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The Forum > General Discussion > Should We Worry About China?

Should We Worry About China?

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An article in the Sydney Morning Herald, 11th August 2019 by Bevan Shields tells us that one of the United States most senior military figures has urged President Donald Trump to develop a new plan to deal with the rise of China and praised Australia for its "refreshing" national debate about the dangers of Beijing's expansion.

Admiral Scott Swift commander of the US Pacific Fleet from 2015 - 2018 said America lacked a "good strategy" to respond to the emerging superpower, but warned placing too much focus on military options increased the risk of confrontation.

In an interview ahead of his flight to Australia for a security summit in Perth, Admiral Swift also told the SMH and The Age that stinging criticism of China by Liberal MP Andrew Hastie -
"should be taken seriously."

Mr Hastie's comments sparked a furious rebuke from China and divided senior Morrison government ministers.

Mr Hastie's claims seem to be that China does pose a threat
to Australia and his belief that the world's approach to containing Beijing is similar to the failure to stop Nazi Germany.

Is the comparison with Germany a valid one?

Was Mr Hastie right to "ring the bell?"

Or should these views be brushed aside?

Should our government have a new plan to deal with China?
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 3:04:55 PM
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ask Hong Kong
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 4:58:54 PM
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runner,

I'm asking you.
Posted by Foxy, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 5:12:36 PM
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Dear Foxy,

I have being trying to ring the bell for the past ten years but kept getting told I didn't know what I was talking about. I think Andrew Hastie is right to raise the issue with China as being a threat. Just the same as Churchill raised the issue of the rising power of Hitler during the 1930s.

I think China has more similarities to pre-WW2 Japan than it has to Nazi Germany but I think Hastie was probably erring on the safe side of geopolitics in comparing China to Nazi Germany rather than Japan.

I think it's too late for Australia. I think we need to learn how to live as a people with a Chinese future.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 5:32:51 PM
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Foxy time is coming they will have no choice
China while a good trading partner is getting aggressive and we stand to suffer
They use trade much like Trump, eg our coal stalled at the docks
Posted by Belly, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 6:14:09 PM
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Hong Kong is a typical example of a Western society without discipline !
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 13 August 2019 6:59:42 PM
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Whether one ought to ever worry at all is a broad and deep question,
but if one is to worry about anything, then the expansionist trait of communist China should definitely be on their list.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 1:11:09 AM
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Individual Hong Kong protesters are fighting for freedom
They risk everything for it
Not even a chance they can win in the long run, but they have every right to try
Taiwan too is under pressure and the same fate awaits them
When China focuses on us, will you claim we are undisciplined
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 5:35:30 AM
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Is this becoming a new cold war? - Absolutely.

China is becoming more authoritarian and controlling to the point where the amount of money its spends monitoring the minutest details of every person's life is 1.3 x as much as it spends on its military.

China is becoming more aggressive and interfering in other countries, and this needs to be countered.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 8:14:27 AM
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Another pointless question. Of course we have to worry about China!
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 9:09:24 AM
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Dear ttbn,

Can you elaborate instead of leaving us in the dark trying to put together the ending for ourselves?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 10:00:07 AM
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A week ago we had the US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo
visiting us and China was on the agenda. The big story
was about us having missiles in Darwin. There were messages
about the preparedness of the US to escalate strategic
tensions in the Asia Pacific region and the
willingness to drop Australia right into the
heightened diplomatic tensions with
Beijing by clearly exhorting Australia to back Washington's
stance against China.

Then we all read about the alarming China related stories
erupting the upgrading of US/China trade-tensions into a
currency war and on top of that an increasingly ugly
situation in Hong Kong - with an escalation of aggressive
warnings to protestors this week by Beijing.
Which seems to make the prospect of a significant
crackdown there now very likely.

We now appear to be facing a very real increase in strategic
and economic tensions with events unfolding.

Does Australia have an independent view?

What role does Chinese money and Australia's security play in
all of this?
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 10:59:04 AM
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I've just come across the following link which
may be useful:

http://nsc.crawford.anu.edu.au/department-news/9880/chinese-money-and-australias-security
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:23:13 AM
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Everyone has an opinion, some of us consume other opinions and even adopt them
It hurts to see a comment like ttbn,s
Yet we all must understand China is as described by Shadow Minister
Have no doubt, China threatens the western world
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 11:59:28 AM
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Dear Foxy,

Chamberlain had a piece a paper from Adolf Hitler to show folks back home that there would be peace in their time. We can't predict the future but we should let our knowledge of history guide us towards better ends instead of following those who keep saying things like 'Don't worry. It'll be alright. You're worrying about nothing.'

When it comes to China the warning signs are everywhere and as you reminded us somewhere else Napoleon was astute enough to recognise it over two hundred years ago. Unfortunately for Australia it's too late and I reckon Australia definitely has a Chinese future.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 12:11:29 PM
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The parallels between China and Germany aren't perfect but good enough. A powerful totalitarian state with a burning desire to right what is sees as the wrongs perpetrated against it by history. A state which believes it and its people are the natural hegemons of the world. A state where all the resources of the state are devoted to the ambitions of its leaders with a massive military build up accompanied by professions of peaceful intentions.

