http://www.9news.com.au/2019/03/24/15/50/news-melbourne-police-crime-king-street-man-injured
Some times some rant anti refugee/mrigration blindly
Just as common ,others take the side of the above always
No way can you pin racism on me,but if we get the thread started, if the link to a filthy brain dead bashing is still working?
My question is why not take the race out of the debate and either send these total idiots home or put them in prison
Race, it stops us acting against some truly nasty people

The perpetrators in this case were said to be of African appearance.

Why is it racist to point that out?

This was clearly planned and the people doing it were clearly acting as a gang.

Weren't we told that there were no African gangs? Why is it racist to point that out? And why can't we ask why the authorities lied about it in the first place?

Answer: because using the word "racist" is an attempt to close down discussion as to the wisdom of Somali immigration and what's to be done about it now that its an irreversible fact.

The African gangs are the worst racists of all, accept that & stop waffling on about racism because racism can't be stamped out !

My point is, because they are of African back ground both sides heap abuse on each other
In truth the law must stop making rulings based on race
These things,and their always have been white just as bad,should be deported
We depot NZers,for less
They victimize their own community and ours
Defending them is silly
Tell this victim the problem is their background
IF they have Australian Citizenship,take it off them, if they do not never give it to them
Judge every one on their acts not race

One hundred murdered in Mali a day or so ago. It doesn't seem to be a big deal in the media. Why so? Isn't the brutal killing of on hundred twice as bad as the brutal killing of fifty? Murder is murder. Obviously some lives have celebrity appeal.

Fester,
To the Leftist do-gooders an NZ atrocity is sexier than Mali. Terribly sad, I know but that's how they are !

Indi,

I think it a case of a death being viewed from the perspective of its political value. I'd add that I am very uncomfortable with the "that is how they all think" summation as I cannot differentiate it from identity politics.

Refugees, almost by definition, are very different in their aspirations, from migrants. Refugees on the whole don't want to leave their country, but have to. Migrants may be happy to, at least for a time. It may be very necessary for refugees to leave their country and go to another country, but it may well be that they would be happier staying in their own country. But, of course, they can't.

So they have to reconcile themselves to staying in another country, where they have to learn another language, and negotiate very different economic, legal and cultural issues.

More than forty years ago, the late wonderful Nigerian-American educator, John U. Ogbu, made a thorough study of educational performance in a number of key countries, of native-born, immigrant, Indigenous and refugee populations. He concluded that the Indigenous and refugee populations, who tended to be unwilling participants in societies dominated by other groups, that their educational performance was correspondingly poorer than for dominant or willing-immigrant groups. Similarly, one could suggest, refugees have problems in integrating into a strange society, but - also by definition - that's what an effective refugee settlement policy has to manage successfully.

Refugees have specific problems that are distinct from those of immigrants, as well as, of course, some similar issues - not to mention problems relating to the ethnicity of dominant groups in host societies. So of course, refugees here need specific support programs in learning English, in improving and dovetailing their skills towards available jobs, in finding all of the standard aspirational comforts like housing, schooling, health services, etc., like anybody else.

Young people in refugee groups thereby have a range of problems which both their own community and the mainstream society and services may find difficult to resolve. So there is an urgent need for programs which embrace and incorporate young people from refugee populations into an inclusive and mainstream society.

Joe

Belly, I think for some on both sides it's a thing to hang onto rather than any particular attention to the issues.

I read an interesting article a while ago about the Sydney Somali community. No first hand knowledge of the issues so it could have been spin but "felt" right. I don't really like the identity aspect of a term like Somali community for a group living within Australia but it's probably useful in this context.

Basic premise was that the Sydney Somali community were bothered by the issues in Melbourne and the flow on to them. In part because they had taken some proactive steps when they started to rise with Somali youth in Sydney to nip it in the bud. If the article was at all accurate it made good sense.

In my view what's ascribed to racism is actually a cultural preference, most tend to function where the behaviours and attitudes of others are largely predictable with just enough variation thrown in to keep life interesting but not threatening.

I also suspect that many of those scream racist, sexist, somethingphobic etc are projecting. That they don't really believe in the equality of those groups they don't consider as able as themselves or their group but want to think of themselves as good so fight to help those who they don't think can help themselves. Somewhat oversimplified but trying to get a summation in a short read.

Others are just biggot's who find it convenient to virtue signal to keep a particular crowd onside.

Have you seen Avi Yemini's exposure of what happened during a Jim Jefferies interview when Jim thought his inconvenient comments would be edited out? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odCQhAezB_Q&t=7s I suspect the same applies to a lot of political figures on the right who like to spout their respect for god etc and their lives tell a very different story.

R0bert

Its all hypocritical bs at the heart of it anyway.

It's ok for Islam to crap on other peoples cultures.
- Look at every western nation -

They can take over our suburbs, form gangs and bash us until near death on our own streets;
But were not allowed to say anything bad about them, or their culture.
Or we are racist?

What a load of shite

To think they will influence our laws until they take over our way of life completely, (using the equality, minority, victimhood doctrine) and we're the ones who are labelled racist and demonised if we dare to complain about it.

