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The Forum > General Discussion > Where have decent and articulate conservative voices gone?

Where have decent and articulate conservative voices gone?

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Trump's recent attack tweet saying of George Conway "I don稚 know what Kellyanne did to her deranged loser of a husband, Moonface, but it must have been really bad." had me once again having to come to terms with the astounding fact that this was coming from the President of the United States - position that use to garner some respect from many within and without the United States of America.

It got me thinking of the kind of conservative voices and thinkers of whom did garner respect even if people were diametrically opposed to their views.

One such figure in my opinion was William Buckley Jr. His debate against James Balwin at the Cambridge Union was one of the classics.
http://youtu.be/oFeoS41xe7w

The one with Naom Chomsky was another; http://youtu.be/9DvmLMUfGss

His debates with Gore Vidal at the 1968 Democratic Convention were recently made into a movie called Best of Enemies. Though admittedly this did get quite nasty in a genteel manner.
http://youtu.be/9vgT7Wr7Nkc

If there are any others who would lke to avail themselves of an articulate conservative voice given the recent debasement of that notion by the currrent leadership in the US they could od worse than give Bill Buckley a go.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Saturday, 9 May 2020 8:22:38 PM
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Hi SR,

Brilliant insights here:

" ..... 的t痴, 選 don稚 like what this implies; therefore I知 going to deny the evidence, and I知 going to question the models, and I知 going to question the motivations of the people who do it,白 said Naomi Oreskes, a science historian at Harvard. " [From NYT, 10.5.20]

Many of us would have experienced arguments of this kind over the last few weeks. A four-step process:

1. I don't like what your evidence implies;

2. So I'm going to deny that it's valid;

3. And I'll question the data, the models, the surveys that you use;

4. And I'll question your motivation for putting forward that evidence.

One could add a couple of more crackpot steps:

5. There's a conspiracy to put forward this rubbish, and you're part of it; you hate us and are trying to pull us down any way you can;

6. There are better explanations, which involve what you may think are outlandish propositions, and alternative conspiracies, but which make sense to me.

Just saying :)

Cheers,

Joe
Posted by loudmouth2, Sunday, 10 May 2020 11:38:12 AM
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No Australian, including SR, has to 田ome to terms with Donald Trump or anything to do with him. He is America痴 problem or asset, depending on Americans opinions of him. We have our own problems in Australia, and they are not going to disappear because of anything Donald Trump says or does.

Leave foreign politics to specialist columnists, writers and others who actually know what they are talking about. Donald Trump doesn稚 give a damn about what some anonymous Lefty in Australia thinks about him, or anything at all for that matter.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 10 May 2020 12:07:03 PM
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Dear Steele,

William F. Buckley Jr certainly was in a class by himself.
He had style and panache and captivated people right
up to his death in 2008.

When asked once whether he slouched in his chair as
host of the TV program "Firing Line,"because he couldn't
think on his feet. He drawled back:

"It is hard ... to stand up ... under the weight ...
of all that I know."

Classic Buckley!

There's no one quite like him today.

If I think of anyone - I'll let you know.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 10 May 2020 2:45:19 PM
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Dear Steele,

There seems to be a distrust today of all significant
institutions that has seeped over into a distrust of
professionals and intellectuals.

That has implications far beyond whether the conservative
movement can continue to offer relevant and timely
prescriptions for an increasingly complex world.

The US we know is changing. It's demographics are
shifting. Their beliefs are re-forming and evidence
suggests that younger generations have a less favourable
opinion of the conservative views of their parents.

You'd think that this is precisely the time for a new
crop of conservatives to emerge and re-calibrate how
conservatism will respond to an ever-fluctuating
society.

However, I can't see that happening. Either in the US
or here in Australia. People like Milton Friedman, Russel
Kirk, William F. Buckley Jr - are no longer around.
And it seems that there's no on to take their place.
At least not of their calibre.

The US has ended up with a US President - totally unfit for
office. Buckley would be horrified. Where are the conservative
voices today? They're certainly not in the White House.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 10 May 2020 3:56:58 PM
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Dear Foxy,

It is worth listening to this little piece from the Cambridge debate;

http://youtu.be/oFeoS41xe7w?t=2025

的 remember for example when the ex-attorney general Robert Kennedy said that it was conceivable that in 40 years in America that we might have a negro president and that sounded like a very emancipated statement I suppose to white people. They were not in Harlem when this statement was first heard, and did not hear and possibly will never hear, the laughter, the bitterness and the scorn with which this statement was greeted.

It took 44 years. This was America's promise and in some way vindicated Buckley. It is hard to recognise that in the nation's future at the moment but Trump may well have been the inevitable reaction to Obama and after this things will get back on course.
Posted by SteeleRedux, Sunday, 10 May 2020 7:28:22 PM
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