Foxy,

My apologies. I jumped the gun thinking that you were citing the same source as Josephus.

Problem now is why do we have two almost contemporaneous sources re similar enquiries but very different findings, especially given they were produced by the same organisation. Something doesn't make sense and I would say a touch of human inference has taken place, particularly with the latter one which to me does not make sense in the light of conflict between Australia and China that was getting wide media coverage.

Hi Foxy,

The absolute appalling carnage man has unleashed on his fellow man is indescribable, unfathomable. The twentieth century was beyond any reason as to why so much horror should have become the norm, but it did, and its history we have to lean from, and future generations have to learn from. Just out of interest my year 9 granddaughter asked me a few weeks back what was "Brexit", she had an assignment to do on it. I must ask her does she know anything about the "Holocaust", I've got the feeling she may know nothing as yet.

As for China, I don't condone the actions of the CCP in any way. Internally their treatment of minorities and dissidents is appealing. The CCP seems to believe the only way it can govern 1.5 billion people effectively is through suppression. A new cold war between China and the United States is most likely. As China becomes more the growing economic power in the world, and the US is in decline I see conflict of some kind as inevitable. For Australia I support a no-aligned position. So far our foray into attempting to pull China into line has been a dismal failure, we have come of second best. I certainly don't want war, although that is more than often the outcome when two sides can't see eye to eye.

As for the ordinary people, Chinese, Australians, Americans, whoever, they have no influence, and want no influence on world events, just want to go about their daily lives unmolested. Ordinary people are the bystanders who without choice get drawn into these monstrous world events, and unfortunately too often pay the ultimate price.

Foxy, your argument that our system is better than theirs does not really cut the mustard.

In the real world, no political system will survive without some degree of soft power, or even hard power at worst. Hard power need not be military conflict, but economic sanctions, even if there is economic consequences.

The West may also abandon international institutions if the CCP is to become the dominant force, winning support from corrupt or poor nations.

This leads to the useful comments of Paul and David. Yes, the answers are difficult, and education that acknowledges the worst of our past is indeed wise.

But the CCP shows no sign of accommodation, brainwashes and rewards its … lickers, persecutes its own and dissenters, threatens Taiwan with its own Chinese destiny, and has no regard for international law and agreements as seen by its behaviour in the South China Sea and Hong Kong.

No, the time has come for a full-scale Cold War to defend liberalism, and I believe humanity.

Australia can endure a temporary decline in its economy, but the importance of politics has to prevail.

As for this debate, I am annoyed at the title because it is intended to inflame rather than discuss the pros and cons of CCP behaviour.
So besides my fellow haters of the CCP, and David and Paul, I again ask where are the points that help us understand the CCP?

If good points defending the CCP or downplaying its real or potential influence do not exist, then our political leaders have no reason to tolerate the CCP in any form. End of story.

And we don’t need the Lowy Institute to tell us the bleeding obvious. Most Australians know the CCP it is a threat to humanity, including your Chinese neighbour.

Dear Chris,

A couple of things need correction.

1) Our way of life is definitely better than that given
under the CCP. We have things like freedom of the press
and certain others freedoms under our system of democracy
that the CCP does not give its citizens. So it does
"cut the mustard" for many who fled totalitarian regimes
and know what they are talking about.

2) My Chinese neighbour was distancing herself from the
CCP - and the point that she was making - was that her
community wanted to be judged on its own merits and not
linked to CCP. You seem to have misunderstand what was
being said.

3) Chinese students will undoubtedly be influenced by what
they see and experience here. That's inevitable. And its
something that we need to not close the doors on. Drop
by drop even mountains can get eroded. So, we can also
erode the thinking and influences of others. I believe
that what we have is far superior to what they have.
And that our way of life - gives us certain freedoms that
theirs does not.

Of course you are welcome to disagree.

A bunch of traitors calling themselves the Chinese-Australia Business Council has told a Chinese audience that "economics overrides security". Dollar-driven Australians are just as dangerous to us as the CCP is.

Foxy, to be frank, I am only concerned with the CCP.

What the Chinese Australians here want with regard to their community profile is their business.

Good luck to them, and i welcome their contribution. Hopefully they open up and also criticise the CCP.

What chinese students do here with their open loyalty to the CCP is a real concern to myself, especially if they then apply for working visas and permanent residency.

ttbn, I would never trust the business community with anything political. They mostly only see the $ signs.

The question of the CCP will be a political question, largely determined by politicians