Well much has changed from the last Trump thread
He has got worse
But unless the American economy gets worse, or until voters take note of how he overlooked a massive growth in that country's debt he seems to be the winner next year
But yes but,is he ok? are his on then of then on again tariffs going to harm America as must as those he targets

Trump haters make me laugh. As bad as they paint him in their minds he is still miles ahead of Democrats and lying liberal media. MAGA.

Trump might be one of the oddest US presidents to hold office but I must give him credit for standing up to China and calling a spade a shovel. I bet the Chinese will be more than happy to see the last of him.

This thread should be renamed 'Whining about Trump, again'. Isn't there someone out there with a new and interesting subject to raise? I've given up, because nobody is interested in what I put up. What's wrong with the rest of you. Do you want the forum to be dominated by two left wing ratbags?

Dear Mr Opinion,

Oh there are other things we could be grateful for Trump over. Him withdrawing from the TPP treaty was a real bonus for Australia. Some of the provisions that were being insisted upon by the Yanks were just over the top and we should be thankful to Trump for that.

I think we can also thank him for effectively neutering any criticism of any future candidate on moral grounds by the religious right. By supporting him they have lost much of their power. Just look at our own dear old runner doing his lapdog routine spouting American slogans on cue.

I personally have gotten quite a bit of enjoyment out of the buffoon as well as seeing the rightwing in this country tying themselves in knots justifying their support of him.

What he has also managed to do is make certain left wing candidates like Warren and Sanders suddenly become viable alternates in the minds of Americans.

The return swing of the pendulum will be significant and far reaching.

Dear SteeleRedux,

I appreciate your comments but what do you think of his stance towards China?

Hi Steele,

What I'm very worried about is that the more Trump cavorts and postures and polarises, the more the dumb-arse Democrats will move away from the centre (as if in tandem with [or half-witted reaction against] Trump) and move further to the 'left'. The centre is a very broad and numerous church.

Surely, as Trump moves more right and crazy, more ground is opened up across the centre ? As he buggers up agricultural trade with China, and helps to jack up prices at Walmart, surely some of those farmers in critical states will move, perhaps ever so slightly, towards the centre ?

Or are we still in some childish, either-or, manichaean, bipolar political scene with both sides not giving a stuff for really winning over people that don't agree with their ridiculous positions, as if they were quite willing - both Trump-types and current Democrat candidates - to go down in a Gotterdammerung of flames, rather than reach out to the centre ?

Surely there are alternatives to dopey extreme Right or dopey extreme [in the American context] 'Left' ?

Cheers,

Joe

Joe,

Are you saying that Trump should stop what he is doing - what he said he would do before the election - just so the Democrats won't go further left? An elected President has to keep the Opposition under control?

Are you so unused to politicians in Australia not doing what they promise to do that you are confused by one who does keep his promises? Hell, the man has turned around the American economy, and he is putting his country first.

Most mainstream Western political leaders, whether of the right or the left, including ours, are garden-variety globalists. They are out to dispense increasing quantities of useless foreign aid to ne’er-do-well states; import unending streams of poorly-skilled, culturally-challenged refugees; free up trade whatever the despair this causes within many of their own communities; and make quixotic quests to save the planet whatever the cost to their own industries, to their old and to their poor.

Trump doesn't do that. What is more, he is standing up to the CCP thugs in China.

I would like to see that useless accidental PM of ours, like the rank amateur and apprentice he is, shadow Trump for a while to see how it is done

The Western world is going down, and the only Western leader trying to do something about it is regularly rubbished by morons who couldn't find their backsides with bother hands.

Hi Ttb,

No, Trump will not stop whatever he is doing, he will only get more idiotic and contradictory. It will be up to the Democrats whether or not they get some sense and move towards the centre, rather than move further to the 'left' and feed Trump.

I don't think the Democrats will actually get any of that commonsense, and Trump will win the next election, regardless of whatever damage he has inflicted on the US economy and society in the meantime.

Joe

Dear ttbn,

It's good to find someone who can see ScuMo for exactly what he is.

ScuMo is only interested in one thing: getting re-elected. He's trying to match the master in that game: John Howard.

Unfortunately for ScuMo he might go down in the history books as the prime minister who lost Australia to the Chinese.

Mr. Opinion,

I think it's ScOMo, after Scott. He could be called Scutt, I suppose; ‘scut’ with one ‘t’ is what a rabbit’s tail is called.

Yes. He smirks about 'quiet Australians', and kids himself that he won the election; but it was Labor that lost the election because of its appalling policies and the totally no-good Shorten. He needs to watch out and start revealing what, if anything, he believes in apart from himself. Albanese is still feeling his way, but he has potential. And he comes over as a much more trustworthy and sincere bloke than Shorten ever was. As a person of the Right, I don’t see a lot of difference between Labor and Liberal. Perhaps the Nationals should start putting candidates up against Liberals in all seats. After they get rid of Joyce, of course.

Do you see anyone in the current parliament who could stand up to China? The Liberals turned their backs on Hastie when he told the truth.

Trump For President.

Dear Is Mise,

You wrote;

“Trump for president.”

I'm sorry mate but we are neither part of the USA nor do we have an official position of president in this country.

You are obviously very enamoured with the man as you are with guns. Might I respectfully submit the easiest way for you to enjoy Trump as your president and to indulge in you fetish would be to move to the US and take up citizenry there.

Dear Mr Opinion,

I am not that bothered with the trade tensions between China and the Trump administration. Both sides see themselves trying to do what is best for their respective countries. There are many countries like Australia, Singapore and South Korea which have positive trade balances with China. Even Germany is pretty well on par.

China is reacting to the tariffs by devaluing the yuan supporting its local industries.

The US interfered with the markets when it banned the export of energy while ago. In doing so controlled the price and allowed a competitive advantage for its manufacturers.

What is quite a delight is seeing all the free marketeers applauding Trump for tariff protection.

Dear ttbn,

It's definitely ScuMo. I wouldn't have it any other way.

ScuMo bought the election, offering $1000 extra tax refund if people switched from Labor to LNP.

Also, someone bankrolled Clive Palmer to run in order to retrieve LNP votes that were headed to Labor. Guess who!

SteeleRedux,

The US-China situation is very similar to what was happening between the US and Japan prior to the Pacific War (WW2): a conflict over competing interests in trade and imperialism in Asia and the Pacific. A war was looming and Japan struck the first blow to give it a military advantage over the US.

I see the same thing happening between the US and China although I don't think China will strike a direct blow at the US. I'm guessing it will make a sudden attack on Australia followed by immediate and enormous build up of troops to SE Asia and the South Pacific.

As far as Australia is concerned the enemy is already inside the gates and I doubt that the US will rush to its aid after it indicated that it would not allow the US to deploy missiles along its northern borders.

This presidency is well on the way to becoming the greatest since Reagan and if it continues it may even eclipse him.

The economy is going gang-busters despite all the 'experts' telling us in 2016 that the reverse would happen.

Manufacturing is returning despite the Obamessiah saying it couldn't be done.

ISIS is kaput in record time even though all the 'experts' said it would take years.

Remember being told that Trump was a foreign policy amateur and might precipitate WW3? Well never mind. Indeed he might become the first president in living memory to not invade another country. Iran is cowed. We are closer to peace in Korea than we have been for 70 years. China is jittery and now hoping that they can overthrow Trump and get back to the compliant Democrat leadership. The trade war is going bad for them and the people are restive. Their economy shows signs of unravelling.

Russian aggression is checked. Ukraine safer than it has been for a decade.

I could go on with all the MAGA good news but I've probably already given enough people heart palpitations for today.

The problem for many people is that they continue to put their faith in the 'experts' - the same people who've been getting everything from foreign policy to the economy wrong for a generation and who've been sidelined by Trump and his juggernaut are unhappy, want their power back and mislead in that aim.

Any talk about Trump highlights the entrenched swamps of the public service bureaucrats. They obviously see their very bandwagons' wheels' getting wobblier by the day !
Like Trump, hate him, it doesn't really matter because it's about the swamps, not him !

Well I started this thread because the man frightens me
My words are my true thoughts not just stirring
Yes, American Democrats are moving to the left[ British Labour too]
That and too many candidates not enough [if any] good ones is the reason Trump may be returned
CHINA Mr O think about your words world trade stands to be rocked maybe destroyed by Trumps war on reality
World trade matters
Once the EU hand hundreds of sheds over stocked with EU food products because the subsidized growers with silly prices
The USA paid farmers to? not grow food even corn!
Yes we see Trump followers here,take the same mindless path as their idol, refusing to see he is by far the maddest [in a big field] world leader
Do not get me wrong sanity may yet see Trump defeated or gone, he remains ONLY because the Republicans stacked the deck with tea party's and Trump like people

http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/he-can-wreak-havoc-trump-markets-are-way-weirder-for-wall-street-investors-than-the-gfc-20190827-p52l10.html
I can only hope Trump supporters will read this link
As his threat to world trade deepens every one should see him from other than a Fox Sky news point of view[truth that is]

'I can only hope Trump supporters will read this link'

you do realise Belly that none of us here on olo gets to vote in the American election. So rest easy.

