Brides of such fighters have asked to return home
Home being the country they left, some times betrayed to join IS
Trump tells Europe to take them back, and charge them with their crimes
Should we
Can we be sure they if released not commit murder here or in any country taking them back
The Subject is not about Muslims
SOME of them are victims too of the quite insane IS and other terrorist groups
Should take them back, ever?

Bring IS fighters home?
NO !

Hey Belly,
I'm not sure they have a right to call their 'home' countries home.
As far as I'm concerned they defected to join the 'Islamic State Caliphate'.

They forfeited our ideals and way of life and do not deserve our funding, protection or sympathy.
These things are privilidges, I'll save my sympathy for some poor Aussie battler who's on life support fighting a medical issue that wasn't their fault.
They are the ones deserving of sympathy, these ones deserve none.

The 'Caliphate' may now be destroyed, but where would their loyalties be had it not?
And if they're ideology is still aligned with the beliefs of Islamic extremists;
Possessing military training and / beheading and suicide bomber ideology, as well as potentially commiting many crimes that may never be known nor they held accountable for then in my opinion it would not just be foolish to set them loose, but completely irresponsible.

Can you imagine what 800 of these people set free in Europe might do?
This issue should not even be contemplated.

They deserve to be shot on sight like the enemies to our way of life they chose to become.
Their lives should be forfeited, just like they planned to do to us with their ideology.
- No Exceptions -

If you don't get rid of them they will kill more of us;
And then it would be our own fault for being compassionate and showing them mercy.

People need to stop making decisions on emotion rather than logic.

Armchair Critic at least you both understood and answered the question indy seems to think it was a suggestion
Yes bringing them home may stop them being released and murdering others
But I do not trust western justice to keep them locked up
Will post links a we talk but the young English pass port holder in my view told us not to bring her home
She never said sorry, told us heads in a drum did not upset her, enough said, rot in hell for me
But and surely it is not just me, Trump, while ignoring his own advice and refusing to take another bride back, was right, letting them go free is wrong
My use of theword home refers topass port holders not, as they proved in leaving to fight with IS fellow country men andwomen

May I?
Individuals post reminded me, in the past long ago a subject was twice, *taken out to the car park*
A way of saying gloves off for two sides to talk frankly
It is obvious we are ignoring each others threads
Becoming groups
A purely left or right world would be a mess
So do we have to treat each other with raw rude contempt for having different opinions?
This subject is my views, a man proud to have never been of the right
It is not anti Muslim, not anti anything
In it I question of the two choices what is best
My contempt for Islamic terrorism is as deep and harsh, unforgiving, as any ones but see the two sides how do we best protect our country
HOW even do we need to, stop abusing each other and understand a world with only one sides view would be a bleak one?

There are Australian families doing it tough & with the money that'd be spent defending these ISIS terrorists we could greatly help the needy families here.
Just the money alone spent on lawyers would keep a whole suburb going for ten years.
I say leave the traitors where they are. Decent people paying all their life savings for Visa application to Australian immigration for nothing are denied entry yet some people want to bring these terrorists here at huge expense ? Are people totally stupid ?

indy you seem to have missed the point
The question in my humble view, is are we better served by bringing the trash home and putting them in prison
Or should we shut the door and let them , one be killed over there
TWO get a chance to be free and maybe commit more crimes/murders
We owe them nothing, why would you think the thread claimed other wise

As a party to the instability of the Middle East through regime change, support for lawless states etc, the West, and that includes Australia, have a real problem on their hands.
We might have won the battle, but that's not to say we have won the war, which is now entering a new phase.

//I say leave the traitors where they are// What to roam unchecked, to be further radicalised, to infiltrate those they perceive as hostile, that's you and me, and carry out even more atrocious terrorist acts. a simplistic solution with pit falls.

Bring them home? What does that entail, if you allow for the rule of law, which some on here do not agree with "shot on sight". What can you charge them with, the relative minor offence of entering a war zone, anything else may be hard to prove. Then you have got to let them out after two or three years behind bars, more hostile than ever. The type of governments we have will do that, regardless of what party is in power.