It's ok to crap on white males
- search google news for 'white male' the dirty hypocrites

Say anything bad about anyone else and you'll be flagged for hate speech and shadow banned on facebook, twitter and google and youtube, as well as watched by government agencies on watch lists for potential right-wing terrorists.

I wish Muslims and Africans in Australia never existed.

Is it hate speech or is it a reflection of my true beliefs under 18D?

I mean tell me has any western country EVER seamlessly integrated Africans and Muslims into their nations?
Do we have ANY successful examples of this AT ALL?

- I'd have a whole lot less to complain about and I wouldn't be treated like a potential terrorist for saying what I think about the state of this stupid countries affairs -

Right at this moment Q&A is falling ar$e over backwards to pour fuel into the fire fanning racism by the racists feigning victimhood !
Silly mutt Tony Jones has fallen for it, he needs to be pensioned off. He is a disgrace to decency !

Is racism an element of the "identity politics" set? That would be the set that says you're a paedophile apologist for suggesting that George Pell got the rough end of the justice pineapple. That would be the set that thinks Andrew Bolt, Pauline Hanson et al inspirational for the Christchurch murders. What then for the one hundred in Mali? Is there an identity there? Maybe they will have to be thrown into the "anonymous" box along with the other hundred million or so pieces? Human beings are way too complicated for nonsense like this.

RObert well put and in fact mirrors my view and intention in starting this thread
Scum often make victims of the community they come from
And we,or those unwilling to see they are not representative of the whole, help
Yesterday we heard about a Islamic terrorist,currently in prison
How he carved an IS slogan on a fellow prisoners [former soldier?] head
And threatened to cut the head off a government official
He is scum
Why highlight his insane faith/belief?
Crime and person is the problem not faith or color
Hate the person if you wish but yesterday's news included two more Catholic sex offenders and one million dollar thief
Not every Catholic is a theif or pedophil

Q&A gave the racists a huge boost last night !

Hi there BELLY...

I understand the point you're making. Unfortunately, 'the race' is critical to police. When a description is broadcast; LOTBKF a male of 'African appearance,' it makes it much easier to ID the individual, with whom police wish to speak. Similarly, LOTBKF a male of Polynesian appearance; or Caucasian appearance.

At the risk of boring all you good people. When I was still in the job, a broadcast would go something like this -

'...All sector cars: LOTOBKF, a male person, of Caucasian appearance, dressed in; blue coloured jeans, torn at both knees, wearing a black sweatshirt, with a 'skull' motive on front; about 5'9'' in height; heavy to fat build; brown hair (or 'thatch'), last seen, walking east, along Bloggs Street, Parramatta. *WARNING - All Members*: Parramatta Detectives want to interview this individual on; an assault with a deadly weapon matter; A large carving styled knife; that's believed to be still in his possession. All members approach with caution...'

An 'accurate & full' description is essential to the police, prosecutors, and the Courts. Therefore it does demonstrate the importance of 'race,' whenever furnishing a comprehensive description of an individual is required.

To the racists it's only offensive when attention is drawn to their race & the audience on Q&A last night applauded them ??

the abc would have to be banging on about racism (of course only by white males) after egg splattered all over their faces over Trump's so called collusion. The egg has certainly covered any redness as they bang on about their sick ideolgies. Now they can turn their attention back to one nation. They really are an atrocious waste of tax payer money.

O sung wo good morning, yes you will be aware until recent changes it
was possible to hear police broadcasts
In a nearby village on your TV!
now illegal and not possible too
I do not consider the worldwide method, [descriptive,] is racist
I do however think Magistrates and judges, too often,let race/background soften their views about criminals in the dock
Along with sundry others who ignore the crime and in the end cause more crimes

Hi Belly,

On Q&A last night they had Teena McQueen Vice President of the Liberal Party, Wow what an asset to Labor, they should use her more often. If ditzy Teena is the calibre of women in the Liberal party then they need more men in parliament. lol

For anyone interested the murder estimate in Mali is currently about 130. All murdered by a gang with guns and machetes, then the village burned down. Murdered because they were believed to have Islamic extremist sympathies.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-47680836

I lost faith in the moral compass of the left many decades ago because of such inconsistencies. I came to the realisation that being a moral person has no correlation with ticking a few boxes on a checklist. Morality is very much a solitary pursuit for me.

Teena McQueen..
Paul1405,
McQueen was set upon by two racists & silly mutt Jones & git Burke did nothing about the hate speech.

Paul yes the face of the right of reality running this government
I am happy to see her rant like that, she represent the part of her party that leads their downfall
Fester, well yes but before putting the race or faith as reason can we admit, as said earlier in this thread'
Faiths prosper in poorer countries,
Primitive in that part of the world that faith needs to come out of the darkest part of the middle ages
It people need education about other than the fable of God that while never existing, empowers murder
We can find reason, any of us, to blame faiths
Are we brave enough to honestly ask why any one must bow to or live by rules of a never existed God

Belly,

I take a secular view of seeing religion as a means of establishing law and order. The murders in Mali were motivated by a base hatred of the semi-nomadic herders. Religion was a scapegoat to justify the killing. People will twist things to support their agendas.