I'm amazed that anonymous nobodies can't sense how pathetic they look when they cricticise the leader of the free world, a man not only successful in public life, but spectacularly so in his private life, while all they do is sit in their underpants and singlet in front of a computer, rarely getting out, let alone doing anything useful. Do they really think their ranting and raving would worry such a man, even if he knew of their miserable existence.

Dear mhaze,

You write;

“The economy is going gang-busters despite all the 'experts' telling us in 2016 that the reverse would happen.”

Wait a second, you boofheads tore into Rudd for increasing government spending to charge the economy but when Trump does it it's suddenly a genius move?

I tell you what else happened in 2016, Trump declared he would eliminate the deficit within 8 years. How is it going so far?

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has recently predicted the federal budget deficit will reach $960 billion for 2019 FY and $1 trillion in 2020. This blows away previous estimates at $896 billion in 2019 and $892 billion in 2020.

“As a result of those deficits, federal debt held by the public is projected to grow steadily, from 79 percent of GDP in 2019 to 95 percent in 2029—its highest level since just after World War II”

http://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-08/55551-CBO-outlook-update_0.pdf

Are there any other of the myths about Trump you posted are you prepared to stand by? What is the pick of the bunch?

I tell you what else happened in 2016, Trump declared he would eliminate the deficit within 8 years. How is it going so far?
Steele Redux,
He's having a great deal of trouble achieving that due to the many forces doing their utmost in working on him not to succeed. Just look at the banding together of Leftist politicians, Academics, Media etc. How on Earth do you seriously expect ANY man to succeed with as much sabotage as is thrown at Trump ? If it were justified sabotage then yes ok, but it's totally un-justified because the corrupt bureaucracy doesn't want to be exposed & get thrown off the taxpayer-funded bandwagon.
I may just ask you about Hawke's "no child shall live in poverty by 1992". How's that going ?
I'm positive that he truly wanted that but, did the whole of our bureaucratic army let him succeed ? No ! Why not ? Because our bureaucrats too don't want the gravy train to come to a stop. Are you aware that the worst possible thing you can ask a Leftist bureaucrat is to do the work they're hired & paid for ? That's why Trump is having such a battle at hand with his own people ! I think he's doing ok considering, at the least he's made them jittery !

Standard SR there.

I list a few of the reasons we need to be thankful for Trump and, unable to assail any of them, he heads off in an entirely other direction and demands that I follow him down that particular rabbit hole.

I agree that Trump's America isn't perfect. We adults recognise that in the real world (you should visit one day SR) nothing is perfect.

But with all the things I listed (which, yes, I do stand by) Trump's America is pretty damn good and only getting better. As compared to his various recent predecessors things are excellent although I'd doubt that those who hated him from the outset are ever going to admit that they were just dunces.

BTW, SR, I see you've now remembered who Liz Warren is. Tell me, is she still an Indian in your eyes or are you at least prepared to admit you were led down the garden path on that one as well?

Meanwhile, in the real world, Japan has now agreed to buy excess US corn. In the trade war with China, one of their weapons was to cut back on agricultural purchases to alienate US farmers from the Administration. Suddenly that tactic is out the window and the Chinese blinked. As usual Trump is playing 3D chess while the others just wait for the next shoe to drop. Some, no names mind you, are still trying to work out the rules to checkers.

I don't think Donald Trump is going to adjust his actions to suit left wing cranks in America, let alone those in Australia.

Yeah the Marxist cheer on the likes of Jussie Mollet. They love everything fake or based on a lie.

Yes Trump again.

He has the Chinese blinking, he put the French mummies boy in his place, the German dragon back on her fat ass, & a trade deal helping the US & the UK, sticking it to the bureaucrats of the EU, all in a couple of days. WOW.

Let's hope Boris was taking notes. He could use a bit of Trump chess skills in beating the EU bureaucrats, & his own elite.

OK learning
Lets try again
What do the majority [check it out] of Americans think of Trump
Then what do leaders of Americas Friendly country's think of him
Tell me, what do the leaders of Russia, North Korea and Iran think of him
Is there room to think they are playing him for a fool
The lost right find themselves happy he loves Russian and North Korean Dictators
Big turn around from `1970
Trump has weakened the west
Harms world trade
Threatening our whole financial system
Think about it

Dear individual,

You write;

“He's having a great deal of trouble achieving that due to the many forces doing their utmost in working on him not to succeed.”

Yeh right. He had control over both houses of Congress and did zip to address the budget deficit. Instead he jacks up military spending even further and gives himself and his rich mates large tax reductions which look like taking the deficit to over a trillion dollars a year.

All he has done is given the economy a sugar hit through increasing the deficit. Cheap and nasty and certainly profiting him and his companies.

Dear mhaze,

What drugs are you on today? I directly assailed and demolished your first claim for Trump about his running of the economy. You have decided not to flag your favourite so perhaps we should just pick the next on your list;

“Manufacturing is returning despite the Obamessiah saying it couldn't be done.”

I'm sorry but is factually incorrect. The drive to bring back manufacturing jobs was well underway through the Obama 'insourcing' initiatives.

http://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2012/01/11/everything-you-need-know-about-insourcing

“Through the course of the past two years, the economy has added 334,000 manufacturing job, and that's the strongest two-year period of manufacturing growth since the 1990s.”

Obama had many other initiatives including programs of increasing skilled workforce of apprenticeship programs and certificates.

I'm not saying Trump hasn't had some impact but his lever seems to be whacking tariffs on goods from China and other countries. It isn't driving US competitiveness at all but I will say I do support tariff protection for certain industries in Australia and we would still have a car industry in this country if we had politicians prepared to stand up for it.

As to Warren mate I do love it when you bring it up. You were completely dismantled in that discussion and it still stings by the look of it.

SR I know you are not stupid enough to believe the rubbish in your last post, so please tell us why you post such rubbish.

Are you on orders from the organisation?

"You were completely dismantled in that discussion"

Yeah you really got me there.

You started off asserting that EW had proven she was an Amer-Indian based on her blood test.

I started off saying that was rubbish.

She ended up saying that it was completely wrong to say was a Person of Colour and apologising for having done so.

ie she ended up agreeing with the position I took and completely debunking the position you took.

Yeah you really won out there. What a dill.

But I do have to say I marvel at just how readily you are prepared to outright lie in order to avoid admitting error. Prepared to beclown yourself in order to avoid looking the clown.

Either-or ? Is it possible that Trump is an incompetent narcissist AND the Democrat contenders are all also bloody useless ? As Trump move right, those dumb-arses move left, neither having the sense of trying to win over the huge centre ?

What the US needs is a broad, centrist party, pinching votes from both the Trump buffoons and the Democrat buffoons. i.e. the US scene needs a huge injection of common-sense.

Joe

Speaking of beclowning yourself, SR writes:

"I'm sorry but is factually incorrect. The drive to bring back manufacturing jobs was well underway through the Obama 'insourcing' initiatives."

And to prove it he goes to Obama's own website to tell us what a great job Obama did. Really? Struth, let's go to Pravda to find out if the Russians poisoned Skripal. Honestly!

And even then he has to go back to an article that uses 2010 figures. Now I'll agree that during Obama's early years some jobs were created. That was all to do with the recovery after the GFC. But it was the slowest recover of since 1930. In fact, comparing Obama's last 21 months with Trump's first 21 months, Trump's period saw manufacturing jobs being created at 10 times the rate of Obama's.

Remember when Obama tried to ridicule Trump before the election by saying how naive Trump was and that he'd need a magic wand to bring manufacturing jobs back? And remember how Obama said those jobs just weren't coming back. And remember how Obama's economists said "Nothing policy can do will bring back those lost jobs. The service sector is the future of work, but nobody wants to hear it."

Well those jobs did come back and then some. Now all the idiot Obam-ites want to pretend that their god and saviour was the one responsible for those returning jobs even though their g&s himself said it wasn't going to happen.

Beclowning oneself indeed.