George W Bush, John Howard and other Washington and Canberra Rambo's didn't give much thought to the future consequences of their gung-ho actions at the time.

You can never defeat an enemy who will never give up. Unless of course you totally obliterate every last one, and you can never be sure you got the lot, there is always the next generation. Those that might perpetrate terrible terrorist acts in 2040, may not even be born yet.

Well a different opinion Paul 1405 but the question remains
Yes we are in trouble in the middle east and maybe other parts of the Islamic faiths other country,s
We can even look at long past colonial mistakes/crimes that may have bought this about
But never the less we can not over look the inhumanity of radical Islam
Sorry about bringing it up again but if there is no God why bend to any of them
Why give ground /benefit to followers of any fantasy
At the start of this thread I saw several days of speculation Trump wanted to bring them home, told others too
That has changed,two brides, in my view no better than their men, have been told they can not return

You can never defeat an enemy who will never give up.
Paul1405,
So, what would you do with those fighters ? bring them home or leave them there or what ?
Have you got any alternatives ?

Hi there BELLY & INDIVIDUAL...I agree with each of you. Both your arguments have considerable merit. Something you said BELLY struck me? '...I do not trust Western Justice to keep them locked up...'? That would be my contention as well.

Whereas you INDIVIDUAL had an excellent point when you said why should we pay tens of thousands of Dollars for them to go through our legal channels and if convicted, pay to have 'em locked up for many years? It deprives many of our pensioners of resources they badly need. It's a real conundrum, for sure.

My opinion - most of those who arrive by boats are not genuine refugees. They come, apparently, 'Stateless' having delibrately discarded all documents of identification, necessary to establish their bona fides, and claiming they're genuine refugees. At which point, after investigation, it's often revealed they're convicted criminals or economic refugees. Regrettably, through our many layers of appeal, we now have criminals living and taking succor from the Oz taxpayer. I'm buggered if I know?

Bring them home if you wish, but only in a box.

Dear Belly,

You ask - "Bring IS fighters home?"

I feel very strongly about this subject.
These people made their choice. Let them
now live with the choice they made.

I watched that British woman asking to be
allowed to go "home". Yet she showed no remorse
for the actions of these extremists that she
supported - nor for what they
have done both in
Britain and overseas. People like her do not
deserve to be allowed back to the country that
they betrayed. Surely, in war, when you support
the enemy - you're considered a traitor to
your own country - and you lose your citizenship?

I don't know what civil courts have to do with war.

They're POW's and should be held in military prisons until hostilities cease. If that's never, so be it.

Dear Foxy,

This Reddit comment has clarified my stance on the issue and I agree with it.

"Revoking citizenship is unheard of for good reason. Next time the UK wants to deport someone undesirable they've just opened the door to other countries saying no and revoking their own citizens rights to return. There is a reason why this isn't done, Javid knows this and knows he will lose in the courts so really this is just red meat for the more and more right wing Tory base.

Secondly, she was born in the UK, raised in the UK and educated in the UK. At the end of the day - she isn't Syria's responsibility and unless they plan to detain her she is the UK's responsibility and the UK should live up to it's responsibility and look to detain her or rehabilitate her.

You have Huntley's and Bellfields sitting in jail in the UK. They are infinitely worse than Shamima and are guilty of actual murder and murderous crimes. They were however given due process, a trial and a sentencing. Shamima has received no due process and yet the UK is punishing her. She deserves to be punished and held accountable - but after she is investigated and charged, not summarily with no scope to defend herself.

If you don't value due process then fair enough - but I can tell you it's the difference between utter authoritarianism or worse, and a civilised society. Due process is one of the most important rights we have but it hasn't been afforded to Shamima.

Finally - she was groomed as a 13/14 year old, married off at 15. She has never been outside that bubble since and is now most likely quite indoctrinated. She is surrounded by extremely vicious people who would murder her in her sleep if she spoke out."

Cont..

Cont..

"She should be brought back to the UK and ultimately will be when the Home Offices little dog and pony show is over. It should annoy you that they are breaking international law and their own guidelines to show off how right wing they are.

