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The Forum > General Discussion > Oath by Members of Parliament

Oath by Members of Parliament

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Dear Is Mise,

I was not aware that the wording of the oath was in the Australian constitution - I mistakenly assumed that it was a matter of simple legislation.

As I read it again, I believe that "according to law" refers to the method and order of succession ("Her heirs and successors according to law"), rather than to any laws governing legislators and/or ordinary citizens.

Perjury, on the other hand, is determined by ordinary law rather than by the constitution, so that could be changed even without a referendum by adding a clause in criminal code such as "unless the oath/affirmation was preceded by a clear announcement by the person who made that oath/affirmation that they do not intend to abide by it".

Still there is the religious aspect against breaking an oath, which no legislation can change, but this can be overcome by making an affirmation instead. Another option is to elect a Jewish representative, who can then be absolved of their oath by the "Kol Nidrei" prayer on the eve of the following day of atonement (Yom-Kippur, around the end of September or beginning of October, so they would still need to keep their oath for the remaining part of the year).

---

Dear Paul,

«please provide evidence that any member of parliament was anti monarchy at the time of swearing»

That should not matter (in other words, it is a red-herring): the oath of allegiance to her majesty has little to do with the monarchy/republic quarrel. A representative who makes this oath is bound by it for the rest of their life, even if their views change, even long after they leave parliament, even if Australia subsequently becomes a republic, even if Australia was submerged by the ocean and no longer existed (assuming they were somehow saved).
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 27 December 2019 12:46:16 PM
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Paul,

Why do you consider it ridiculous to point out that some MsP are perjurers?

You want an example?

Turnbull openly advocated an Australian Republic before he was elected, therefore he could not offer true allegiance to the Queen, but he swore an oath that he did so; therefore he committed perjury.

Is that the sort of person that you want in Parliament?

I guess it is because all of the Greens MsP are in the same boat, they are all liars like Turnbull.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 27 December 2019 12:54:42 PM
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Dear Is Mise,

«Turnbull openly advocated an Australian Republic before he was elected, therefore he could not offer true allegiance to the Queen»

Why is that? Has Her Majesty the Queen ever objected to an Australian republic?

You and I may not like that idea of a republic, but I don't believe that Her Majesty cares either way.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 27 December 2019 1:45:24 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

It appears we may be a little more fawning than most;

“Members of the judiciary (justices of the peace, district judges, circuit judges etc.) swear their allegiance to the queen, and to her heirs and successors; police officers in England and Wales pledge their allegiance to the queen, but not her heirs and successors. Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly and the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) do not swear an oath of allegiance. The PSNI in 2001 replaced the Royal Ulster Constabulary, whose members pledged their allegiance to the queen, but not her heirs and successors. The Scottish police have never pledged allegiance. Members of the Privy Council only swear allegiance to the "Queen's majesty", not to the queen's heirs and successors.”

"Although an oath of allegiance is required of members of the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly, there is no requirement for members of the Northern Ireland Assembly to take an oath of allegiance, or any other oath, nor is there any form of voluntary oath prescribed for those who may wish to swear one. However, members are required to sign the Assembly's roll of membership, designate their identity as "Nationalist", "Unionist" or "Other", and take a Pledge of Office. Ministers can be removed from office if the responsibilities of the pledge are not met."

Wikipedia

Why can't we be like Northern Island I wonder?
Posted by SteeleRedux, Friday, 27 December 2019 5:40:23 PM
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"I guess it is because all of the Greens MsP are in the same boat, they are all liars"

Issy, provide evidence that all Greens MP's are liars. Put up or shut up! On another thread we know who the liar is, don't we.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 27 December 2019 6:06:19 PM
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Paul,

As all Greens MsP advocate a Republic then when they swear allegiance to the Queen they are liars and perjurers.

Steele,

Why can't we be like Northern Island I wonder"

Because we haven't been under a religious dictatorship, police state and had near civil war.

For the Norther Ireland Accord to work the Oath of Allegiance had to be removed.
Posted by Is Mise, Friday, 27 December 2019 7:38:59 PM
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