you have friends in the same places.

Paul,

There are no second prizes.

And your accusation of mendacity from you is laughable as just about every post of yours contains an outright lie or half truths yet you have yet in 10 years to find one from me.

Shonkyminister, you did say years ago that an arrest was imminent (words to that effect) in the 'Beat Up' Bolt case fiasco. That was based on your unswerving belief in the truthfulness of one A Bolt, plus the fact A Bolt had irrefutable "evidence" of the wrong doer on camera! You were of the mind that the coppers would make an imminent arrest, and it would prove to be a scumbag lefty, then you could crow like Foghorn Leghorn from the roof top about the evil lefties. You were so confident of that you jumped in early claiming all to be so. I on the other hand questioned the authenticity of the whole thing, to good to be true, believing it was possibly a set up by you know who. Well no arrest ever took place, and YOU then retreated to a position where you claimed you never said an arrest was at hand at all, yes you did.

Can you substantiate any lie on the forum by my good self? Put up or shut up!

Anyway, I don't value any endorsement from you as to what you believe or don't believe in what I say. BTW, all that self praise of yours. As they say self praise is no praise at all.

Paul, that is right.

I remember in building industry, site managers, who often hated unions, always conceded that their high pay rate was very much due to a high base rate for labourers and tradies.

Chris,

I am all in favour of a living wage as a minimum. However, as this is given to the least skilled who are in the most danger of losing their jobs, one has to balance the welfare of the lowest paid in employment vs those unemployed because their wages are too high.

In good times, one can easily justify above-inflation increases as demand outstrips supply, but when the economy stumbles these guys will be the first retrenched and there is a need for a wage freeze. The covid Dan crisis would be a good example where there are now high wages and unemployment.

The other side of this is where unions have over the years managed to lever up the wages to levels vastly above normal levels. These companies invariably go bankrupt or restructure out these employees.

The private shipping fleets have largely disappeared due to the unions pushing up wages to the point where it was cheaper to ship products from WA to Thailand and back to NSW on different ships than using local ships on a direct trip.

yes, same in building industry.

if I was still a builders labourer in union, my base hourly rate would be over $46.

But, from what I have heard, many builders are now bypassing union members with labour hire.

yes, there has to be a balance with the context of the day taken into account.

I know in Sweden there is no official minimum wage, but they seem to have greater cooperation between owners and workers.

Unfortunately Chris we grew up with the British industrial model of them and us, based on class. Bloody mindness on both sides was a feature of IR in the "good old days". The system was designed to be an adversarial contest, with no other option, other than conflict available to the worker or the employer. Industrial muscles was an important weapon for the worker and the employer as well, employers had their own unions as well, in the form of employer organisations, which intervened in major disputes all the time. Employers and some unions seen compromise through negotiation as a sign of weakness on their part. Industrial relations was scripted, and both sides had to follow the set scrip without deviation.

Many large employers who could meet the demands of workers were often under pressure from employer organisations not to give in as it would set an unreasonable industrial president which smaller employers opposed.

One of the hardest fought campaigns by the union movement which generally resulted in defeat for the unions was the 35 hour push. It was won by only a few sections of industry, but an hours compromise was eventually agreed in the form of a universal 38 hour week.

The minimum wage could be made quite manageable & economically beneficial to Govt if the higher salaries & associated benefits were to be brought back a few percent & either a Flat Tax or a transaction Tax introduced.
But, I fear that economic & financial experts are too frightened of being made to perform to give this alternative a go & prove it workable !

Paul,

Once again you lie blatantly as I never claimed that an arrest was imminent and I have pointed out too many times to count when you have lied to the point where nothing you say is believable without scrutiny.

For example, earlier in this thread you said "Then there are the whinging fruit and vegetable growers bleating about where is their supply of slave labour in the form of backpackers to pick their crap. The shortage of workers has exposed the gross exploration of vulnerable young people by a minority of rip-offs growers and agents."

Either you knew you were just talking bollocks to get a rise or you are a moron.

SM, you've got to get your head out of that Murdoch gutter press and read the real news. Claiming I am a liar re; "backpakers and seasonal picking". You are either ignorent of these things, or simply lie to cover up, read the following article and enlighten yourself.

"Backpackers who work as fruit-pickers have topped the list of people complaining about their employment to the Fair Work Ombudsman." ABC News

http://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2016-05-11/backpackers-top-ombudsman-complaint-list/7404956

Shadow, the problem with you is you come across as a social snob, with disdain for those you perceive as unworthy of you, and from the lower orders. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but that is the perception I have of you. That does not mean I dislike you, I enjoy our forum jousts, you are good value, the way you pop in from Snobville and post nonsense I can respond to.

I know how you hate my stories, calling them made up lies, so I'll give you another one.