She should be investigated and her culpability established. Was she willing, was she groomed, how did it happen what is the context and at that point society can decide how she should be punished.

This entire affair is just another embarrassment for the UK and honestly the attitude on reddit has been really disappointing. People refusing to scratch even a small amount below the surface and making up their mind without showing much of an understanding of what may have happened in this instance."

End quote.

Thanks for that Steele, absolutely correct in that particular case. It most likely applies to many other cases as well, some involving Australian citizens.

The forums rabid right bunch of bloodhounds always has the simplistic answer; "shoot the bastards!". That might work in theory, but sometimes the wrong bastards get shot.

I'm asked; So, what would you do with those fighters?

I would bring those that Australia is responsible for back to Australia. Not because I want to give them a warm bed, and three square meals a day. Being in Australia we would have better control and monitoring than if they were roaming freely around some lawless state in the Middle East. No simplistic answers.

How about we give them a kayak & they can paddle to Australian waters where the Navy can pick them up up & transfer them straight to prison with a cell that has a cyanide tablet that can be accessed by smashing a small window.

Belly: The question in my humble view is;
are we better served by bringing the trash home and putting them in prison.

No that would cost the Taxpayer to look after them. Free food & lodging, medication, etc. & run anti-western seminars in the prisons. After that let them out to cause havoc in our streets.

Belly: The question in my humble view is;
should we shut the door and let them be killed over there.

The only solution is to let the Country they waged War in deal with them.

Belly: The question in my humble view is;
get a chance to be free and maybe commit more crimes/murders.

Which is exactly what would happen. These people are the Fanatics of Fanatics. That includes their Wives & Children, who give the utmost support & belief in their Caliphate.

Every year in Australia there is an Islamic Forum held discussing "The Great Southern Caliphate" Australia. Many years ago when the Ayatollah Khomeini visited Australia he made a speech to the moslims imploring them to get as many moslims into ?Australia as they could because, "Australia is a Religious desert & ripe for Conversion to Islam." That was in the early 70's & look what has happened since them.

Well done Steelie. One would expect you to play Devils Advocate. Especially when you appear to support these Criminals in every way.

p1405: but sometimes the wrong bastards get shot.

But not in this case.

p1405: Being in Australia we would have better control and monitoring than if they were roaming freely around some lawless state in the Middle East.

Better Control? When there are supporters the likes of you & steelie & lot of others we haven't heard from for some time. Yes Control like monitoring Rapists & Child molesters & other Criminals, people with mental Health Problems that are let out of Care. Yes I can see where the Authorities would have better Control. NOT.

The Pollies that allowed these people come to Australia in the first place should be charged. It should be mandated that if they return they should live next door to a Greens candidate, Kevin Rudd or Phelps.

Interesting opinions every one of them
My fear remains our courts are not to be trusted
My view is much like Foxy,s
And surely if we think about it, our very law and fairness is just what terrorists use against us
Every murder, from the young women bought and sold as slaves to be headings, should remind us we are not dealing with human beings
In time to come we will, a we must, take much harsher action against these people
Today a not Muslim murderer/terrorist was sentenced to serve at least 48 years in prison
That, at last, is a sentence that suits the crime

Paul,

"You can never defeat an enemy who will never give up."

Spot on there!
The English found this out after invading Ireland in 1170.

is Mise,
so what do you suggest ? Give up ?

Jayb,
Australia has never dealt harshly with criminals but the authorities do come down heavy on citizens who do it tough because of a rotten bureaucracy.
Australia should not spend another Cent on these sub humans & their supporters that joined IS. Let them become victims of those whom they wanted to make victims of.

individual,

"so what do you suggest ? Give up ?"

Not at all, I was merely making an observation relative to creating a problem for one's self.
Personally, I'd stop all Muslim migration and deport any that step out of line.
My good Muslim mate, up in India, who happens to be a Prince among his own Muslim people, thinks that Australia is mad to have Muslim migrants and he knows his own people, having fought against Muslims, whilst leading Muslim troops, in the liberation of East Pakistan.

