To Foxy.

You said:

"There are issues that also need to be addressed concerning family, domestic,
sexual violence in Australia. The statistics are staggering."

Start a topic about it. Or about child abuse in general with the degrees of cigarette burns and all.

The way I see it though, is that moving on to domestic family abuse when the topic is homosexuality, is like moving away from a topic of shoplifting because murder is worse. The issues of murder does not justify theft, and starting a topic about theft does not mean that a person condones murder. In the same way actually trying to breach the topic of homosexual problems does not mean I am ok with family violence. It's a worth while topic if you want to address it. Honestly I'd like to hear what people have to say on the matter either on how to better enforce the laws, catch domestic abuse and watch for the signs of abuse, people's experience on the matter, or anything else that is of value in the matter of domestic abuse, or that could help reduce it in our lives.

(continued)

(Continued)

I know homosexuality is a difficult topic to talk about. I've gathered that from the get go. So far both you and SteeleRedux have gone to great lengths to avoid the topic. My fault probably. I moved from homosexuality has no definitive genetic link, to the next logical conclusions. Environmental influences, and the issues placed on homosexuals can be put in our laps, our faults. Surely I could have approached the topic more delicately and avoided how abuse, suicide, and drug dependance exist at a greater rate among homosexual demographics. The topic of homosexuality should be one of acceptance right? With no focus on anything else? That's what we're allowed to talk about isn't it? Sorry but I think the other matters need to be addressed also. How can we say we are caring about homosexual people if we acknowledge that there is a higher rate of emotional issues, suicide, and abuse, but do nothing more then acknowledge this unfortunate figure.

Start a topic on domestic abuse. If many homosexuals were abused as children and that influences their sexuality, then a focus on domestic abuse is worth having a focused look. Start the topic for other reasons too. Because honestly this affects what ... 30% of all women?

To ALTRAV.

You usually have something outside of the usual facts and figures that are pushed around on any issue. With that in mind, what are your thoughts on homosexual culture, or if there is such a thing. There is definitely a homosexual agenda, but doesn't automatically mean anything about a culture of it's own outside of political power plays. In the last year or so I met a guy who's trying to recover from several life issues and decisions in life. He's pointed out something I was not aware of. Homosexuality is very negative environment to be in. He said it is full of narcissism, usually focuses way too much on materialism and sex, as well as that there is an excess amount of illicit drugs and alcohol in the mix. The way he puts it is that homosexuality is a very negative influence to be in and one of his best decisions was to try and be celibate and walk away from it all.

This raised an issue I hadn't heard or considered before. That A). homosexuality had it's own culture, and B). that it is over all a negative and harmful culture for those in it.

Have you come across anything of this sort. The topic of homosexual influence towards other homosexuals? Or basically the culture within homosexuality?

To Loudmouth.

What do you think on the matter of homosexuality being genetic or not? Do you think the study at the start of this topic has merit? Or if it's a mishmash of data that leads to the wrong conclusions?

Honestly I don't know how they can do any better to study the relationships between genes and homosexuality without a survey attached to self identify who is homosexual and who isn't. But I also think questionnaires can be misleading and aren't the most reliable source of information. On the other hand there's a lot of people pulled for this study. Which makes it very good source of information to draw trends from and see correlations. If they can't find any definitive gay gene, Does that debunk a previous study claiming to have found the gay gene? (As well as raise doubt on the genetic influence as a whole?)

Sorry the topic went so far from the origional post. That's my fault for going down the next step in the conversation before really getting into the matter of the study itself.

Dear Loudmouth and NNS,

Settle down young fellas, the debate hasn't shifted at all, it has evolved and matured.

We are now seeking answers as to why this topic exercises the minds of people like NNS when it is obvious from the statistics that there is something very amiss with the avowedly heterosexual cohort and it is causing so much misery and harm to such a huge section of our adolescents.

I had even framed it in a biblical context if that would help;

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
...
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

It is perfectly justifiable to look at what might be regarded as the beast within so many and accept that there is a sizable proportion of the human race who, given certain circumstances, will let the beast grow and escape to do damage.

Statistics say that female children under the same roof with a single parent and a live in partner are 20 times more at risk of sexual and physical abuse from that partner that living with both their biological parents.

Why is that? Obviously proximity plays a role, normal instinctual barriers against being attracted to one's own offspring are no longer at play, and less capacity to see the victim as a complete human being having not watched them grow.

But for 30% of our young girls to have experienced sexual abuse within the safety of their own homes whether be family or be friends of the family seems to indicate a capacity for abuse which exists in every section across the sexual spectrum. To highlight just that of the homosexual community is not facing this very important issue.

This surely should be where this conversation has landed.

Why the resistance to go there?

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Dear Foxy,

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You wrote :

« Researchers have described the human sex drive to the hunger drive … The fact that our sex drive is so flexible is, of course, the reason every society goes to such lengths to regulate it »
.

I believe you’re right in thinking that hunger and sex-drive are the motor, and food and copulating the fuel, that propel humanity towards its destiny.

But, as I indicated in my very first post on this thread (page 4) :

« So far as we human beings are concerned, the role of the State should be limited to the public – not the private – sphere, as per Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights » :

« Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life :

1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others »

This means that consenting adults are free to practise whatever form of sexual relationship they please, in private – and that includes homosexual union :

« Article 8 clearly provides a right to be free of unlawful searches, but the Court has given the protection for "private and family life" that this article provides a broad interpretation, taking for instance that prohibition of private consensual homosexual acts violates this article.

The following court cases deal with the applicability of Article 8 to issues related to LGBT people including the recognition of same-sex marriage, laws prohibiting sodomy, and access to health services for transgender people.

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(Continued …)

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