Loudmouth Australia could do with one of those
Yes a centrist I some times wounder why the very left exist
Other than to keep the Conservatives in power
Now lets not kid our selves some supporters of this mad man are frothing at the mouth
In pure rage that such a thread exists, even more so at those who disagree with them
Yet one truth can not be ignored, the man will fall
Question is how much damage will he do first
Second question after that fall, how will those who are angered by the thread, explain that fall
Bet it [hugely funny but sad too] begins with the deep state/left did it

Steele Redux,
You're obviously some Uni student who simply doesn't click what this is all about. The Conservatives concern themselves about reasonably sustainable economics whereas the Leftists are only ever on about idealism. Their real concerns are to maintain the bandwagon & gravy train for those who do not actually produce/contribute, i.e. those whose income is taken from tax revenue.
Trump so aptly calls them "The Swamp" !

Not so sure, Individual: tit-for-tat economic policy doesn't always work, especially when it can become (as in the case of the US and China) tit-for-tat-for-tit-for-tat policy. So where has that pointless economic war got anybody so far, really ?

What's Trump's next brilliant move ? Quantitative easing ? "Hey, I know - let's just print more money !" Genius. How's that working for Venezuela ?

Suppose China tried something surprising: say, a reduction in tariffs on all goods NOT from the US ? Especially, say, from the EU and Japan ? Or tax breaks for EU and Japanese firms to operate in China ? Is it possible that we would see US firms re-locating (maybe relocating back) to Europe and Japan ?

Just a thought.

Joe

Loudmouth,
Well, the Swamp is so big that Trump will need to play the show of appeasement for starters !
No-one knows how the swamp people will react because it has never been done before.
One thing's certain, they'll get super dirty from now on.

Hi Individual,

Do you really think that Trump isn't in the business of replacing 'their' Swamp with his own ?

Joe

Hands up! must admit, I tried to post a bitter rebuttal of some junk comment here
It mysteriously, disappeared,my stuff often does, before I post
Yet my feeling and thoughts are truly held
No taunting here, just my version of truth
Trump is an idiot, he may well be a puppet of some group who installed him
That group may well prosper because people have little faith in politics
A different deep state, a very real one, intent on another form of government
Fake news true fake news,producing that term, using real fake news to infer truth had no value
Stock market lives a yo yo life in fear of what the DILL will say next
I see my opponents words think I know, they in fact serve exactly the type they, better informed, would fear
I fear Donald Trump, almost as much as I fear the rights true deep state and false fake news factory

Well if nothing else the thread some of it contributors and contributions seem to prove my view Trump has fooled some
But just this morning he, yet again, changed his mind and says [any one think he means it?] China [short for American consumers] will pay that extra tariffs after all
Trump by his every action may bring world trade and financial markets crash any sing day tomorrow maybe

Trump's ultimate aim, which is his electoral platform, is to make America great and the way he intends to do it is by destroying Chinese competition in the global marketplace. The trade war between the US and China is his weapon of choice.

Mr Opinionated,

But it's a weapon that China can use too. There are no winners from a trade war. And as the ABC's Alan Kohler suggests, what if China decides to REDUCE tariffs on goods from countries other than the US ? And, one could add, impose tariffs on Walmart goods produced in China ?

And we'll all pay.

Joe

Do you really think that Trump isn't in the business of replacing 'their' Swamp with his own ?

Joe

No Joe I don't think he has a swamp, other than the deplorables in the mid USA street.

Dear Loudmouth,

It's possible that China could do that. Trump could retaliate by putting pressure on the EU, etc., to offset that. It's still part of the trade war but escalating it beyond a tit for tat between the US and China.

Though would you agree that Trump is trying to ruin China as part of his Make America Great Again program?

Also if they go down the path of directly involving others in their feud I reckon it could end up in a real war just the way similar circumstances between the US and Japan resulted in the Pacific War of 1941-45.

Hasbeen,

Of course he does, every politician has one in waiting. And after all, he claims to be a 'people-person', a wheeler-dealer, a businessman (even a bankrupt one, many times over, but that's the US system). He picks and chooses his Secretaries on the basis of his friendships, so I'm sure he's busy staffing the bureaucracy with his own associates. And de-staffing those who displease him.

He's not unique, of course: every Democrat candidate has his Swamp-in-waiting.

Joe

World trade do we remember a past America putting UNFAIR tariffs on our Lamb
Nearly crippled that trade
As said the EU,s once huge stock pile of food supported by unfair subsidy's to growers
The impacts of the EU dumping [at below costs] it on the open market
If no trade tariffs existed how many of us know this country's rural products would compete on the open market to such an extent we may not be able to grow enough to fill the orders
Yes America has a big ,huge, trade deficit with China
Other country's too
Some of us understand it is not food, they share for the most part our ability to produce it at the needed price
They like Australia, cannot compete in Manufacturing
Solve that problem? only by reducing the standard of living by huge margins for most of us
Fact is the man who says he knows the art of the deal in fact would not understand the above, Trump is a senile old man, self promoting but senile and a danger to us all

Of course he does, every politician has one in waiting
Loudmouth,
Yes, but Trump isn't a politician, he's a businessman who knows that anything the politicians have ever done is flawed.
He's unpopular because he's getting under their skin & is a real threat to them & not the Nation.
It's time more non-politicians started to show the entrenched bureaucrats the door !

Trump indy, long before he became POTUS, went bankrupt several times, hardly and endorsement of his skill in that field
He still, refuses to show us his tax returns
And too with in his own country's business world, is thought of by many [they told us] as a self promoting fool
To judge the man, we ,me too, must see his actions hear his words, without any thing else making us judge him
EG Hillary Clinton [our dislike off her] then he can be seen for what he is
Often here people do judge him because he beat that very very poor candidate [Clinton] surely he should be judged for who and what he is, not the person he defeated

hardly and endorsement of his skill in that field
Belly,
We could say the same about the Unions here & the car industry !
Trump just exploited tax loopholes as do most business people here !
How many times do we hear of companies supposedly going bankrupt only for the managers & directors to keep on living in multimillion dollar mansions & the creditors get nothing !
It's nothing but an extremely dirty tactic by greedy Lawyers & bureaucrats.

Belly,
Come think of it purely hypothetical, would you have approved/disapproved of someone of Dick Smith's caliber as PM ? A successful businessman with no culture of politics to think clearly & logically rather than entrenched incompetent bureaucrats !

Little bit confused are you indy? Dick Smith while no union or Labor lover is a truly great Australian
He gives big money to charity over and above the every cent of profit he made from his food business [now closed]
And no idea why I bother but what has our once highly protected car industry got to do with Trump
Tell you what it however highlights we can not compete in manufacturing but you missed that
It is Trumps nature that every morning the stock markets tremble in fear of his over night tweets

Belly,
Just a relevant answer to my question would suffice !

every morning the stock markets tremble in fear of his over night tweets
Belly,
GOOD ! It's the only way to deal with manipulators ! Billions of Dollars being misused by them !

indy, mate, see it is my view your question is not worth the effort to reply
Hands up, been looking at anti Trump stuff to post here
Thought better of it, after all he will say some thing silly in the next 24 hours, he always does
But Trumps deleted tweets are worth looking at, he says one thing in his bed on twitter then deletes it in the morning
Man is a Twit and that should shock us all POTUS is an idiot

Belly,
So, the wasting & embezzlement of Billions by Leftists is of no concern to you ? Nice !

Dear Hasbeen,

You say;

"No Joe I don't think he has a swamp."

How on earth can anyone still believe that is true unless they have been living under a rock for the last 2 years?

He was supposed to drain the swamp by putting "a five-year ban on White House and congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service."

This is what happened instead.

"He’s granted five times as many waivers in his first four months in office as Obama did, which cover key figures in the administration like Chief of Staff Reince Priebus, chief strategist Steve Bannon, and counselor Kellyanne Conway. All told, 17 waivers were granted to members of the White House staff, and we still have no idea how many waivers have been granted for other executive branch agencies or whether anyone is even keeping track."
http://www.vox.com/2017/6/1/15723994/trump-ethics-waivers

The fact you are still running with the swamp line shows just how bloody out of touch you are.

Come off it SR. Swamps are very big things, as you should know.

The little puddle of Trump supporters would take a hundred years to grow to the current bunch of smarties.

Are you really suggesting he doesn't get a quid pro quo X2 each time he goes easy on swamp members. You really are thicker than I thought.

Swamp people will give swamp people answers no matter where they are ! Newts the lot of them !

http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/we-don-t-work-for-you-fox-news-anchor-rips-into-donald-trump-20190831-p52mlu.html
For me at least the sure and certain understanding a day will come when the shallow uniformed Trump supporters will face the truth
That being they fell for a con man with very real issues with the truth and his mental health
That day will highlight failure to truly engage with and understand politics ,is the reason we have bad politicians
Out fault not the politicians

Only Left nutjobs can't see that Trump has turned America's fortunes around since the dog days of Obama.