Dear individual,

It really comes down to how you characterise it doesn't it. Is Trump "giving up" or pulling out"?

Was it the removal of British troops and the ceasing of operations in Northern Ireland that paved the way for the peace process?

It was these two statements from Major which lead to the IRA committing to a ceasefire a year later.

"The British government had no "selfish strategic or economic" interest in Northern Ireland." and "The people of the island of Ireland, North and South, had the exclusive right to solve the issues between North and South by mutual consent."

There is no doubt that Australia's involvement in taking lives in Syria and beyond would have played a part in both terrorist related actions on our soil and the provided motivation to some here to make their way to the conflict zone. The fact that New Zealand was not involved and has been relatively free from terrorism events is a case in point.

So time will tell if a withdrawal of Australian forces from that region will reduce risk levels here. I suspect they will.

Australian forces from that region will reduce risk levels here. I suspect they will.
Steele Redux,
That'd be great but since it has nothing to do with involvement in the conflict, the quest for eventually making Australia an islamic country will continue.

Funny part of all this though is that the US (and others) are responsible for the 'Arab Spring'.
US was quite happy to pretend to be fighting IS and letting their oil convoys through until Russia came onto the scene.
The whole Syrian war was a western backed failed regime change.

I understand Shemima was young, has a baby, went into it at a young age (some may argue not able to make adult decisions), may not have been directly involved in the fighting and is a woman...

Hang on... wait a bloody minute.
She's a perfect 'victim' poster child for every women and human rights organisation to drive us into arguments over;
With the result of 'forcing down our guard down' with victimhood and pave the way to let ALL these people off.
- They're playing us -

In any case:

I don't necessarily think any of these people deserve due process;
- Not in the current political climate -

When David Icke (British citizen) cannot travel or speak in Australia;
Or when Tommy Robinson is persecuted for speaking and reporting freely on Muslims;
When our rights in our own countries are denied and trampled upon
And we're attacked and vilified for having an opinion and daring to express it (Sonia Kruger)
- Then I couldn't give a stuff about her 'due process'.
Restore OUR rights first, then I'll think about hers.

Luke 17:3-4

“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”

Let them come home. But there are two conditions they should do.

1). Apologize for joining and supporting IS.
2). If they come with children, they give up their children to the state, just as abusive parents have to give up their children to child services for being bad parents.

If they can do both of these things then they must be sincere in wanting to come home. Do anything else you think is necessary from serving in prison, or register as a terrorist bride and have similar zoning laws for where they can live as a sex offender has; such as to not be allowed to live near any schools. But if they can do the first two conditions then let them come home.

Hey Not_Now.Soon,

I believe in:
1. Stay on top of things (That's not just money that's everything else as well.)
2. Make the most of life's opportunities
3. Don't let others get the best of you.

I'd like to point out some flaws in your religious ideology.

“If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”

I say fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

If they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ then obviously they didn't care about sinning against you in the first place; they certainly weren't sincere which means they're lying and treating you like an idiot and all you're doing is giving their sins a free pass.

Is your tolerance of sins unconditional?
Do you like living in a world of sin?
- Well you created it, by always giving it a free pass...

You might be trying to be the good Samaritan but these people are not your brothers, not even the same religious denomination, and they want you dead.

The difference between me and you is you're quite happy to let snakes and spiders into your home believing 'love conquers all'.

You're happy to accept it that they may sin against you or even me again and you're ok with it.
But for me (and this is my home and my country too)
I'd have their heads in a basket before I gave any of these people the opportunity to ever hurt any single one of you; but that's just me.

Your religious beliefs mean you can't see things clearly.
You're willing to put everyone's lives in danger for something that you personally believe in.
Your decision that puts everyone's lives in danger but you think its ethical and morally righteous?

I'll make the decision that you can't make, that ensures everyone's safety.