And a massive number of westerners who really want to turn a blind-eye to the bleeding obvious before them in the hopes of buying peace at any price.

Of course there aren't any Jewish pogroms in China although the Uighurs might beg to disagree.

One big difference is that the German leadership believed they had a small window of opportunity to establish their empire before bigger neighbours overwhelmed them. China on the other hand thinks time is on its side. The Germans were wrong. Perhaps the Chinese are as well.

The real worry about China isn't so much its growing power but instead the fragility of its power. The trade war is demonstrating just how precarious China's economy is.
In the past, the Communist Party effectively made a deal with the people. Give us your freedom and we'll give you growing wealth and a return to national pride. If it looks like they can't fulfil their part of the bargain, the people may well reciprocate.
Authoritarians who see their internal power threatened often try to distract the populace via external adventures.

China isn't ready to take on the US yet, but the Party might get to the point where is sees no alternative if it wants to retain its power and wealth.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 1:17:49 PM
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Mr. O,

I don't need to elaborate for you, given your past comments on China. As for other posters, 90% of them are not interested in anything I say, and if they don't bother to educate themselves on China and other threats to Australia, that's not my problem.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 1:50:13 PM
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Australian Chinese relations are characterised by
strong trade bonds. China is Australia's largest
trading partner, while Australia is a leading
source of resources for China.

Australia's key
exports are worth billions and these
are followed by education services, which also rake
in billions from international students. There's
also the reliance on China in the tourism sector.

All this gives Australia more reason than most countries
to hope that US and China can resolve their trade
differences sooner rather than later and that Chinese
authorities move more towards softening their demands.

Our relationship with China has had its ups and downs.
But in 2013 China and Australia agreed to establish a
prime ministerial level dialogue between the two
countries which makes Australia only a handful of
countries to have such a dialogue.

How long this lasts - we shall have to wait and see.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 2:01:26 PM
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I have to confess that I am concerned, very
concerned, about what's happening in Hong Kong.

I would hate to see a Tiananmen Square solution in
Hong Kong.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 2:09:55 PM
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Dear Foxy,

You took the words right out of ScuMo's mouth!
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 2:24:40 PM
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Dear mhaze,

It's good to see you starting to say something that actually makes sense and didn't come out of an ABS book!
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 2:30:20 PM
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Dear Mr Opinion,

That's not possible. Our PM is staying quiet on
these issues at present.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 2:58:11 PM
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Dear Mr Opinion,

What are your objections to the Australian Bureau
of Statistics?
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 3:05:26 PM
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Dear Foxy,

That's not the way I read it. It's about what he doesn't say more than what he says.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 3:06:07 PM
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Dear Foxy,

You asked: What are your objections to the Australian Bureau of Statistics?

I follow a long like of critical thinkers right back to Socrates and I don't have anything against the ABS but when mhaze claims that the ABS is saying only 1 in 20 people in Sydney is Chinese when I am seeing every second person being Chinese in Sydney then I really have to question the basis of the statistics.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 3:12:47 PM
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Still on m hazes side Mr Opinion, quoting this country's office of statistics is never going to be wrong
Foxy I too fear a massive overreaction from China
My heart is with the protestors
But my brain warns they are in very real danger
China regards loss of face important and I dread waking to news they have crossed in to Hong Kong
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 3:15:14 PM
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"Dear Mr Opinion,

What are your objections to the Australian Bureau
of Statistics?"

It has facts that he'd prefer not to know about.

Foxy, I've taken a vow of silence as regard Mr O. I think he has problems and its just cruel to make fun of his silly assertions. After all a man (?) who asserts that he has the ability to count the numbers of Chinese by walking around Chatswood and thereby prove the ABS is wrong as regards their count, while at the same time asserting that he is one of the most educated people in Australia, is someone who has serious issues with reality.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 3:19:55 PM
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Dear Foxy,

In the same token mhaze will tell you that every second person in Sydney is Indian - not Chinese.

Actually he's not far off because Sydney is now looking demographically a lot like Singapore: Chinese, Indian, and Others in that order.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 3:30:59 PM
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Dear mhaze and Mr Opinion,

I'll leave you two to sort things out.

Now back to the topic:

According to the Hong Kong Free Press -
we're told that while China might be exploiting fears
of a bloody "Tiananmen" crackdown on Hong Kong's
protest movement, analysts say the potentially
catastrophic economic and political consequences will
deter Beijing from any overt boots-on-the-ground
intervention.

China's brutal 1989 crackdown on pro-democracy protests
in Beijing's Tiananmen Square resulted in two years of
economic stagnation as the country became an international
pariah.

The fall out from any similar intervention in Hon Kong would
be far more severe according to the Hong Kong Free Press.

They tell us that it would also have a major impact on
Beijing's ambitions to re-unify the mainland with the
democratically governed island of Taiwan.
Posted by Foxy, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 4:07:14 PM
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"In the same token mhaze will tell you that every second person in Sydney is Indian"

Not even close to what I said. Illiterate as well as innumerate. Oh dear!
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 14 August 2019 5:55:03 PM
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This morning the news from overnight stock trading in America is grim
And what if it continues into tomorrow
Even for a week
Trumps dance with China, on again then off threats to put anti free trade tariffs in place
Yes we should be afraid of China
A trade war can do much damage
Too in this morning's press military machines hidden in a sports stadium , ready for that move in to Hong Kong I fear may be near
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 15 August 2019 6:56:19 AM
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To a large extent I agree with Foxy I have no doubt that if China thought that storming Hong Kong was in its interests it would not hesitate.

