As a growing number of people start to fret that Western Civilisation is under threat both internally and externally, some have been looking back at its history to seek to get answers as to how to proceed. There is also a view that at least some of the problem is that the glories of western civilisation and its unrivalled contribution to human progress aren't well understood by current generations since it is no longer taught or studied.

It is widely accepted that the West originated in 5th century Hellas (Greece). From that, a war that was fought to fend off a civilisation killing invasion has become an iconic symbol of the resilience of the West and a marker for the beginning of the West. 19th century historian Edward Creasy opined that "The battle of Marathon, even as an event in English history, is more important than the battle of Hastings."

Recently Brad Schaeffer had a series of articles covering the history of the Persian Wars. While necessarily condensed, its a reasonable summary and, I thought, something that might be of value to the members here....

Introduction - http://www.dailywire.com/news/45338/schaeffer-greco-persian-wars-introduction-war-brad-schaeffer

Part 1 - http://www.dailywire.com/news/45339/schaeffer-greco-persian-wars-part-one-athens-makes-brad-schaeffer

Part 2 - http://www.dailywire.com/news/45356/schaeffer-greco-persian-wars-part-two-march-brad-schaeffer

Part 3 - http://www.dailywire.com/news/45357/schaeffer-greco-persian-wars-part-three-forlorn-brad-schaeffer

Part 4 - http://www.dailywire.com/news/45413/schaeffer-greco-persian-wars-part-four-treachery-brad-schaeffer

Part 5 - http://www.dailywire.com/news/45414/schaeffer-greco-persian-wars-part-five-destruction-brad-schaeffer

Part 6 - http://www.dailywire.com/news/45466/schaeffer-greco-persian-wars-part-six-fight-brad-schaeffer

Part 7 - http://www.dailywire.com/news/45467/schaeffer-greco-persian-wars-part-seven-great-brad-schaeffer

Conclusion - http://www.dailywire.com/news/45469/schaeffer-greco-persian-wars-conclusion-aftermath-brad-schaeffer

Dear mhaze,

Aww mate, I'm feeling a bit sorry for you.

Okay, setting aside the fact this was another bash the muzzies sad attempt by you, we can have a conversation about it if you like.

I went to the Wikipedia page to see who started it and found this;

"The first Persian invasion was a response to Athenian involvement in the Ionian Revolt, when Athens and Eretria had sent a force to support the cities of Ionia in their attempt to overthrow Persian rule. The Athenians and Eretrians had succeeded in capturing and burning Sardis, but they were then forced to retreat with heavy losses."

Any comment?

To mhaze- Good post. I look forward to viewing the links. Thanks.

"I'm feeling a bit sorry for you. "

Why? Although, I was a little (but just a little) surprised that so few seemed interested in even a heavily summarised history of this vital period in Western culture. I'm on another group on Yahoo where we're up to 500 posts and several members have decided to read further eg Herodotus.

"....to see who started it... "

Well, it depends on where and how far back you go. Its certainly true that Athens participated in the revolt of the Ionian Greek states in Asia Minor against the Persian overlords. There are several reasons for Athens offering help:

1) the Ionian Hellenes were racially related to Athens. Its a difficult concept to understand from this distance, but these racial bonds were very important to the Greeks and were often used to invoke fraternal help. The ties went very deep. For example the ancient city of Massalia (Marseilles) was found by people who were related to Athens and even over those vast distances maintained fraternal ties with the original mother country. Equally Syracuse was able to call on help from its mother state, Corinth, when it needed help in 415BC.

2) Persia was an aggressively expanding state and it's probable that Athens adopted the view that it's better to fight them over there than over here. The Persian imperial philosophy was continued expansion based on the use of previously conquered nation's wealth and manpower. No one, least of all the Persians expected the Mede to stop at the shores of the Ionian Sea.

3) Athens had recently created the contours of their democracy. Much like France in 1789, they appeared to be anxious to encourage their allies to adopt the benefits of democracy.

"another bash the muzzies sad attempt "

All this occurred more than 1000 years before the rise of Islam. Good to see that your historical knowledge is up to (or down to) its usual levels.

Dear mhaze,

You write;

“All this occurred more than 1000 years before the rise of Islam. Good to see that your historical knowledge is up to (or down to) its usual levels.”

My historical knowledge is fine, I also recognise this “Western Civilisation is under threat both internally and externally, some have been looking back at its history to seek to get answers as to how to proceed” along with this “a war that was fought to fend off a civilisation killing invasion has become an iconic symbol of the resilience of the West” is just another thinly disguised call to arms .

But perhaps I am wrong. Pray tell what internal and external 'civilisation killing' threats to Western civilisation do you think are at play and where would a 'civilisation killing' invasion most likely come from? I you provide a believable answer I am happy to withdraw my assessment.

"My historical knowledge is fine, "

Yes I've noticed how your historic knowledge is pathetic 4.3 nanoseconds before and 4.3 nanoseconds after I've given the historic data.

This is nothing about a call to arms or whatever idiocy you've misunderstood it to be about.

The victory of the Hellenes was about a victory of one freedom loving society over another freedom crushing society. It was about the victory one society which was learning the wonders of art and philosophy and free expression over another that was antithetical to those ideas. It was about one society that was starting a journey toward democracy over a society that had no notion of such a thing. It was about the victory one society that was about to usher in a true golden age of learning and create a civilisation that survives to today over a society that was already stagnating and was to last a mere 150 years hence.

Thinking it is a story just about war utterly misunderstands the era. Sure at the end of the day, swords have to be pulled and blood spilled, but that's not even close to the whole story.