CJ Morgan said: "From Dresdener's comment, I expect that s/he will defend the right of Muslims to form political "lobby" groups whose purpose is to impose Islamic values on the rest of us - because to do otherwise would be "discriminatory and anti-democratic"."

Muslims have every right to form political lobby groups if they so wish. Although considering the small size of Australia's Muslim community, I suspect they'd have immense trouble attracting any sizeable support. Give it a few generations maybe.

Oh sorry, was this the part where you were meant to point out my alleged hypocrisy? Did I spoil your 'gotcha' moment?

Morgan said.
How can you be too worried about a few Muslims when Howard and Rudd are falling over each other to pander to the Christian lobby?
Taryn Says.
What if the Russains were to invent a religion and told to pray towards Moscow five times a day? Or the Japanese were to pray towards Tokyo?
My point is it wouldnt matter because its not here.
I read these posts a lot but only pst myself if I see something that is being ignored.
Boaz and philo you two need to get yur bible out from your bums and start showing the rest of us as an example the mercury of your God.
You have both totally ignored the fact that Muslim Leaders from their countries are demanding our Australian Animals are slaughtered by Cruel Religious Slaughters dedicated to Allah.
Not only do you have no concern for these Animals but your both too stupid to see that would be a very real begining to turning Australia int an Islamic country.
Morgan Says the Australan Muslims are few. What Morgan does not know or understand is there is no such thing as an Australian Muslim.
If you are a Muslim you are under the same rules, law God as any other Muslim.
You cant make changes. You dont have a choice. You must follow Islam and Allah.
Mr Morgans is not worried about Muslims taking over Australia.
Well good for you. Go back to sleep because I have news for you Mr Morgan.
They have already said they want control of AQIS to our Government.
Thats is a Government department - pretty cheeky!
Six years ago they asked the Australian Government to turn us into a Allah Riutal Slaughter country. The Government rightly said "No".
Now just before an election it seemds they are to get their way.

Not taking over Australia Mr Morgan?
Think again.

OK, I'll bite.

>>Mr Morgans is not worried about Muslims taking over Australia. Well good for you. Go back to sleep because I have news for you Mr Morgan. They have already said they want control of AQIS to our Government. Thats is a Government department - pretty cheeky!<<

Could you please elaborate on this TarynW, as it is the only piece of evidence you put forward that they are "taking over Australia".

Such a big claim needs to be supported. Otherwise it just goes into the basket alongside all the other Chicken Littles.

Dresdener: "Muslims have every right to form political lobby groups if they so wish. Although considering the small size of Australia's Muslim community, I suspect they'd have immense trouble attracting any sizeable support. Give it a few generations maybe."

Glad to see you agree with me. So what's the problem? After a few generations I predict Australian Muslims will be as well integrated into our society as every other ethnic or cultural group that has migrated here in significant numbers. Of course, our culture will continue to change, to the extent that those aspects of Islam that seem so exotic and threatening to the xenophobes will be relatively mundane and commonplace. I also predict that subsequent generations of Australians whose parents and grandparents were Muslim immigrants will become increasingly secular.

TarynW: "Not taking over Australia Mr Morgan?
Think again."

Like Pericles, I'd like to see some actual evidence of this. Mind you, I don't accept that the reported conflict between some Muslims and AQIS or whoever over the fine details of ritual killing of food animals can be generalised to your claim that Muslims are "taking over Australia". That seems to me to be a hysterical, Islamophobic over-reaction to an issue that doesn't really matter all that much to ordinary Australians who don't share your obsessions.

CJ MORGAN
Perhaps I can help you both with that question in a bit more detail than Taryn.

http://www.qmt.org.au/news+article.storyid+214.htm

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=abc+halal+ritual+slaughter+rspca+&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr%3DcountryAU

Most people do have concern for unnessary cruelty to our farm animals so Taryns certainly not extreme.

Now if you would like to know about the meeting with Federal Government it might surprise you to also know it was myself who suggested we met in a "united form' with the Government to discuss accreditations and other issues we have worked on with Muslim Leaders for the past five years.

You can see us all together here.-
http://www.halakindmeats.com/

I would also stress its not just Halal we are talking about but KOSHA.

Morgan Common sense must tell you Rodger Fletcher managers very well to run a good business with overseas purchasers of Halal meat and always pre stunns his animals.

It is our Government that cause this trouble by giving mixed messages. You CAN come to sensible agreements with many of the overseas Muslims if you simply state your case. If not we dont need their money so badly we have to lower Australias Animal Welfare standards.

It is not always possible for Muslim leaders to do this because of the conflict of interest when you consider all muslims are supposed to put Allah before everything.

However it is possible as Rodger Fletcher has demostrated. We are dissapointed the Government do not care enough to try.

We have withdrawn our MOU because to cut an animals throat and let it slowly gasp and bleed to death is unexceptable not only to us but most decent Australians.

As for what was put to AQIS you might be surprised!
You may have to wait until we are ready to disclose more which will happen within a few weeks.
Nobody can stand back and see Australia turned into a third world country performing cruel ritual slaughters without any pre stunning.
Nobody with the slighest amount of common deceny that is.

PALEIF, while I agree that it's unfortunate that some Muslims have apparently reneged on the deal you thought you had with them over pre-stunning animals to be ritually slaughtered, there is a huge difference between that and "Muslims taking over the country".

That kind of hysterical dummy-spit does your cause no favours, and in fact aligns your organisation with the more extreme Islamophobia expressed by some idiots. It also negates any further influence you might have had over the process of halal slaughtering of food animals in Australia.