What is saving Hong Kong at the moment is:
- Hong Kong's well respected banking system which is considered a safe medium for foreigners to invest in China (chinese banks have little to no transparency).
- While HK used to have 20% of China's GDP, it now has only 3%, but the loss of HK will probably push china into a recession.
- China has been pushing the perception that it is capable of running one China with two systems as an effort to bring Taiwan back into the fold. If this collapses, Taiwan can only be reunited by force.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Thursday, 15 August 2019 8:45:19 AM
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Dear Shadow Minister,

The thing that is stopping China from storming Hong Kong is the inevitable international backlash that would affect the flow of trade between China and the West resulting in a massive downturn in the Chinese economy that could just topple the Communist Party from power.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Thursday, 15 August 2019 8:51:42 AM
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Mr Morrison has stated regarding the protestors in
Hong Kong:

"My view is to seek to de-escalate things, to encourage
the Chief Executive of Hong Kong to be listening
carefully to what people are saying in Hong Kong and
work toward a peaceful and calm resolution of what is
a very, very, serious issue."

Asked whether the protestors were showing signs of
terrorism. Mr Morrison said:

"That is not the rhetoric that I would certainly use to
describe those events."

Chinese State Council of Hong Kong and Macau Affairs
Office claimed that the protests had begun to show
signs of "terrorism."

We'll have to wait and see what happens next.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 15 August 2019 11:06:31 AM
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Here is a link on our Prime Minister's stance
regarding the Hong Kong protests taken from the
Australian Financial Review:

http://afr.com/politics/federal/hong-kong-protests-not-terrorism-pm-20190813-p52gjm
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 15 August 2019 11:44:19 AM
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Just saw a satellite picture in the News about security forces building up near Hong Kong.
I can't blame the Chinese Govt getting pretty browned-off for others meddling in such a manner in their affairs.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 15 August 2019 12:50:16 PM
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Individual,

Hong Kong is trying to protect their own rights
and the retention of their way of life.

China is waving the big stick.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 15 August 2019 5:34:06 PM
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cont'd ...

The small population of Hong Hong is
threatening the massive population of China?

China is sending in their military, their police
and whatever else - who knows? Against a few
thousand protesters on an island?

Doesn't sound fair to me - unless what you mean is
the damage that China is doing to its reputation
by the treatment of the protesters.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 15 August 2019 5:38:17 PM
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Ha, what I see in the local shopping centre is that every Chinese is
pushing a stroller.
Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 15 August 2019 5:38:41 PM
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Bazz,

Here's a link that explains the effect that protesters
are having on Hong Kong and how safe the place is:

http://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/hong-kong-tourism-protests-intl-hnk/index.html
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 15 August 2019 5:53:42 PM
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Hey individual,
This video was released a few days back.
China's Armed Police Force stations in south China's Shenzhen
http://youtu.be/bKjTmJM5tdU

Hey Foxy,
You're so gullible sometimes
http://www.globalresearch.ca/american-government-ngos-fuel-fund-hong-kong-anti-extradition-protests/5680581
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 15 August 2019 6:15:48 PM
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The small population of Hong Hong is
threatening the massive population of China?
Foxy,
Yes, I can see that, cant you ? Not an immediate move, insidiously gradual, just like it was done to our society ! It didn't happen overnight but it did happen.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 15 August 2019 6:32:27 PM
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Individual,

Could you please explain who you think is
threatening whom?

Are you under the impression that it's China
who's being threatened?

Because you made the statement that -

"I can't blame the Chinese government getting
pretty browned-off for others meddling in such
a manner in their affairs."
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 15 August 2019 9:37:20 PM
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Foxy,
China's future hangs in the balance by the insidious PC. They've seen what it did to the West & they'll do everything possible to stop it radiating from Hong Kong !
Hong Kong is poised to be to China what PC has become to us, the enemy within !
Posted by individual, Thursday, 15 August 2019 10:05:31 PM
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Hey Foxy,

I want you to try an expand your mind a little bit and try and understand this concept.

Democracy itself can be the enemy.
Democracy can be weaponised and used against the interests of the people.
You've got to think bigger than nationalism.
You've got to think about 'global governance'.

I want you to try and think of a scenario or pros and cons where a dictator would be better than democracy:

A dictator would never sell off national assets (lands, roads, public transport, energy, ports, communications) to foreigners.

It's only under 'democracy' that greedy bankers, capitalists and multi national companies can rob a nation people of these things they built for themselves.

Democracy has been weaponised to remove any semblance of ownership of our own nation to us;
To where others dictate our future and we're just insignificant and are told how to think and act according to their design.

The hardest part of all to get, is that yourself and many others are victims of a society that is largely socially engineered propaganda.
What you don't understand is your liberal values are making the whole planet a prison for everyone.

You're logic tells you there's nothing better than democracy;
Of the people deciding for themselves.