According to SR, Kellyanne Conway is an example of someone who got a waiver on "a five-year ban on White House and congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service."

I think someone should tell Kellyanne that she's left government service because she, and most people not named SR, think she still works for the White House.

Stand-by for another entertaining edition of SR's famous, 'when I said 'A', it was obvious I really meant 'B', and how dare you suggest I didn't think it was 'C'.

How could he have made that error? Oh , he reads Vox. Well that explains it and why he misunderstands so much about the USA

"For me at least the sure and certain understanding a day will come when the shallow uniformed Trump supporters will face the truth". Belly

Only a fool thinks he knows it all Belly, Shallow & uninformed works both ways. The totally indoctrinated are totally blind old mate, & your posts on Trump sound like totally indoctrinated & shallow.

Trump has done more to overturn that greenie US hating ratbag Obamas stuff ups in a couple of years than anyone expected him to do in a couple of terms.

What he is doing may not be great for our iron ore & coal exports to China, but then he is the president of the US, not Australia.

Don't keep knocking what you don't understand, & be greatful that Trump has saved the world from the middle east oil rip-off. It may be not that long before we have to go to the US for our petroleum supplies or see our cities starve.

Belly,

Trump says that China is close to making a trade deal and rather than risk it, is seeking to resolve the Hong Kong situation humanely. That's a relief.

OTOH, China wants to resolve the HK situation well before its national day on October 1. That's ominous.

We'll see.

Joe

Joe China, like Trump, can not be trusted but you knew that
Hasbeen RUOK? time and again you insult my views even my ability to think
Truth is I have formed an opinion, of you
Know old mate please, a day will come when the very right [even within this government] will fall
It will not be to the phantom very left your indoctrination warns you about
History has shown our Liberals moving right, and Labor moving in to ground they left
We however are the only party with honest and fair reforms in mind
A day will come that sees again a Labor PM with the support Hawk and Rudd had at their peak

Belly when you continually make silly statements like, "shallow uniformed Trump supporters", just what the hell do you expect to get back.

Lets take a look at Trump's recent
behaviour:

He's seriously considered buying Greenland then
cancelled a trip to Denmark and finally insulted
Denmark's female PM Mette Frederiksen whom he
characterised as "nasty" (his all purpose insult
to women who won't do his bidding) and claimed that
when she says his idea about purchasing Greenland was
"absurd" - she is offending the US.

He's called Jews disloyal on consecutive days and
proclaimed himself to be the "Chosen On." He insists
that kicking Russia out of the Group of 8 for its
invasion of Ukraine was a mistake by Pres. Obama
and should be reversed. He seeks approval from
Russian Vladimir Putin. Believes that personal
diplomacy with Kim Jong Un works and the list goes
on.

He's a man who need to be loved all the time. He needs
to have power over everyone all the time. Once you get
that idea down - the rest of his behaviour and his
speech makes sense.

He's erratic, illogical, narcissistic, unhinged, unable
to control his anger, and forgetful. And its getting
worse. He's lost the ability to differentiate himself
from the country and his own psychological needs from
the country's interests. To oppose him is to be
an "enemy of the people". His incoherence carries
frightening risks.

Quite a few American commentators have expressed the need
for Trump's officials - who have a patriotic obligation
to speak with one voice to do so. To make it plain
their concerns over the President's fitness for office
and call for a psychological examination by a panel of
expert psychiatrists and if Trump refuses - his
resignation.

They also recommend that all Presidential candidates
(Republican challengers and Democrats) should express
grave concerns about Trump's mental and emotional fitness
as should Members of Congress. And if need be, hearings
should be held to convey expert opinion about Trump's
observable behaviour.

Spot on, Foxy. And welcome back :)

Love,

Joe

Thanks Joe.

Good to be back.

Love right back.

spot on Foxy and still miles ahead of the lying liberal media and democrats whose only argument is race politics now they have egg all over their face over the fake Russian collusion.

btw how is African American employment figures these says?

Dear runner,

I love how Trump now thinks Fox News is part of the lying liberal media too.

The man is a hoot.

Runner my thanks you make me laugh even those bad mornings the black dog has my attention you bring huge grins
Like every morning my news search saw me hoping this was not the morning Trump invaded Canada or some such thing
He lets see, thought bombing NUCLEAR no less! hurricanes to stop them damaging his country
Used highly secrete information in his twitter rants
Did not go to Poland to embrace the Hitler fan running,or is it ruining? that country
So no, he never bombed the Democrats he just rants as usual while waiting for the diagnosis his is in the final stages of dementia

Dear Belly,

Some of us may not be concerned about the damage that
Trump's behaviour is causing not only in the US but
around the world. But Americans appear to be very
concerned of the damage that is being done to their
own country.

You only have to watch TV programs like their:

Meet The Press
ABC America
PBS NEWS
Planet America
NBS Today

To name just a few.

It's a good thing Donald Trump doesn't read Online Opinion. If he knew how much he has upset Belly and other Trumpitis sufferers, I'm sure that he wouldn't seek another term as POTUS. Although I think Trump is good for America, I understand that other people think differently. What I don't understand as why some of those people spend so much of their lives agonising over a foreign politician, particularly one who has clearly shown that he is more interested in leading America than he is in leading the world, unlike so many of his predecessors.

I wonder - how many Americans even know the name of our Prime Minister, or even the differences in our political systems. A lot of them still think that we are a little country next to Germany.

We should be thinking local and acting local. Australian politicians are still causing more trouble for our country than Trump ever will.

ttbn! I challenge that! you said you think it seems an impossibility to me that you can do that
Sunday, Saturday in the once United States, so Trump has not [as far as we know] threatened any one yet
He will he without doubt will
And he will call truth fake news within hours some [ttbn] will believe him
But confront this truth he may, any day any hour, start the biggest financial crises from the great depression
Art of the deal
A term used to blind us to his many bankruptcys and refusal to show his tax details

Belly,

I'm sorry, but I honestly cannot understand what you are trying to say to me. I don't mean that unkindly; I simply can't interpret your unusual use of the English language. You are probably better with oral communication than you are with the written. Perhaps you would do better with talk-back radio. There are plenty of opportunities to vent your disagreement with everything on the airwaves.

Looks like we made it this day at least Trump never said or did anything down to his usual standard
Still thinking about how many would die if he fought hurricanes with Nuclear bombs

Dear mhaze,

You wrote;

“According to SR, Kellyanne Conway is an example of someone who got a waiver on "a five-year ban on White House and congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service." I think someone should tell Kellyanne that she's left government service because she, and most people not named SR, think she still works for the White House.”

Hell mate you can be childish. All I did was furnish the quote.

Reince Priebus and Steve Bannon both had left while Conway is of course still there but was included in the quote presumably because she got an ethics waiver of some kind like the other two. The ethics pledge was designed to combat lobbyist influence from both incoming and outgoing staff.

Here is the Ethics Pledge;

http://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-ethics-commitments-executive-branch-appointees/

Americans this day start to pay more for some products produced in China
Trumps tariffs
So? well China may not win this war but it can harm others, us included
Trump is mad China is weird, they still think saving face matters
We are on the edge, one morning the world may enter a recession it will take decades to recover from, trade war? not the answer
Donald should get his metal health checked Dementia is a dreadful thing

Dear Belly,

I watched the segment of 60 Minutes last night on
Donald Trump where people who had worked with him
spoke about the man's erratic behaviour.

Trump's officials do have a patriotic obligation to
speak with one voice to make plain to Congress over
this President's fitness for office and to call for
a psychological examination by a panel of expert
psychologists - and if Trump refuses - his
resignation.

As I stated earlier - all Presidential candidates
(Republican challengers and Democrats) should express
grave concerns about Trump's mental and emotional
fitness as should members of Congress.

If need be, hearings should be held to convey expert
opinion about Trump's observable behaviours.

It's really amusing how some of the nobody-know nothing posters here talk about the "erratic behaviour" of anyone else, particularly that of the President of the United States. Delusions and over-estimation of their worth is obviously a problem for these non-performers.

ttbn my thanks you prove my point Dementia is a cruel illness get well soon.
Today Donald [McCarthyism] Trump DEMANDED a list of celebrity's attending a Democratic fund raiser
Now if that was Clinton? Obama?, even G W Bush?
The rage of Republicans would deafen us over here
Saw that Foxy gee it underlines the very real danger we all face if his supporters think this man is some type of savior

Dear Belly,

In reality the people who are expressing the most
concern about the US President's behaviour are his
own staff, his ex-staff, and his own officials
who've been interviewed by the media. And members
of Congress as well.