Let us think about before IS became what they thought was a state
About Bali, about the throat slashing of innocent journalists
Then IS its slave markets, sex slaves, as a reward for murder
Yes we pride our selves in our humanity, our forgiveness, and IS thrives by using it against us
Bring them home? reform them?
Are we that mad
At times many of us have wished western country,s, well America, never inflicted torture on its prisoners
That payments to relatives of accidentally killed people could not buy the forgiveness of those relatives
But I at least,think defeating terrorists will increasingly force us to show as much sympathy for them as they show for us zero

Hi Belly,

Western policy for 50 years in the Middle East has been one based on control through destabilisation, regime change when it was felt necessary, exploitation and oppression, denial of basic human rights and open warfare to affect this policy whenever it was seen as justified, and that was often. The hostile infliction of the state of Israel on the Arabs was in no small measure a catalyst for much of the trouble. This great cock up was for the vital control of the huge oil resource in the region. Its all due to what we call our strategic interests. Things could have been a whole lot worse if not for the fact that the Soviet Union and later the Russian state did not have such a vital interest in the Middle East.

Not often do I agree with Trump, but on this he is being a little bit sensible. .

Dear Steele,

Thank You for your comments and my apologies for not
responding sooner. I've been doing a bit more research
on this issue. Apparently the penalty for treason
seems to be imprisonment. Therefore if Australia and other
countries stand by the rule of law, global justice, they
must then stand firm and take a principled stand to
prosecute those who have fought under the ISIS banner -
which includes their own citizens.

Therefore, countries are obligated to bring their ISIS
fighters home and then put them on trial as appropriate.
Thereby sending a message to others who may wish to
follow in their footsteps.

cont'd ...

The only way we can deny taking back our
citizens who fought under the ISIS banner -
is if we passed legislation in Parliament
that allowed for the loss of citizenship
due to treason against our country and its
citizens. Perhaps that's something that we
should consider?

Dear Steele,

My husband has just pointed out the fact that -
legislation already exists that people can lose
their citizenship if they engage in terrorist
activities or are "foreign fighter."
So now I'm totally confused. It appears that
ISIS fighter qualify for citizenship loss.

US has a similar narrative going with the ISIS brides

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/us-rejects-is-bride-and-former-twitter-propagandist-who-claimed-she-was-brainwashed-by-group/news-story/733f7526cfff6283ea7c4535f9c009e4

If she was a man that joined ISIS she'd have been doing the killing.
As previously stated, I think this narrative is just to pave the way for all of them to be returned to where they came from.

just to pave the way for all of them to be returned to where they came from.
Armchair Critc,
as I stated earlier, just leave them in the care of those they wanted to wipe out !

Foxy/Paul, do not think for a second I am other than Labor to the bootstraps
BUT do we understand we send New Zealanders home for criminal acts
To protect us right or wrong, some times clearly wrong
ABC still a fan, interviewed a bloke who much like you two wanted us to give terrorists and their brides another chance
What if one in a hundred let of a bomb killing a hundred of us
Yes the west is removing citizenship, as it should
Remember those lined up at trench edge and murdered
Just like the SS did
Would you have let the SS shelter here
Labor is a big tent party, let me tell you there is room for both our views
But on this matter any softening of what voters demand would be the end of my party, forever never bring them home unless it is to lock them up forever
The insanity that is radical Islam is not defeated and more mass murders will come
We, as we must, will get much harsher with them

Belly,
some people will never accept what Islam is all about ! Islam is to the World what Labor is to Australia. It won't let off until all is in ruins !

Dear Foxy,

You wrote;

"My husband has just pointed out the fact that -
legislation already exists that people can lose
their citizenship if they engage in terrorist
activities or are "foreign fighter."
So now I'm totally confused. It appears that
ISIS fighter qualify for citizenship loss."

I think you will find this only applies to those with dual citizenship. If instead that person was born in Australia and does not hold citizenship with any other country then I think there would be great deal of legal difficulty trying to send them back to another country if they turned up on our doorstep.

Many of the laws passed around foreign fighters and terrorists are very much for show. It is doubtful they would fully stand up if properly tested but they have made for good fodder the general public.