But in truth we're not deciding anything, left or right don't matter.
They are playing both sides against the middle and in the chaos, continually shifting the goalposts with the narrative always 2 steps to the left;
Towards globalism.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Thursday, 15 August 2019 10:55:16 PM
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indy old mate do you ruly support a communist government
And too think Democracy protesters are trouble makers
Any day, any time, we may see that country invade Hong Kong
I can not see why any commentator could support China
Posted by Belly, Friday, 16 August 2019 5:44:16 AM
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indy old mate do you ruly support a communist government
Belly,
NO !
There can't be a perfect Govt without perfect constituents ! What we call democracy is in fact a Dictatorship, not a single Dictator though but minority groups !
I"d like to see people come to their senses & support their Nation instead of bringing it down.
People need to accept that their demands can not be greater than their contribution. That applies for those in Authority also. The one & only reason bureaucrats get away with their exploitations is because we don't have a national Service that makes people think & act accordingly !
Posted by individual, Friday, 16 August 2019 6:16:07 AM
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Individual,

As I understand it all Hong Kong wants is for
China to keep its agreement of two different
systems - that it originally signed up when
Britain handed Hong Kong back to China.

From memory that agreement expires in another
several decades as mentioned in the news recently.

Now China is gradually eroding that agreement
and the people in Hong Kong rose up in protest.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 16 August 2019 11:04:27 AM
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indy in truth I just do not understand you
Any form of dictatorship, including communism is my enemy
Posted by Belly, Friday, 16 August 2019 11:07:28 AM
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AC,

Every group of people who have a culture, a tradition,
a language, that has evolved over many centuries wants
to maintain what is their essence. Any invader or
opposing ideology is usually rejected.

China wants to absorb and destroy and impose their own
doctrine by force that is alien to those that are being
affected.

All we have to do is look at the past history of this planet
the wars, the invasions, social and economic destruction,
the elimination of masses of people and cultures. That is
what is witnessed in part with China. We have had
historical examples from the beginning of time.

You can't blame the people in Hong Kong's behaviour on
political correctness.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 16 August 2019 11:14:14 AM
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cont'd ...

Look what happened in Tibet, and the occupied
Western Regions of China. Hong Kong today,
Taiwan tomorrow? The Pacific Islands?
And so on.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 16 August 2019 11:16:29 AM
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I think that for now it’s not worth worrying, in the near future there will definitely not be anything, but in the long run it will be a huge problem for the entire population of the earth.
Posted by Shirik, Friday, 16 August 2019 5:32:35 PM
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Any form of dictatorship, including communism is my enemy
Belly,
Well, if I had to choose I'd much rather have a benevolent Dictator than a corrupt Democratic Govt !
Posted by individual, Friday, 16 August 2019 5:57:17 PM
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Individual,

Are you referring to China as "benevalent?"
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 16 August 2019 6:19:22 PM
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indy yet again you say something most would think weird
Communism enslaves the people
And to our new poster [to me at least] now is the time to prepare for that future China
Welcome and hope to see more from you
Posted by Belly, Friday, 16 August 2019 6:48:53 PM
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I think it's just about impossible to understand how to rule over a Billion people. We have problems with a population that is smaller then the number of military personnel of our closest neighbour.
It's got me bamboozled how countries can have so much population when there's so much apparent poverty ! Communism sounds bad to some who are lucky enough to live in wealthy Western Nations but could so-called Democracy actually work with such massive populations ?
I'm not a Communist, nor a Socialist nor whatever one can be called. I'm just for a harmonious society that rewards effort.
Whatever that makes me is what I am.
Posted by individual, Friday, 16 August 2019 8:29:55 PM
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Overnight clearly China has threatened the protesters
We can ignore it if we like but this country turned its troops on to its own people once before, that we know about
Protesters have the support of most who want freedom
But reality shouts, a warning, they may very well be cutting the tree branch they sit on out from under them selves
Indy, mate, I think of the blood that may be spilled and can not understand your opinion
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 17 August 2019 5:49:27 AM
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Belly,
I understand that you don't understand but you really should consider the fact that Australian thinking & mentality simply is incompatible with that of millennia old civilisations. It's literally impossible to get such old mentalities to adapt a non-culture based way of thinking of simply on money & profit !
How long do you think the money-profit economies will be sustainable for before they collapse just like Hong Kong now ? After all, IT IS all about money ! They're not protesting about their idealism, they're protesting to maintain their WESTERN money-profit culture ! This western culture is about quick profit, not long-term investment & planning. It is a very complex a situation made even more complex by greed !
Posted by individual, Saturday, 17 August 2019 8:39:33 AM
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China has a massive diaspora spread across the Pacific (with 1.2 million in Australia),and China is very interested in the capacity to use these people to further her power and her interests
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 17 August 2019 9:24:40 AM
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I read a very interesting article written way
back in 2014 by Barclay Bram Shoemaker, that I
think is very relevant today. Ahoemaker pointed
out that whether or not Hongkongers will achieve
their aims and what effect this will have on the
mainland even in the long term was uncertain.

He asked that this however begs the question on
whether or not the mainland SHOULD become a democracy?

Shoemaker points out that democracy is superior to
authoritarianism in many ways. Aside from giving every
citizen a voice it is incomparably more stable.
Evidence for which can be seen by the amount of money
pouring into the UK, US, and Australia from China, Russia,
and the Middle East.