They feel that they can't stay silent any longer.
They're the ones that are using words like -
"He's nuts!" erratic, narcissistic, unhinged,
unable to control his anger, illogical, and at times
totally forgetful and confused.

The man according to them has lost the ability to
differentiate himself from the country and his own
psychological needs from the country's interests.

To oppose him is to be an "enemy of the people".

No wonder they are concerned. His incoherence does
carry frightening risks.

Foxy quite true, however read the post above, ttbn,s know it is about standard for many who support Trump
Uniformed, uncertain why they support him, thinking their personal biases are his
Ignoring his Nuclear bomb hurricane, his record of lost staff, his demented nature
They threaten us all, if they vote for him they would vote for the devil

Dear Belly,

As you know my husband and I lived and worked
in the US for close to ten years. We travelled
extensively all over the country. Our children
were born there. We have family and friends still
living there. And we keep in touch regularly.
So we've got a very good grip on the pulse of that
country and having experienced the massiveness of
elections there, and the politics, we know what's
at stack. Of course the keyboard warriors on the
forum - are entitled to their opinions. But
not their facts, and they
certainly can't speak for the many concerned
citizens whose opinions are reflected on TV
programs like - Meet The Press,
ABC America, PBS News, Planet America, NBS Today,
CNN, et cetera.

Sorry for the typo.

I meant to say - stake not stack.

Well, of course. Anyone who was in the U.S who knows how many years ago would have a "very good grip on the pulse of that country". Particularly with the experience of "the massiveness" of elections there. But hang on, wasn't Trump just elected in 2016? So they would know diddly squat, really. When this person was there, nobody would have dreamed of anyone like Trump going into politics. So, whatever might, or might not, have been experienced in the past has no bearing on the present.

What about the rellies? Well, this person doesn't say they actually have contact with them, so we don't have a clue what they think; although if their attitudes were the same as hers … well we already know about her opinions anyway, so not much of a backup for her. About half American population have severe Trumpitis.

The fact that she then trips back over to Leftist media (as usual) for 'proof' that the rest of us are wrong really puts the mockers on her bluff.

Sorry, Foxy. You are a harmless enough odd ball, but you really are full of 'it'.

ttbn,

I lived and worked in the US during times of massive
changes and upheavals. I saw and experienced first
hand how politics operated in that country. I attended
many rallies and again saw first hand the power of
the media. I lived through several presidential elections.
So I am in a position to judge the election of Trump
and what has resulted in his election far better than you
having lived in that country and experienced things
first hand.

I know what I do know. You have no idea - and therefore
are in no position to judge me, my knowledge, or my
past experiences.

Why do you deliberately try to demean my opinion?
You don't have to agree with it - but you should have
the decency to be civil so that we can have a
reasoned conversation.

Your current behaviour is that of a typical bully.

Which is disappointing because you have displayed many
moments of lucidity and good reasoning on this forum.

I am not trying to demean your opinion; opinions are like backsides, everyone has one. But you are making sweeping statements claiming qualifications you simply do not have. You are no more qualified to hand down findings on American politics than anyone else. Even if living in America helped, which it does not - we are only talking about opinions here - you have no proof that you have been anywhere near America - ever. Who cares. You are not harming anyone with your claims, real or imaginary. But, I assure you, you are no better equipped to express opinions than anyone else on this site; and everyone else thinks their opinion is more valid than yours. Get used to it. And believe me, lady, I am in a position to "judge" you - if you feel you are being judged. And judging you is not being 'uncivil'. I'll judge anyone I choose to judge, based on what they say and how they say it; and I am sure other people do the same with me and everyone else. Judging people and situations is a vital component of survival - and it's OK to do it just because you want to. Madam Foxy doesn't make the rules. Short of abuse and bad language, anything goes, until our coordinator says otherwise. And, don't you dare call me a bully. That's something you do a good job of yourself, relying on your gender to get a free pass from a few of the old goofs here who sometimes ovederdo the 'gentleman' bit. Ooh, sexism. Off with his head!

I know lots of non-Left women out there who don't feel it's necessary to nag and nag if someone disagrees with them; they don't need to win every argument going. Why can't we have some of them? Perhaps you are frightening them off with your particular brand of bullying

Ttbn,

So you lived in the US for many years ? You're completely familiar with US politics ?

Trump reminds me of a bully in my Third Class at a Bankstown PS, a big boy, the son of the headmaster. Except that Trump, the grandson of a brothel-keeper and inheritor of $ 600 million which he has turned into bankruptcy, probably is far less intelligent even than that bully.

And he's got even more power over 320 million people. And to a large extent, the world.

He sucks up to Russia, North Korea and China. Figuratively, he sits on the faces of small countries and farts. Big joke. Some of us know the type. And never forget.

A deal-maker ? Has he tried Hong Kong ? Now THAT would be a deal: democracy for Hong Kong. But he's too busy with his 'brilliant' tactics of alternating between bombastic bluster and snivelling sucking-up to Xi Zhing Ping. What a turd of a 'man'.

Joe

My fault, sorry, see I try to ignore ttbn, but let a post get under my skin
Yes every one has opinions, that is the reason this site exists
TTBN however CONSTANTLY challenges others rights to one
Even [in my view] hounding newcomers away from this site with open ABUSE
Now not one of us must agree with every ones opinions
And I did, sorry, question the sanity of extreme Trump supporters
Those who see open racism, as a good quality
Anti refugees/migration as a winnable argument
Believe in that invented deep state and fake news
But not that both are the invention of but made and used by the weirdest person ever to be POTUS

ttbn,

It seems that you've made up your mind about
me and that is something over which I have no control.
I'll have to try to live with it I guess, difficult
as that may be. :-)

ttbn lets talk, do you see the numbers who respond to your posted threads
Are you aware I am far from the only person questioning your ability to think
NOW REMEMBER abusing me?
NAMING ME? AS ALLAN BELL? CLEARLY ANOTHER POSTER [BUT THAT IS MY NAME]
How many new arrivals have you greeted with gutless mindless insults?
It remains my view you, without change should be bared from these pages,I question are your extremist views reason enough to forgive out right abuse you dish out constantly, and WORRY that may indeed be the case

Well every paper has the Trump Nuclear bomb Hurricanes story
Mostly for the humor of it, but just think, how many would die because of such insanity

Dear Belly,

The only way to win with a toxic person
is not to play.

When someone is rude and toxic, remember,
it's not about you.
It's a reflection of their inner state.

Donald Trump is a perfect example.

Foxy quite true but not playing, while the best way,empowers fools to think they have won
Trump, we should all remember, is in election mode, he thinks his recent behavior is good!

how many would die because of such insanity
Belly,
Have you given it any thought on how many will perish miserably if we let the Progressives run the show ? Regress is already speeding up now because of their constant sabotage. All the refugee problems are due to progressive politics, not Conservatism !

Individual,

The US, Uk, Europe, and the rest of the world, would
thoroughly disagree with your world view. Britain
wants an election to kick Boris out. Trump's time
is running out, and the pendulum is swinging against
the current government in many areas here as well.
Things are not as you describe.

"Things are not as you describe."

And fortunately, they are not as you want or imagine.

mhaze,

Prove it.

As a progressive and proud of it I grin at the Trump supporters who bleat out his types junk about us
Trump is gone
Only when is unsure,outside our aging group here very different views are held
And many here will want to forget they held such views after he is both gone and unmasked for his true self
PROGRESSIVE? any one who thinks our world should look after every one not just rich people

"Trump is gone
Only when is unsure"

I predict 20/1/2025.

I seem to recall you telling us with equal certainty that Trump would be gone by year's end.

It reminds me of one of those religious end-is-nigh types who keep predicting Armageddon and then, when it fails to occur, just make up a new date.

You chaps and chapettes break me up. You predicted Hillary would win. You predicted Trump would be impeached. You predicted Mueller would prove Russian collusion. You predicted Mueller would prove a perversion of the justice charge. You predicted Trump was a war-monger. You predicted Trump would destroy the US economy. And who knows what else.

And yet, when all, ALL, you're predictions fail to come to pass you just go on predicting, confident that you have a handle on the events. The sane man would look at all these failures as a sign that he doesn't really understand what's going on.

But not you guys. Belly, keeps linking to this and that SMH article as though its holy-writ, never realising that its the most anti-Trump rag in Australia. Foxy keeps watching all her leftist anti-Trump programmes while hilariously telling other to widen their outlook.

Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.

Dear mhaze,

Sorry old chap but you didn't think he would win either;

“I still think the machine-men will finally wear him down, but don't write him off just yet.”