Dear Steele,

It will be interesting to see what the government
will do regarding Australian citizens who went
to fight with IS and now either they or their
families want to come back. I'm no legal expert as
you can see - and I don't know what all the legalities
involved are concerning this issue. I would have
thought that according to the rule of law it would be a
simple matter - obviously not.

Don't bring them here, or their wives, unless absolutely have to. Try all avenues first to keep them out.

Why don't we build detention on, say, MacQuarie Island for these bods. It does not have to be tropical or real high standard.

Come to think of it, we could house other scum there as well, like Anita Coby's killers and other heinous murderers. Would ease accomodation pressure on mainland jails

Henry,

It would put a lot of pressure on staff though, probably having to fly in and out from Hobart. Why not somewhere closer, but still remote, like 20 miles out from Broken Hill, or Pt Augusta, or Thargomindah ? There would be international conventions that a government would have to adhere to, but if the Philippines' gaols pass those tests perhaps we could emulate their systems ?

If someone has only Australian citizenship, then they can't really be left anywhere else (where they aren't citizens) and Australia would be legally bound to take them back. Macquarie Island might do okay as a temporary holding base (it's probably fairly nice there at this time of the year) but I would recommend somewhere out from Broken Hill or Alice Springs for the longer term prisoners (Thargomindah is a bit far out for staff, but ...... ). And for mongrels like those killers of Anita Cobby too. And Gargasoulis. Isolated corrugated iron huts, 3 m square, would probably meet international standards.

Joe

I have ignored anti Muslim posts, as said at the start it is not related to this thread
Paul 1405 and Foxy have had me thinking from my last post
Yes I know colonialists did great wrongs in the middle east
Are we to pay forever for that? put our kids at risk? just to fix past wrongs
We do understand these people hate us because of middle ages invasions of Christian Knights? is that how they forgive and forget
Yes my thoughts are cruel but not as bad as theirs
Bring them back? imprison them?
How long would it be before these folk are used to fuel kidnapping in an effort to set them free
Never forget the murders, never drop the self defense we all have in the back of our minds

Joe,
Not sure but maybe too small and rugged for an airstrip and has a heliport. Only access is by sea (say once per month).

You say it may be quite pleasant this time of year? They had snow in Hobart last week, so what was the weather on Macquarie Island. Its a long way from Tas, must check Latitude. Said to be halfway between NZ and Antartica.

We could argue forever about where! July temp ave 4.9 Jan temp ave 8.8 800 hours of sun per year. Its part of Tas so citizenship not a problem. Nat Park may pose a few problems.

Yes I know colonialists did great wrongs in the middle east
Belly,
No disputing that. However, the Muslims have been fighting each other Centuries before European Colonialists ever thought about other places to exploit.
Even after they colonised the whole planet , Muslims will fight because mayhem is what they thrive on.

Dear Foxy,

Under the new rules from 2016 this bloke may well have had his Australian citizenship revoked if he held dual citizenship.

http://thewest.com.au/news/australia/please-dont-go-to-syria-mum-told-soldier-before-he-was-killed-ng-ya-109007

Some of those who went to Syria and joined rebel forces to fight against Assad's army and security forces who were gassing, torturing, bombing and shooting civilians.

Most of those groups were not ISIS but many did have an religious elements to them. Depending what stage of the conflict the US forces were alternatively supporting them then bombing them.

However it was likely the same images and reports which sent Jamie Bright to go and fight in Syria that also drove them.

I think every case should be judged on its merits.

Dear Steele,

Hopefully our government will go by the rule of
law. Whether it's right or wrong - it will be by the law.

hi Foxy,

I to believe strongly in the rule of law. which some here apparently do not, the "shoot the bastards" mob for one.

There are problems;

Some of these people are Australian citizens, even born here.
As Steele pointed out, some were not engaged with ISIS, but with other groups, some at times supported by Australia. What about them.
Then there is the problem of proof beyond reasonable doubt, which in many cases evidence could be very difficult to find, thus making it hard to obtain a conviction.

Why I agree with bring those that Australia are responsible for here, simply to keep a very good eye on them. Running around a lawless Middle East, being further radicalised and indoctrinated we would have no idea what they could be plotting

What is the penalty for treason in Australia ?