The two most common arguments against Chinese democracy
(re-its large population, and its culture being incompatible
with democracy) ring hollow.

India is comparably large and is one of the world's most
robust democracies and those who claim Chinese culture is
somehow incompatible with democracy overlook Taiwan.

However Shoemaker admits that if you look at the present
record of this century's new democracies the picture is not
a rosy one.

Russia nominally democratic recently annexed Crimea. Other
central Asian nations such as Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan,
who protestors looked to so hopefully more than 25 years
ago from Tiananmen, are nightmares. Iraq which the US
spent trillions democratizing is a basket case. The Arab
Spring, the great hope for democratizers the world over
has in reality been the greatest advertisement for the
longevity of the CCP.

All in all the conclusion seems to be that the river of
democracy might eventually flow into the mainland of China -
but for it to succeed it's institutions need to change.
And it won't happen any time soon.

There's more at the following link:

http://thediplomat.com/2014/11/is-china-incompatible-with-democracy/
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 17 August 2019 11:01:25 AM
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What utter rubbish!
The claim one point was it five? million Chinese Live here
NEVER ever read that authors trash comments again
Indy the bleeding people of Hong Kong are Chinese
You clutch my friend at straws
Every human as a birthright should have freedom
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 17 August 2019 11:48:31 AM
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Democracy is good if you're the one enjoying it ! Being on the side of the exploited is a different story, a story we don't get to hear much about.
1000000000 divided by 25000000=40. Ok, now multiply the Australian crime & other statistics by 40 & then think what the world would be like with as many Australians as Chinese !
Scary eh ?
Posted by individual, Saturday, 17 August 2019 12:12:26 PM
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Best let it drop indy noway you will ever convince me your view makes sense on this issue
In fact as China will be our enemy if not soon in the next decade I am stunned at you thought pattern
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 17 August 2019 3:46:56 PM
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Democracies are not perfect. People in modern
societies don't have the time to educate themselves
on every topic or policy and can easily be manipulated
slogans. The rise of right wing populist parties in
Europe and Donald Trump (I'm going to make America
Great Again) demonstrate this well.

However we need to ask ourselves regarding China -
would we really be happy living in a society where
human rights did not matter, where there was no freedom
of speech or open political dialogue. Where human rights
defenders were jailed. Where the internet becomes a
spying tool, where minorities are persecuted. Where
one is sent for "re-education" if your views differ
from what the party line is.

We must not lose the clash of ideas against authoritarianism.
A democracy is intrinsically better than an autocracy or
an oligarchy. Russia is a good example of this. It's pretty
much run by a political boss and a corrupt hell hole if
you compare it to the West.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 17 August 2019 5:15:24 PM
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The 2016 Census revealed that there are 1.2 million Chinese living in Australia.
Posted by ttbn, Saturday, 17 August 2019 5:50:51 PM
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We should take comfort in the knowledge that
China's attempt to encroach in Hong Kong has
had relative little success so far with young
people who've grown up with western influences
continuing to resist.

So too any attempt by China to dictate to Australia
would find even greater resistance from our
population.

As for our current concentration of Chinese in certain
areas of our cities - that is the normal process of
migrants and people of other cultures seeking comfort
in familiar surroundings. But eventually as we've
experienced - their children and grand-children end up
merging into the broader society.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 17 August 2019 6:03:51 PM
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cont'd ...

1,213.903 million Chinese - as of the 2016 Census,
is only 5.6% of our population.

Should that worry us?
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 17 August 2019 6:52:53 PM
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Should that worry us?
Foxy,
I recall Europeans saying the same about the first few Muslims.
What many Europeans/Caucasians should but don't ask themselves, do you want to forfeit your own way of life so you don't need to make a tough decision ? How generous a welfare system for the caucasian population you think another culture would run in Australia once it has the upper hand ?
Posted by individual, Saturday, 17 August 2019 7:14:15 PM
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Individual,

With an aging population we especially need people
who are willing to work, pay taxes, and contribute
to society. And as far as I know - most
migrants who settle in this country have done that
and continue to do that.

Even farmers complain that they can't find enough
local workers to do the work - they have to rely
on migrant workers.

BTW - my medical specialists are a mix of Chinese,
Indian, and Persian. All are highly skilled and
very professional.
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 17 August 2019 7:24:54 PM
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Foxy,
I agree with all you say in the last post. I also agree confidently with myself that, once the demographic is weighed towards any one culture, is when the changes take place. If the China of the recent past & today is anything to go by then it is hard for us Westerners not to be impressed. Look at their infrastructure ? Magnificent roads, bridges tourist attractions etc.
On the other hand did they build it all for outsiders to enjoy or simply to keep their own on-side ?
I see the Fijian PM has already succumbed to their offerings & I wonder how long before NZ joins the bandwagon. I must admit China is brilliant at dangling attractive lures.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 18 August 2019 7:05:59 AM
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Individual,

I think that our PM has made it quite clear where
Australia stands on China. We are standing by our
values and sovereignty. He is asking for calm
negotiations and the rule of law prevail. He is
asking for the avoidance of confrontation. I
think that is the right approach. China cannot
throw its weight around and expect no reaction.
I needs to keep its promise to Hong Kong. It needs
to also show the West that it can be trusted.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 18 August 2019 10:07:25 AM
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Dear Foxy,

I thought there were a lot more Chinese than that going on what I see around Sydney where it looks like every second person is Chinese but if that's all there is than I reckon we can easily bring in another 5 million at least. In fact why not make it another ten million, after all Australia is a big country.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 18 August 2019 12:00:32 PM
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Mr Opinionated,

Such a sweet child, if a bit woolly-headed.