And this was another of your prescient predictions;

“Trump doesn't have to actually impose the anti-Chinese tariffs to force them to the negotiating table. The threat is enough. Just start the process and get all the ducks lined up ready to implement the tariff. Then go to the Chinese and say "Now about that currency of your's and your copyright violations. Anything you can do about them?" “

It is interesting how you even then were intent on assigning him magical powers. Yet there doesn't seem to be one iota of disappointment from you when he spectacularly fails to live up to them,

mhaze,

It appears that you've swallowed Trump's braggadocio.

The man started on day one with false claims about
the size of the inauguration crowd. According to the
BBC and other sources since then we've had more than
7,000 falsehoods from the man.

The first drafts of Trump's history - most notably Bob
Woodward's Best Seller - "Fear" have painted a portrait
of unprecedented dysfunction.

One only has to look at the chaos of staff turnover,
two secretaries of state, two secretaries of defence,
two attorney's general, three White House Chiefs of
staff and a revolving door of senior West Wing aids.

Then there's foreign policy by tweet, the chumminess with
adversarial authoritarian leaders such as Kim Jong-Un
and Vladimir Putin. The blurring of ethical lines
supposedly separating the Trump White House from the
Trump business empire. The Russian collusion investigation
which has raised questions, so far unsettled about his
true allegiance.

We have the twitter tirades, the ugly slurs, the playground
nicknames. He often sounds like a crime family boss than a
US President. Even conservatives have (and are) criticizing
his presidency.

Dear oh dear. How will history judge this man?
It will be interesting to read to forthcoming books
by those in the White House who will paint even
a more clearer picture for us. And it won't be a flattering
one - either of the man himself or of the people that have
kept this clown in power for as long as they have.

cont'd ...

I forgot to mention that Trump's inflated claims -
US Steel is not opening up six new plants. Trump
is not the author of the biggest tax cut in American
history.

The trade war has penalised US manufacturers and
farmers and in 2018 the stock market suffered its
worst year, since the 2008 financial meltdown.
This market volatility high lights other Trump
tendencies contributing to his poor reviews in the
media - pointing to a buoyant stock market as a metric
of personal success, the downside of which is the
downswing and blaming others when things go south.

Those books Foxy are being written right now
Many by past Trump lovers, they will wait for his fall, then put the verbal boot in
Of most concern is how he conned those like Is Mise, how did rational humans ever not see him for what he is
Right now, in between rounds of golf, he is quite, just maybe he has been warned to calm down
Or he maybe trying to find a way to get himself and his family immunity if he steps down

Dear Belly,

As soon as he leaves the White House the
law will come down on him like a ton of
bricks. They can't indite a sitting President -
but once he leaves office its a different story.

In any case I'm sure that he can always be taken
in by Russia. Maybe he's already made arrangements?
Didn't he try to build a Trump Tower in Moscow?
And aren't Russian oligarths bank-rolling his
businesses?

Sorry for the typo.

Indite should have read - indict.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/what-i-meant-when-i-said-don-t-enable-trump-20190905-p52o45.html
I have a thought, if Trump supporters here will, just for a minute, read this balanced view of Trump
It will give them a more honest view than Sky/Fox ever did [yes know truth is not part of the plan for both]

So SR,

You decide to show how I incorrectly thought Trump couldn't win by pointing to a post where I said I thought he could win. I guess you think there's logic there...but you'd be wrong.

And then you try to make some point about the Chinese negotiations. These aren't over yet so I don't see how anyone can say previous predictions are right or wrong. But we do already know that the Chinese have caved on the issue of copyright violations so half of what I suggested has already come to pass.

What "magical powers" did I assign to Trump? Just making stuff up again. Stuff-up being your default position.

Again, its funny how the TDS crowd fail to see the successes of the past three years. Take China's economic shenanigans. This has been going on for the better part of three decades. Clinton enabled it. Bush ignored it. Obama sat like a rabbit caught in the head-lights. Silence from the TDS crowd. But now they proclaim that, after a mere 3 years Trump hasn't completely solved the issue. That he is well on the way to fixing it and a range of other problems is ignored. Oh well hang in there and continue to be misled.

Just on SR, we ought to remember that he. more than anyone here, fell head over tush for the Russian collusion fable. So he has a vested interest in trying to ignore the Trump successes.

Speaking of which...

http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-poland-usa-energy/us-to-help-poland-ukraine-disconnect-from-russian-gas-idUSKCN1VL0HH?fbclid=IwAR2lU67nmD_ho0MzyQmWoqfiD4_rhVZZ4-R0WSm8Xf-VoYR5SIfzPmXhg9Q

Dear mhaze,

To repeat this was an example of the magical powers you had assigned to the buffoon;

"Trump doesn't have to actually impose the anti-Chinese tariffs to force them to the negotiating table. The threat is enough."

Well it wasn't was it. Now all he is doing is digging himself deeper. I am perfectly happy for him to be protecting US industry via tariffs, as I said it would have been great if some of our politicians had stepped up when needed.

But you had been singing his praises for so long that it was a pleasure showing up how much of a sycophant you are for your president.

Thank you for making it so easy.

And the hilarity continues.

I point out that Foxy, relying on her purely left leaning sources, has made an unbroken series of failed predictions about Trump and the Trump presidency. And without the slightest effort to address that point, conceding therefore that indeed she has been misled for 3 years by said sources, she simply goes on make a series of other predictions which will undoubtedly come to the same fate as before. That is, shown to be wrong and rapidly forgotten by Foxy.

Just a few other Foxy points:

"2018 the stock market suffered its
worst year, since the 2008 financial meltdown."

The stock market? you want to use the stock market as a Trump negative? This is the market that, upon his victory, we were advised would collapse, but instead grew by around 50%. You really ought to be more suspicious of these TDS sources of yours.

"chumminess with
adversarial authoritarian leaders such as Kim Jong-Un"

You've used this phraseology before to discredit Trump. The reason is that you, and presumably your TDS sources, don't or aren't prepared to try, to understand this form of diplomacy. The west spent 70 years demonising the NK leadership and got precisely nowhere in terms of negotiation. Now there is progress by trying to show Kim et al that, if they play nice they can have a friend in the USA. It may not work but its better than the policies of the previous few presidents who effectively enabled the NK nuclear programme. But I suppose your TDS sources won't tell you that.

As to Belly, I point out that he seems to get all his opinions on Trump from the most anti-Trump source in Australia (the SMH) and he responds by linking to the SMH. Hopefully that was a subtle joke but I suspect not.

So SR,

You try to show I thought Trump couldn't win by showing me saying Trump could win. I point out the illogicality of that.

You respond by....changing the subject. Pretty standard SR.

m haze! how will you retreat after the unmasking of Trump
And how will you try to account for being blinded by the product of the south bound end of a north bound bull the man feeds such as you with
Foxy, you [just like him] paint anyone on the others side as left
And that is both hugely funny and tells more about you than her

mhaze,

There's no point in continuing to argue with you.
We're on opposite sides of the pole in our
thinking. History will judge Donald Trump. Not
you or I. And as the books about him continue to
be published we shall a;; get to see the full reality.
of what this man was all about. His braggadocio won't
help him.

Dear mhaze,

You write;

"You try to show I thought Trump couldn't win by showing me saying Trump could win. I point out the illogicality of that. You respond by....changing the subject. Pretty standard SR."

Pretty lame even by your standards. Do you even know the point you are trying to make here?

You claimed Trump wouldn't have to impose tariffs to get the Chinese to fold, instead he is sending farmers to the wall and seeing his country seeing its first major downturn in in 10 years. This is your version of winning?

m haze remember post Trump your support for him ,we will
Know he is right now in great difficulty because his words are not matching his deeds
Should we fall off the financial cliff he no one else, will take the blame

SR,

So you don't want to acknowledge that you got my prediction about a possible Trump win all wrong. OK, I won't make fun of you over that any more...especially when there's so much else to make fun of eg...
my prediction about copyright violations was spot on. They did fold prior to the imposition of tariffs. And there's every likelihood that they'll fold on all their other unfair trade practices in the near future. As to "ending farmers to the wall"...well I'd ask for evidence, especially in light of the recent Japan deal, but being SR we'd just get more rubbish and distorted numbers.

" first major downturn in in 10 years"... http://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/05/payroll-growth-195000-in-august-vs-140000-estimate-adpmoodys.html

Foxy,

Yes Trump will be judged by history and not the distorting TDS media you favour. And he won't be judged on issues about whether there was disruption in the administration or whether he looked sideways at some snowflake etc. He'll be judged on results on issues like NK, China, Iran, the US recovery, beating out the US socialist revival, pushing back against Russia, the Afghanistan withdrawal . He won't win out on all of these but if just a few and a move in the right direction on the rest, he'll be considered one of the greats.