Dear individual,

I don't know, perhaps you would like to tell us. Google is your friend at times like these.

However the definition of treason is; "the crime of betraying one's country, especially by attempting to kill or overthrow the sovereign or government".

While Australian law moved to make it illegal to do so was the action of going to Syria to take up arms against the Syrian military a treasonous act for any Australian?

If we leave them there someone will put them down, probably sooner rather than later. This would be fair, as helping to put others down was why they went there.

This will save us a whole lot of expense & problems.

To Armchair Critic.

What you've said sounds reasonable in order to protect ourselves and our communities. However, much of the teachings in the bible aren't about just being reasonable, but are a challenge in the hard decisions of life. This is one of those instances. I'm not arguing to be a Good Samaritan, like taking an injured person looking after them and taking them to a place they can heal. (Though the Good Samaritan parable is worth considering a bit). Instead what I've tried to hold both the things we should do and find a way that might be able to do both.

The two concerns here are to 1) protect the countries that these IS brides want to return to, and 2) to give a second chance to those who are citizens of their home country, if they truly realize their mistake.

If they really are sincere and realize the dangers they are in from being in IS and whatever country they're now in, then coming back from there regardless of the conditions made for their return would be the real concern. Especially if they have children as the ones in the news seem to. If this is the real situation then handing your children to a safe place supersedes staying in a dangerous place but keeping them there. If they are not sincere, then yes this sacrifice of saying goodbye to their children will be to much to agree with.

That is the biggest filter for dividing up the sincere from the still terrorist women. But there are other conditions that can be met. A public apology, registering as a terrorist bride and wherever you are having that as part of your record, even going to court and jail. From these they would have to also swallow their pride and apologize (hard to do if they are not sincere) and accept whatever terms of a life in the country they originally came from, because even those terms would be better then the "mistake" they chose.

(Continued)

(Continued)

I honestly think these are a high enough standard that not many brides will want to come home and face any consequences such as these. Only those who are sincere and desperate to get out. (Which is essentially what they claim they are anyways).

Firmly think referring to any holly book on this subject is not helpful
It was such books that got s in to this trouble in the first place
Let us just for the sake of talking say the evil west is the reason terrorists exist
Then claim we should hug the people in question and bring them back, all is forgiven
What then? what happens when we reward mass murderers and those who supported them because we claim to be better than them
Laws are made Foxy, and truly law are not made just by governments
Voters in numbers big enough to have power demand such laws
Think about that Saudi Arabian pilot, cadged and roasted to death on a fire
The hundreds of slave women, remind your selves of the Brides of fighters, walking the streets of occupied towns flogging or ordering the flogging of other women
Then tell me we should be kind to these people

To Belly.

You said:

<<Firmly think referring to any holly book on this subject is not helpful
It was such books that got s in to this trouble in the first place>>

I firmly disagree. It was Muslim holy books that got Islamic terrorist to come to such an evil cause as ISIS. No other religion or religious texts should be banned from the discussion due to one religion. For anyone of a certain religion, regardless what that religion is, if they don't refer to the holy texts of their faith in the hard decisions of life, then they don't really believe in those texts or that faith. If a secular position is worth hearing when it doesn't hold a religious perspective on life and the world, but a religious position is not worth hearing because it is a perspective from a religious text then there is no freedom of thought and freedom of faith. I strongly oppose your criticism, and instead say regardless of a person's faith we should come together and share our concerns and suggestions. Especially on hard dividing issues like this one will likely turn into as more media coverage goes into it.

<<Let us just for the sake of talking say the evil west is the reason terrorists exist>>

For the sake of talking then if this point is believed, then we as part of the west have a responsibility to what's happening in the Middle East. I'm not sure that this point is as true as it's sometimes claimed, but if it is, then we have a responsibility.

<<Then claim we should hug the people in question and bring them back, all is forgiven
What then? what happens when we reward mass murderers and those who supported them because we claim to be better than them>>

That is not what I suggested. I don't think that's been anyone's suggestion so far. Don't put words in people's mouth and then feel like you've won a point when they don't defend the points they never said.