When you 'see' Chinese, are you aware that you're 'seeing' Chinese from Malaysia, Indonesia, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Thailand, etc.; AND Koreans, Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese, Filipino, Mongolia (yes, I was chatting to a Mongolian Mormon a few weeks back, nice bloke), Central Asia, etc., and Australian-born members of all of those ethnic groups ?

People that you see on the streets: students, visitors, tourists - i.e. people who are not inside the air-conditioned towers pretending to work, or in cars sealed off from the great unwashed ? i.e. people who use the streets more than average ?

Muslims make up, what ? 2 % of the population ? Chinese, i.e. Chinese Chinese, who make up, what ? another 1 % ?

Get a grip, you blokes.

Joe
Posted by Loudmouth, Sunday, 18 August 2019 12:11:09 PM
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Dear Loudmouth,

So what do you reckon? we should bring in another ten million Chinese?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 18 August 2019 12:16:07 PM
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Checked under my bed Mr O bloke said he was Malaysian but the buggers lie
See if he can cook if he cook good Chinese he can stay
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 18 August 2019 12:19:30 PM
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Dear Mr Opinion,

On our current immigrant intake the government
decides - what we need. There are certain
restrictions, and certain criteria that has to be
met. At present I believe that the intake is
based on skilled labour and the balance seems to be
right.

Perhaps what you're seeing are tourists. Which I
think is good for our economy.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 18 August 2019 12:51:03 PM
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Dear Foxy,

The government brings in cashed up Chinese to keep the economy afloat. It is one of the mainstays of Scumo's economic policy.

What I'm saying is that if people like mhaze don't think there are many Chinese in Australia and having a lot of Chinese in the country doesn't matter then why not bring in another five to ten million.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 18 August 2019 12:59:13 PM
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Dear Mr Opinion,

I realise what you are trying to say.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 18 August 2019 1:10:19 PM
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Dear Foxy,

Just don't let on to mhaze.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 18 August 2019 1:37:15 PM
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Dear Mr Opinion,

mhaze is a very intuitive man.
Just like you. :-)
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 18 August 2019 2:10:02 PM
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Dear Foxy,

mhaze is the exact opposite to me and he will tell you that himself.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 18 August 2019 3:14:50 PM
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Mr O turns out he is an old wrinkly Aussie, not sure how to find a Chinese cook but still trying
Posted by Belly, Sunday, 18 August 2019 4:56:29 PM
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The China threat raised its ugly head again at last week's Pacific Island Forum when Fiji's bellicose Prime Minister announced that " China never insults us', inferring that Australia does insult the Pacific because Scott Morrison failed to fall into a heap over demands that we 'do more' about climate change, including getting rid of coal.

PM Bainimarama said nothing about the fact that the Chinese - who were delighted by his petulant comment - are huge users of Australian coal, and non-stop builders of coal-powered power stations.

If the Fijian PM is not clever enough to realise that, if Australia ceased to exist, it would not make one iota of difference to climate change, then he is not clever enough to know what will happen to his country and others in the Pacific if they fall into the hands of China, who will make undeliverable promises to gain power in the Pacific.

This won't be the last attempt at blackmail with the threat of China behind it. Morrison strongly responded by saying that his duty was to Australia; he must never be allowed to forget that.

As is to be expected, the Opposition reaction to the blackmail attempt was pure virtue-signalling and anti-government, rather than a stand for their country.
Posted by ttbn, Sunday, 18 August 2019 4:58:04 PM
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I watched Penny Wong on the Insiders program
this morning. She said that China will press for
its interests and China will continue to expand its
its influence in the region.

The full transcript of the program can be seen here:

http://abc.net.au/insider/penny-wong-joins-insiders/11425356
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 18 August 2019 5:32:25 PM
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Dear ttbn,

I very was disappointed when ScuMo didn't pull a piece of coal from his pocket in front of the Pacific Island leaders and said 'Look at it! Look at it! Touch it! Touch it! It's only coal. Nothing to be afraid of, it won't hurt you.'
Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 18 August 2019 5:43:11 PM
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Dear Belly,

Obviously I can't keep anything hidden from you people; you have picked me to a tee.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 18 August 2019 5:57:15 PM
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Sorry for the typo.