Individual,

Frankly, I thought that both McQueen and Linda Burney were bird-brains, with little to offer to any discussion. But I was quite impressed by Maxine Gay and Tony Burke's contributions. It was one of Q & A's better sessions.

Joe

Dear Joe,

Teena McQueen seemed totally out of touch with reality.
Her performance was quite extraordinary. The woman
appeared to be clueless. I can't believe
that she's the vice president of the Liberal Party.
She should stick to knitting. Maxine Gay provided
some light-relief to the serious issues being discussed.
It was one of the better Q&A's yet. Hopefully there
will be even more to come.

Foxy the lady presented the ugly side of right of reality politics
Wondering when someone will post a thread about the one nation event in the USA.
However as I see that party as clearly racist this maybe the place to ask a question
Just like the now dead PUP Palmer United Party, O N fails to keep its elected members in the house
Latham will leave or try taking over
What do voters see in these failed parties
Can any sane person, put a case that every person, from any faith, or race, is a danger?

Belly,
i don't remember the names of the two racists that hoed into McQueen & it was they who showed the ugly side of hypocrisy. One spoke with an American accent & the other spoke with a Sub continent accent.
They were an example of division & hatred. Burke did nothing to stop them riding high on the anti white agenda even though they were of lighter complexion than the Liberal.

individual, you worry me
See you believe the stuff you post
The Liberal, even if you do not know it, hurt her party
True Liberals, and they exist, would be every bit as upset as I was by her unhinged comments

her unhinged comments
Belly,
can you give a couple of examples ?

What do voters see in these failed parties
Belly,
they have not failed, it's just that there are still more people like you out there who outnumber those who care for this nation rather than just party loyalty !

As I said individual it concerns me knowing you believe that
Tickles me knowing you think your blind support for the radical right, is different, in any way, to my support for my side
NZ today showed the world how to behave, we would be better for following them than the lunatic right

Belly & Individual,

There is a brilliant article in today's Australian by Henry Ergas in which he infers that Gramscianism and Fascism were not so far apart - they both believed that civil bourgeois institutions had to be torn down and a 'New Society' built in their place. I'm reminded that Mussolini, Vroce and Gentile in Italy made the ghastly 'progression' from socialism to fascism in amazingly short times.

So I'm not sure that extreme 'Left' and extreme 'Right' are all that different. So, for example, I can't tell whether the 'Yellow Vests' [gilets jaunes] in france are 'Left' or 'Right'. I suppose if you're a car-owner, and some bastard sets it alight, you're not that particular who you'd go for with a lump of wood.

Cheers,

Joe

Loudmouth found that interesting but have something to add
It has always been my view at least 80 percent of voters/people hold much the same views
Truly not finding many Socialists, or for that matter one nation, Australian conservatives, shooters party, and few who can talk of Bob Katter, without laughing
Lump them and in truth, near 90 percent think alike
Progressives, leftists, all Trump words, are meaningless
The ALP would never again, ever, be elected if it was a Socialist party
Compare our two sides, with America, and you will see both are in part socialist here

The ALP would never again, ever, be elected if it was a Socialist party
Belly,
I think you're trying to set a new record in being wrong. The ALP would never again be elected if 49% of voters were to be educated to think by themselves !

indy press your opinion by all means
But understand in saying YOU know more than 49 percent of the population YOU win my case
You live in total darkness when it comes to politics
Fact is the ALP gets the largest primary vote out of all in this country

You live in total darkness when it comes to politics..
Belly,
Politics is darkness, I suppose that's why you can't see it ! I don't know 49% of the population but I know what they're up to, I can see it throughout every Term of Govt. It's actually not 49% of the population, it's the wrong population making up 49 %, the rest are fairly sane !

indy thanks for the entertainment, you have me rolling on the floor laughing but let the thread die
It only highlights the fragile nature of your links to reality
Thanks for the contributions but let it drift away, see you in another thread

Fester and Runner- Interesting comments- Thanks.

Racism just got an unwitting ally in NZ. The exploitation will begin in earnest very soon !

Individual- I agree that in democracy education (the cause and effect of power in different contexts) in a broad sense is really important for the electorate to have a high level of understanding in order for the system to work effectively and efficiently. This is one of the reasons why free speech is so critical- rather than political correctness. There is a risk with free speech that emotive issues will sway the electorate- with education the electorate will be able to approach issues more rationally- and will be less influenced by shock tactics.

I've been trying to get through Plato's Rhetoric which outlines how politicians used influence in ancient Greece (but it's really boring- I'll have to push through the boredom one day to get to the end- I'm sure there is wisdom for budding Philadelphia Lawyers in there somewhere ;) ).

Hopefully with a better understanding of rhetoric I can understand better how to offset undue influence in debates- I think this was Plato's intent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_lawyer

Thanks for your comments Individual. Always interesting.