But fear not Foxy. By then, just as all your other failed prediction and hopes have been memory-holed, all your current predictions and hopes will have morphed into something else.

Belly asks: "m haze! how will you retreat after the unmasking of Trump"

Well, its interesting that you say this as though the unmasking is an established fact. Learned nothing in the past 3 years, our Belly.

But if it did happen, I definitely wouldn't adopted the Belly/Foxy/SR policy of simply ignoring my failed opinions. I'd seek to work out why I was wrong and which sources led me down the garden path. And then I'd seek new sources. You should consider that one day. I can provide you with plenty of our sources so you can get the truth rather that TDS BS.

Dear mhaze,

Lol. You are hopeless mate.

Oh well.

I'm wondering what you think of this assessment of the man's primary rules;

'never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.'

m haze you are a Representative of those here who are in fact lost right and you will never admit it
Trump now is unpopular even in his own country
But he serves an important service we can use
His rise, and coming fall, prove some people know zero about politics
And can be fooled by almost anyone
Under Trump, America is indeed a B Grade Movie, with a poorly written script and very unskilled actors

"what you think of this assessment of the man's primary rules"

Now let's first state that these rules aren't Trump's but instead Hitler's. Well not even Hitler's but something someone wrote about Hitler.

So, as Harry Hoo (Get Smart) used to say, "three possibility"

1. SR doesn't know its about Hitler and has fallen for some site which convinced him it was Trump. Given he's fallen for quite a bit these past few years, that doesn't seem unlikely.

2. He knows its not about Trump but hoped to trick me into defending it only to spring his trap. Another fail?

3. He knows its about Hitler but hoped to slide it through to convince his compatriots in TDS into thinking this was Trump's thinking.

Either way, we need to find a new adjective to describe SR somewhere between dill and childish.

Belly,

So no effort to work out how you've been misled all these years. No effort to find new and better sources. Just more of the same. Keep doing the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result. Not a good plan.

Dear mhaze,

Lol.

You could hardly have rejected that assessment out of hand by saying it obviously didn't describe your president at all could you?

The fact that you had to instead go and research its providence is good enough for me old boy.

Here is another quote from the same document;

"What is known as the mastery of material was quite unimportant to him. He quickly became impatient if the details of a problem were brought to him. He was greatly adverse to experts and had little regard for their opinion. He look upon them as mere hacks..."

http://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP78-02646R000600240001-5.pdf

Bloody uncanny in anyone's book. All good fun.

Dear Steelie,

" If you repeat a lie often enough people will
believe it and you will even come to believe it
yourself". These words were first offered by
Joseph Goebbels, propaganda maestro for Nazi
Germany who ensured Hitler's rise to power.
Hitler used it in "Mein Kempf."

This Nazi tactic is alive and well at the White
House. Donald Trump's thousands of falsehoods,
references to "fake news" and more, illustrate
this clearly. It started with the man's exaggeration
of the Inaugural crowd numbers and has not stopped
since.

As for mhaze?

His prose is always punchy, and even rarer, often
very funny. He obviously has enormous respect and
deep appreciation for the "truth."
His own of course.

Sorry - should have said -

Mein Kampf.

SR,

I didn't have to research it. I already knew about it - its been an internet meme for a couple of years now. Glad you caught up. Standard TDS rubbish about Trump being Hitler.

Hilariously for the dolts who buy this, the same thing was done to Bush. You see, for those of a certain leaning, all Republican presidents are Hitler. And then they comically congratulate themselves on the progressive thinking.

Anyway, it seems we'll never know whether SR fell for this or was just childishly trying to set a trap for me or his fellow TDS suffers. But that's standard.

Whenever SR screws up, his first priority is to try to muddy the waters rather than own up.

Dear Foxy,

There are other gems in the CIA dossier.

“I do not look for people having clever ideas of their own but rather people ho are clever in finding ways and means of carrying out my ideas”

“No system in the execution of his thoughts. He wants things his own way and gets mad when he strikes firm opposition on solid ground” as in 'No we will not sell you Greenland because it is not ours to sell'.

“For God's sake don't excite the Fuehrer – which means do not tell him bad news – do not mention things which are not as he conceives them to be.” as in let's move that destroyer carrier from his sight as it is named the John McCain.

“The White House’s directive to hide a Navy destroyer named after Senator John McCain during President Trump’s recent visit to a naval base in Japan was driven, administration officials said on Thursday, by a fear of bad visuals — the name of the president’s nemesis clearly visible in photographs of him.“
http://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/30/us/politics/trump-mccain-ship.html

Dear mhaze,

Sure. Lol.

m haze are you sure,are you sure it is us not you that are dolts
Do you understand the things Trump has done to help business but murder the environment
Did you ever look at the page after page set up on the internet telling how many lies he has told
Count for me his fallen/removed/resigned staff
Tell me what other POTUS ever had such lists
What did you think about his buy Greenland thing
His love of North Korea's Dictator
His belief in Putin [quote he told me he never did I have no reason not to believe him]

mhaze inferred that we see Republican Presidents
as being Hitlers?

No. not at all.

Ronald Reagan couldn't get his work done on
one occasion because as he explained -"the film
"The Sound of Music was on that evening.

cont'd ...

Poor Reagan. His principal biographer Lou
Cannon has written that President Reagan -
"May have been the one President in the
history of the Republic who saw his election as
a chance to get some rest. He spent nearly a full
year of his tenure not in the White House but at his
Rancho del Cielo in the hills above Santa Barbara.

He was described by many as "ämiable."

I'll repeat my previous story - on the day before a
summit meeting with world leaders - about the
future of the economy Reagan was given a briefing
book. The next morning his Chief of Staff asked him
why he hadn't even opened it.

"Well Jim,"the President explained.
"The Sound of Music was on last night."

The man was certainly not a Hitler. Not even close.

Foxy the man may have shared an illness with Trump Dementia
M Haze and those like him, use truly extreme insults to try to convince us having a different opinion is a crime
Too to infer we are of little worth mentally and morally, for holding those views
Such insults *highlight* a problem with the poster not us
History will be unkind to Trump, and baffled by his supporters

"Sure. Lol."

Oh well, SR, if you're gunna laugh out loud, that changes everything. How can I ignore such cogent argument and insightful analysis. I'll go and rethink everything.

Struth!

Foxy,

" inferred that we see Republican Presidents
as being Hitlers?"

You need some history to remember it. But generally people are very good at dis-remembering that which suits.

See here but also plenty of other examples...
http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/262157/every-republican-presidential-candidate-hitler-daniel-greenfield

Re your Reagan story, its rubbish. It has one source but is repeated often because its what those of a certain bent want to believe. James Baker, who was the person Reagan supposedly spoke those words to, has specifically denied the story.

Here's another story. First some background. In the 1950s Reagan was not a member of any party. He was hired by GE Corp to travel the country making speeches to their staff about any topic he wanted. He wrote the speeches himself and did all the research himself.

So 1983. A young White House staffer is tasked with writing a policy document on Federal forestry policy. He spends 6 months researching and writing it up. It then makes its way up the chain to Reagan. It comes back the next day with Reagan's tick and nothing else. It is nowhere near enough time for Reagan to have considered the issue and there's little indication that he gave it a moment's thought. The staffer is shattered and thinks that all the stories about a figure-head president must be true. Then one of Reagan's senior advisers gives the staffer a copy of a speech Reagan had written and delivered in 1956. It covered all the same points as the staffer's document and reached the similar conclusions. That's why it simply had a tick.
The intern went away and read all of Reagan's 1950's speeches.

Reagan was one of the two or three greatest presidents of all time. But you'll only understand that if you look at results and not over-the-back-fence gossip.

Belly,

I'm gunna try one more time.

You, and others, were clearly misled on issues such as Russian-Trump collusion. Your sources constantly told you thingswhich were clearly false. They made up stories of insiders who didn't exist . They believed and caused you to believe stuff that was just rubbish. eg the Steel Dossier.

So to my way of thinking, that requires that those who were misled ought to re-evaluate their sources and, as an absolute minimum, be much more sceptical of sources that so misled them in the past.

I find it unfathomably incredible that you wouldn't do that.

But instead you and Foxy et al have simply decided to forget that past 'unpleasantness' and to continue to believe 100% those people who previously so wantonly lied to you.

I just don't understand that thinking.