Here's the link again:

http://abc.net.au/insiders/penny-wong-joins-insiders/11425356
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 18 August 2019 6:08:36 PM
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are huge users of Australian coal, and non-stop builders of coal-powered power stations.
ttbn,
Apparently, Australian activities cause sea level to rise, China's don't, according to Fiji's PM.
I wonder what the Pacific Nations are doing for their energy needs to combat climate change ?
Perhaps if Australians were so nice as the Chinese, sea level would not rise ? Come on Aussies be nice !
Posted by individual, Sunday, 18 August 2019 6:20:16 PM
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Dear individual,

Show 'em the coal! Show 'em the coal! Tell 'em it won't hurt 'em. Tell 'em ScuMo said so.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Sunday, 18 August 2019 6:53:22 PM
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I wonder what the Pacific Nations are doing for their energy needs to combat climate change ?
Mr Opinion,
You missed this question, so here it is again.
Posted by individual, Sunday, 18 August 2019 7:14:07 PM
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If seal is indeed rising, how much has it risen by ? Some of those thousand year old Roman wharfes/jetties should be easily measured.
What are the figures on the rate of Islands subsiding ?
Perhaps if it was all the additional weight of Indians taking over Fiji that makes the islands gradually sink ?
Posted by individual, Sunday, 18 August 2019 10:44:14 PM
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seal ? oops, sea level ..
Posted by individual, Monday, 19 August 2019 7:00:41 AM
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indy the evidence is there, we know sea levels have risen
This morning [back on subject]China has warned us, keep out of their concerns
Others have warned us, to focus our defense on the Pacific ocean not the middle east
The Pacific Islands tell us China Respects them not us
Anyone still think we should not worry about China
Posted by Belly, Monday, 19 August 2019 7:23:05 AM
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Another group we should be worried about is our own government. Morrison has not come out with any official statement about the China threat - unlike his predecessor. How weak does that make Morrison! He can't even emulate Turnbull. And the Opposition is useless. Yes. We should be very worried about China. We should also be worried about Australian politicians, the only people who can deal with the China threat. Will they do so? So far the answer is probably not.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 19 August 2019 8:26:22 AM
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According to The Sydney Morning Herald,
18th August 2019, China's ambassador to Australia
has warned the Morrison Government not to intervene
in its affairs by supporting the "violent radicals"
in Hong Kong as diplomatic tensions escalate across
the region.

Ambassador Cheng Jingye told The Sydney Morning Herald
and The Age that the affairs of Hong Kong were "solely
the internal affairs of China" warning that any effort
to "mess up"the former British outpost was doomed to
fail as pro-democracy protestors there again gathered
en masse on Sunday.

The intervention follows escalating rhetoric between
Canberra and Beijing after Prime Minister Scott Morrison
urged Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam to - "Listen
carefully"and work towards a peaceful resolution.

The Chinese ambassador has re-assured Mr Morrison that
China intends to keep its " One country, two systems,"
agreement regarding Hong Kong.

Personally I feel that Mr Morrison is taking the right
approach at present. He is asking for calm and peaceful
negotiations, while at the same time he is not agreeing
with the use of the rhetoric like "terrorism" that China
is using to describe the protestors. Morrison is standing
by Australia's interests and values. He is making our
position clear.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 19 August 2019 11:36:05 AM
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Further to my list telling why we should be concerned
Chinese government is putting pressure on its people living here
Students here are being spied on by their government
Too protests , both for and against the actions in Hong Kong, are finding both for and against supporters even being a little violent to each other here
China is a danger to Democratic Countries,using trade and even hacking, to try to influence how we think
Posted by Belly, Monday, 19 August 2019 1:45:11 PM
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Dear Belly,

I've got to admit that I was somewhat surprised
by the pro China protestors here in Australia.
But what you say makes sense. They are probably
students here who are being influenced by China.
It has to be made clear to them that violent
demonstrations will not be tolerated here.
Although I guess we can't object to their protesting
as long as their protests are peaceful.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 19 August 2019 1:52:14 PM
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Individual, if I remember correctly the sea rise in the last
hundred years was about 10 cm. The tide marks at Ft Denison and Pt Arthur
are NOT covered up. The whole sea level rise was BS.
Sixty percent of the Islands are bigger. Very few are smaller.

Anyway it looks like the story is changing, with more emphases on
sunspot counts. I predict that the IPCC story will gradually change.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 19 August 2019 1:54:29 PM
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Dear Bazz,

Are you a scientist?
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 19 August 2019 2:12:01 PM
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Dear Foxy,

ScuMo is no Churchill. A Neville Chamberlain yes. But definitely no Churchill.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 19 August 2019 2:14:21 PM
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Opin, no I am not a scientist, are you ?
If so you have no monopoly on opinion.
Do not underestimate the reasoning ability of others.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 19 August 2019 2:46:54 PM
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Foxy you might remember that demo in Canberra when someone appeared,
was it the Dali Lama ? Someone equally disturbing to Peking.
The Chinese embassy hired buses to get the pro Peiping anti protestors to Canberra.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 19 August 2019 2:51:00 PM
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Dear Bazz,

Environmental sociologist. I'm a scholar, not a scientist.