When the wife and I were down in Tassie a few years back, taking in the sights, it was during the raspberry season, we met up with a few backpacker kids from Europe in a pub, people a social snob would not mix with. We got together and had a couple of beers, asked where they were staying. They were camped in an old car in a nearby park, using the park bbq's for cooking etc, and ducking into the council swimming pool for a wash. They were picking raspberries themselves. They told us of the on farm living conditions, which we did see, an old bus from the 1960's overgrown with weeds, appealing living conditions and if they stayed there it was a 100 bucks a week, so the park was a better option. Nice kids, we all had dinner in the park along with a box, the wife did a boil-up and cooked tatakau bread on the barbie, the kids seemed to like it. And not a council ranger insight, no alcohol or camping allowed.

Paul,

I have disdain for Bullshters and ignoramuses and more so for those like you that can't tell the difference. You made a claim that I lied and when I proved that you were the liar, you try and shoot the messenger because you don't like what he says in spite of not having a shred of evidence that what he wrote is incorrect.

As for the fruit picking industry, as with many others there are charlatans, but instead of sticking to the facts you opt for hyperbole to the point where what you post is pure fiction.

As you have admitted previously you often post to wind up people, but then don't get offended when you are called out for it.

Shadow, where is your reference to the claim that Dan Andrews leadership is under threat? What you posted in "-+-" as proof might be the raving of a lunatic, of course you don't want to provide a link, as it will be as I say. You must stop being deceitful by present far right opinion as if it is fact. The ravings of The Jones Boy, and those of 'Beat Up'Bolt etc might be accepted by a non thinking moron as fact, but to the intelligent among us they are nothing more than the ravings of lunatics. BTW, I see you are now a Trumpet (a mad keen supporter of Dangerous Doctor Donald).

Paul,

Your posts are the ravings of a lunatic.

Any halfwit can use Google to trace the original article quoted and it takes no longer than a few seconds which of course you did as I expected you to.

However, assuming that you are a moron I will give you 2 links:

https://thebfd.co.nz/2020/09/17/dictator-dans-crown-rests-uneasy/

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/economics/coronavirus-labor-unrest-grows-as-daniel-andrews-botches-crisis-management/news-story/b82c9e391913e4da18dd9c2c275c1b0f

Considering that the Australian fact checks its information, it makes you look like the raving lunatic.

Shonkyminister, links to foreign throwaway trash, and paywall protected Murdoch garbage is hardly proof of anything. As I said, put up or shut up. You have no proof of any challenge to Andrews leadership, or number counting in the Victorian ALP, which you tried to present as fact! Its laughable, next thing we know, you'll be providing links to Hitlers 'Mein Kampf'.

Mr O, as one of the most knowledgeable contributors on the Forum, what is it called when a moronic wombat tries to present speculative nonsense from some raving far right commentator in a form that it appears to be fact. I know its deceitful, but does it constitute out and out lying?

Pauliar,

I see now how you maintain your fantasy. All you need to do to be a pedogreen is to deny the facts and refuse to listen to anyone that doesn't agree with you.

There you go again SM, making accusations that as a member of the Greens I am in some way a paedophile. Any reasonable person reading the forum regularly, and your above post, and the word "pedogreen" would draw that conclusion. As I said before the Forum Moderator GY informed me some time back that he has zero tolerance for that accusation directed at others. Since you repeatedly have made that claim I can only assume GY does not read those posts, or he has anther interpretation of what you are implying. Could it also be he has one rule for one, and another rule for the like minded, I don't know.

I've known you on the forum for over 10 years and a couple of times we've been 'sin binned' together. Generally when you are cornered and have no other out, you pull out that old barb of yours " he's a pedogreen". I do accept your insults as all part of our little game, and take no offence.

Paul,

What do you think GY would think of you calling people a moronic wombat? when you clean up your act you might have a leg to stand on.

The Australian as other major media centres fact check their articles before publishing and generally require more than single sources that most left whinge blogs rely on.

To call them deceitful without a shred of evidence means that you are lying.

Shadow, the koala killing NSW Deputy Premier Johnny Barilaro is talking time off suffering from mental illness, we all knew that! Why in these unprecedented times of pandemic is he afforded such a luxury from the Premier? He should have resigned and been done with it. Agree?

Paul,

Unless JB has actually killed a koala you are lying once again.

Shadow, as you well know Bonkers Barrels was one of the Politian's reasonable for the catastrophic bushfires that ravaged NSW last summer. He may as well have taken a gun and shoot koalas out of the trees, because he was part of the Coalition government that so mismanaged the bush that hundreds of poor koalas perished in the fires. Now he wants to chop down the few remaining koala habitats!

Good to see at least one National MP in NSW has a bit of backbone and concern for the environment; "NSW Nationals MP Leslie Williams has quit the party in disgust and will join the Liberals, saying she could not condone the reckless and unreasonable behaviour demonstrated over the past week." Quote SMH.

So, Paul, you admit you lied.

That the inquiry found that the greatest single factor in the ferocity of the fires was the fuel build-up largely due to pedogreen blocking the clearing.

According to your logic, the Koala killers are the pedogreens, which also tags them as the murderers of 1200 illegal immigrants.