Michael Chrichton told a parable on this issue. A man opens his favourite newspaper and sees a story on a subject he's very familiar with. And as he reads it he realises that the story is utter rubbish, full of lies, misunderstandings and ignorant of the facts. He is disgusted that his favourite source could get it so wrong. Then he turns the page and sees a story on a subject on which he has no expertise...and believes every word of it.

Belly, I'm not saying you can't have an opinion on this or that. I'm simply pointing out that, in your case, believing everything the SMH tells you about Trump when that same paper so grievously lied and misled you about Trump in the past, is just bonkers.

If I didn't like you and feel that you are genuine in your passion, I wouldn't bother, as I don't bother with the likes of Mr O. I bother because I see you making errors that will leave you disappointed and bewildered down the track.

So have your different opinions. I want different opinions. But base them on something other than childlike faith that those who misled you in the past aren't doing it now as well.

Dear mhaze,

I laugh because you are amusing and actually quite a bit of fun to liven up the day.

My response to your blather was greeted with;

"Oh well, SR, if you're gunna laugh out loud, that changes everything. How can I ignore such cogent argument and insightful analysis. I'll go and rethink everything."

I am more than happy to provide cogent argument and insightful analysis when presented with something I can argue and analyse.

Nothing you presented in the post in question fitted that description.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/my-peter-the-anti-china-muse-trump-found-on-amazon-20190905-p52o3h.html
Informative reading not for closed minds and the victims of Trump
Those must wait until world headlines scream the truth to them
While waiting maybe [gee hope I am not asking the impossible] give some thought to what YOU think he has achieved
And what you understand he CLEARLY has got wrong
That Halo you have given Trump may yet become noose around his neck

mhaze,

Have you read any of Reagan's biographies?

Did you know that his mind was described as
"barren terrain?"

That you could walk through his deepest thoughts
and not get your ankles wet?

He was known as an "amiable dunce"
and one of the least qualified to be President.

He had everything done for him. Where to stand, what
to say, how to look. And that suited him very well.
Being an actor he was used to following instructions
to the letter.

Get hold of some of his biographies. They are a
revelation. Not meaning to be unkind.
Just the facts Sir, Just the Facts.

There's also the biography of Nancy Reagan - that you might
find interesting.

cont'd ...

Here's more from the Los Angeles Times on what
you're trying to deny but what's on public
record:

http://latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-04-28-op-1295-story.html

M Haze brings a very real fear to me
Just think, informed posters know, without doubt, Trump is a fraud
We are informed because we read from other than Sky/Foxes propaganda factory,working on behalf of the very rich,who intend to stay that way
We see and continue to, Trump actions that are heartless and brainless
Like separating children, from their refugee parents
Warming to Putin, the head of what is Americas biggest enemy
Those news paper headlines, when they tell of Trumps fall, will be met with deep state nonsense and leftist plots rubbish
See Trumps victims/followers have been inoculated against truth

Foxy asked: "Have you read any of Reagan's biographies?"

I have 11 books on Reagan in my library and a further 8 on my kindle. So yes. He was the most consequential leader in my lifetime so a major area of study. That's how I knew the "Sound of Music" story was false.

Since you're ( temporarily) enamoured of Cannon perhaps you'll like this (grin)...

"Ronald Reagan's great accomplishment was the enormous contribution he made to the end of the Cold War. He certainly didn't end it by himself, but he led the way. The military buildup he initiated, and Soviet concerns about the Strategic Defense Initiative, made it possible for him to negotiate with Mikhail Gorbachev from a position of strength. I discussed this extensively in the 2000 edition of my book, President Reagan: The Role of a Lifetime. [which I've read]"'

"He had everything done for him. Where to stand, what
to say, how to look. And that suited him very well.
Being an actor he was used to following instructions
to the letter."

That's patent rubbish. Now you're just making stuff up.There's any number of examples to show its rubbish, but read about how he defied all advisers in the "Pull down this wall" speech to see one of the better examples.

Reading a few anecdotes isn't the same as studying Reagan, his development and his presidency.

Most revealing are his 1950 speeches culminating in the 'Time for Choosing' speech.

But since you've read all these biographies </sarc> you already knew all that, n'est pas?

Having a bad day, Foxy?

Belly, I give up.

mhaze,

If you want to defend Reagan - go right ahead.
And if you believe that it's all fake news -
and his biographers are liars -
I have no control over that.

We all have our heroes and people we admire.
Who am I to discourage you from yours.

No, I'm not having a bad day. I'm too busy
being fabulous. How's your day been?

Found any more substantial facts on issues?

Good man!

cont'd ...

mhaze,

Here's another fact you might like to add to your
list as to who actually wrote Reagan's bring down
the wall speech. It's taken from the National
Archives:

http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2007/summer/berlin.html

Peter Mark Robinson was the White House wordsmith he drafted
the speech and wrote over 300 of them for Reagan and for
George H W Bush.

But don't let facts get in the way of a good story.

Must admit looked for Trump style foot in mouth this morning, he has been quite
Wounder if he has been told how bad his polls look
But even quite he can not help himself, he has called for a TV show, with a star he dislikes,to be shut down
Now what if Hillary or the great man Obama did that

Foxy,

Oh dear!

"And if you believe that it's all fake news -
and his biographers are liars "

Nowhere did I say his biographers were liars or that Cannon lied. This one story that you so liked is debunked but that doesn't mean Cannon lied. In the main he is a very good, though not the best, Reagan biographer. But its interesting this little bubble you live in - if I don't agree with every word the guy wrote, I must think he's a liar. Quite naive really.

Thanks for the article about the Tear down this Wall" speech, but I'm quite familiar with it and the author's book on Reagan. I don't know if you actually read it because it doesn't say what you think it says. Indeed it utterly supports what I said and debunks what you said. Do you know what an own-goal is?

Did you read this part of the article?..."There is a school of thought that Ronald Reagan only managed to look good because he had clever writers putting words in his mouth. But Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Bob Dole, and Bill Clinton all had clever writers.

Why was there only one Great Communicator?

Because Ronald Reagan's writers were never attempting to fabricate an image, just to produce work that measured up to the standard Reagan himself had already established. His policies were plain. He had been articulating them for decades—until he became President he wrote most of his material himself."

There's another interesting anecdote on the speech. One of Reagan's advisers was talking to him about the wording and the argument about it a week out from the visit to Berlin. Reagan said it didn't matter what the bureaucrats said, he was going to tell Gorbachev to tear down the wall. The adviser asked why he didn't just tell the State Dept and the rest that he'd made his decision. His response was that it was their job to have these silly arguments and he didn't want to interfere but it made no difference what they said since he knew it was right.

mhaze,

It appears that I've touched a nerve.

However, may I politely suggest that you go back and
read the link that I gave previously on Reagan's
speech writer's explanation of the Berlin Wall Speech
and who said what to whom, taken from the National
Archives. You will then get the correct summation
of what happened.

Foxy,

"I politely suggest that you go back and
read the link that I gave previously on Reagan's
speech writer's explanation of the Berlin Wall Speech"

Huh?

Here's what I said about that article...

"Thanks for the article about the Tear down this Wall" speech, but I'm quite familiar with it and the author's book on Reagan. I don't know if you actually read it because it doesn't say what you think it says. Indeed it utterly supports what I said and debunks what you said. Do you know what an own-goal is?

Did you read this part of the article?..."There is a school of thought that Ronald Reagan only managed to look good because he had clever writers putting words in his mouth. But Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Bob Dole, and Bill Clinton all had clever writers.

Why was there only one Great Communicator?

Because Ronald Reagan's writers were never attempting to fabricate an image, just to produce work that measured up to the standard Reagan himself had already established. His policies were plain. He had been articulating them for decades—until he became President he wrote most of his material himself."

It seems that, not only did you not read your own link, you didn't read my comments on that link.

So again...huh?

cont'd ...

I should also add that I am very familiar with
the Reagans. Having met both of them
socially at the "Friends of The Library" dinners
and fund-raisers held at the University of
Southern California (USC) where I worked, living in
Los Angeles. I worked both in the Reference Department
of the Edward L. Doheny University Library and in
the Cinematic Arts Library's Collections Department.

Been cruising the anti Trump pages from American press, if half the things said there are true he is gone
The question remains how will his party, or the one he used to gain power Republicans, rebuild?
And rebuild they must,they are in in the hands of Tea Party/Trump people

http://www.9news.com.au/world/news-trade-war-trump-says-latest-166-billion-china-tariffs-will-kick-in-tomorrow/1398fc30-d142-45bc-80bf-c45fe09af2e9
Seems we have had our run with this so ending with evidence Americans will suffer too from this trade war seems a good end
As said in many threads America has a right to be concerned about trade balance with China
Surely the answer is not pulling down the very very hard work to get world trade working done over the last 30 years