I follow what the scientific community is saying in order to supplement my own research.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 19 August 2019 3:04:25 PM
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Dear Bazz,

I don't recall the Dalai Lama incident.
However it does sound like the type of thing
China would do. As Penny Wong said on the
Insiders program. - China will continue to
do what it does. We have to stay strong
according to our own values.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 19 August 2019 3:22:32 PM
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Bazz and I Mr Opinion share a hobby that focus on sunspots more than most
But not sure what he is saying here
We are in a low activity time, affecting our hobby ham radio
Not seeing any improvement [more sun spots] for about five years
Cycles are ABOUT eleven years but varie, can be up to 16 years
Posted by Belly, Monday, 19 August 2019 4:02:18 PM
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China’s Special Envoy to the Pacific, Ambassador Wang Xuefeng, told the Pacific Island Forum in Tuvalu today that “no matter how the international situation evolves, China will always be a good friend, partner and brother of Pacific Island countries”.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 19 August 2019 4:16:10 PM
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Belly,
You were totally wrong, ttbn was right, there are 1.2 million Chinese in Aus. Why don't you admit it?

According to Bazz the Seas have risen 10 cm in the last hundred years. That is 4 inches in old measurement, so we will all drown in another couple of thousand years. I can't see any change at Circular Quay.

No wonder practical people like myself say bull when warmists talk about human driven climate change. Its about time you religious nuts got some reality
Posted by HenryL, Monday, 19 August 2019 4:28:45 PM
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Dear HenryL.,

NASA as far as I'm aware is not a religious nut.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 19 August 2019 4:31:22 PM
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Money is more powerful than conviction & principle as has just been highlighted again, this time by an ex Pacific Island leader.
If this ex PM is so worried about his islands becoming awash then why doesn't he say by how much the sea level will go down if Australia stops using coal but China doesn't ?
How much has it risen since he was in power ?
Posted by individual, Monday, 19 August 2019 4:51:33 PM
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NASA as far as I'm aware is not a religious nut.
Foxy,
No, but what are they doing to curb emission & GW ?
Posted by individual, Monday, 19 August 2019 4:55:05 PM
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Individual,

You can either Google or read the links I've provided.

Happy researching.
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 19 August 2019 5:19:09 PM
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Australia has a Chinese future. China will keep encroaching on territory gobbling up small countries in the Indo-Pacific under a system of economic dependency and eventually declaring Australia part of its sphere of control. It's inevitable. People who think otherwise are just deluding themselves.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 19 August 2019 5:42:10 PM
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Foxy,
There is still no proof that humans are responsible for climate change and continental drift is still happening, volcanoes are still erupting and earthquakes happen, tides rise and fall and the wind blows. Don't forget we still cannot make it rain either.

There are lots of things we have no control over. What makes anyone think we have control over the climate. Where is the proof?

Mother nature does what she wants, when she wants.
Posted by HenryL, Monday, 19 August 2019 5:44:01 PM
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Dear HenryL,

Of course there is proof of anthropogenic global warming. It's just a matter that you and people like you don't have the skills and knowledge to understand what has been happening over the past 260 years.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 19 August 2019 6:07:44 PM
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MR Google says;
sediment of the rivers contributes to a rise in sea level of 15 µm per year, or 1.5 mm per century.

Individual says;
Add to this several billion tonnes of displacement from shipping & China's artificial islands etc. & you get a substantial rise in sea level.

The Pacific Islanders should work on stopping erosion of their islands instead of worrying about Evil # 2 , Australian emission.
Posted by individual, Monday, 19 August 2019 6:22:08 PM
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Dear individual,

This topic is actually about China, not the crackpot science developed by ignorant people who cannot understand anthropogenic global warming.
Posted by Mr Opinion, Monday, 19 August 2019 6:30:28 PM
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Dear HenryL.,

I am not going to argue with you about
global warming or climate change.

All I can do is politely suggest you have
a read of the following link (or not):

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/
Posted by Foxy, Monday, 19 August 2019 7:59:14 PM
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This topic is actually about China, not the crackpot science developed by ignorant people
Mr Opinion,
The Crackpots are those who can't see the connection between China AND it's impact on GW AND sea level & it's growing influence among some Pacific Islands.
So, the topic is about China & all it influences !
Posted by individual, Monday, 19 August 2019 8:17:03 PM
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Has anyone seen the Chinese Police Cars in Australia ?
Reported on TV tonight. No English on them just Mandarin characters.
Trying to put fear into the demonstrators ?
Is it fake news ? maybe.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 20 August 2019 10:53:42 PM
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Bazz sorry but thanks, that fake news thing, hugely funny
YES saw them two at least, on TV news and in the press
Fake fake news?
Posted by Belly, Wednesday, 21 August 2019 6:19:57 AM
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China will enter Hong Kong, driven by protesters that are not going away
Maybe China is behind the protesters
One thing for sure yesterdays actions by protesters work against their stated wants and wishes
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 22 August 2019 6:27:16 AM
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Dear Belly,

As Penny Wong told us - China will do what China
will do. However, we have to consider what position
we're going to take once she does it. So far our
PM has been treading very carefully. Which has been
the right approach.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 22 August 2019 10:59:27 AM
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Yes truth is Foxy both sides must tread carefully and avoid conflict if we can
That very reason drives my concern the protesters are going too far
Posted by Belly, Thursday, 22 August 2019 11:59:01 AM
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Posted by promise life funeral insurance, Friday, 23 August 2019 5:59:33 PM
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Oh, Oh, looks like we've got a scammer on our
discussion here. Big mistake.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 23 August 2019 7:11:21 PM
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To the fool who posted that
*your product if it needs to spam us is not worth considering*
Posted by Belly, Saturday, 24 August 2019 5:46:37 AM
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