"For the sake of talking then if this point is believed, then we as part of the west have a responsibility to what's happening in the Middle East. I'm not sure that this point is as true as it's sometimes claimed, but if it is, then we have a responsibility."

I'd hate to think that my beliefs align with that of the left;
But sometimes I think I can almost see their arguments.
I just wanted to say that firstly because I'm mindful of where this comment might take me.

You get a lot of 'Not My President' in the US atm.
In the same way I could easily say 'Not My War'.
- Followed by 'Not My Problem'.

In regards to the "...then we have a responsibility" part;
Why is it automatically assumed that 'I', (As I am a part of 'we');
- Should be expected to support 'taking responsibility' for parts of this mess;
IE - I should support us taking these people back under some kind of 'democratic responsibility' due to our involvement in the war.

Why should I automatically be expected to ethically support it
If ethically I opposed our involvement in these wars in the first place?

Why would I go along with this 'democratic responsibility' if support for the war;
- That is supporting the US in the war would've likely occurred under either of the major parties?

I guess the bigger question then is this:
Do we support the US staying the worlds superpower in return for our own protection by them, even if they cause wars, chaos and carnage all over the place for either Israels benefit or to protect the petrodollar and the US economy?

Are we ok with the carnage we either support or turn a blind eye to in return for the United States protection?

Steele Redux,
You are only right on a small technical point, morally you missed the point ! IS weren't just about the Syrian Govt, they are about the first few step to the whole World !

Belly,

You asked, "Would you have let the SS shelter here?"

The short answer is "Yes".

NNSD: I'm not arguing to be a Good Samaritan, like taking an injured person looking after them and taking them to a place they can heal.

Our biggest problem, in the West, is that we look at all situations with "Western Eyes." We should be looking at these problems through the eyes of the Middle East.

In the West we look at a solution for these people as we would if they were Westerners. This is really "Bad Thinking." We can't do that. These people think in terms of the Middle East. They believe that our Western Culture & thinking is inferior to theirs.

When we look at a dilemma, such as how to do deal with these people, we should be thinking, like they think. What would be their solution if the situation was reversed.

I have a suspicion that the outcome would not be very kind to Westerners. The Conditions imposed on Westerners would be horrific, or, suffer the consequences.

The West has a Secular System, even though the Religious keep trying to push a Theocratic view, The Middle East has a very Strict Theocratic System which they are determined to enforce on the World by any & all means possible. Allowing these people back into Western Society makes them all the more determined to succeed. The West would be the cause of that success & they know that & play on it.

My View. No, keep them out of the West & especially out of Australia.

We are in a war, we [this generation] did not start
That war uses the worst parts of a holly book, not known to be inclusive
We dance around a truth, there never was a God
Had there been one why did He/She LET OVER 4.000 OTHERS EXIST
This war, has seen our welcome to some, become a platform for betrayal
If we want to be kind, save it for the two women [currently] wanting to flee from Saudi Arabia, a country sponsoring terrorism
Let us use their very culture against them
But bring them home, not my home thanks

Belly,

"Had there been one why did He/She LET OVER 4.000 OTHERS EXIST"

Saying that He let over 4,000 other gods exist implies belief in the God that allows their existence, as does your emphatic capitals; have you suddenly become a believer?

There is one part of this story that's missing. Just details regarding the ISIS brides. How many are wanting to return to their homes. What countries are they running back to. And what are they running from? Are they running because they made a mistake, or are they running because they'll get hanged or otherwise face justice if they stay where they are. If this is a last ditch effort to circumvent justice, then no, don't let that person return to the country she is trying to flee to.

Each woman can be judged on a case by case instance instead of thinking that this is opening the gates to hundreds of criminals who joined a criminal organization. (Unless the numbers support that there are hundreds trying to come back). From web searches I can only find a few people trying to return to their home countries. Not to Australia either. So is this really an issue at all for anyone here?

To Armchair Critic.

If the west is responsible for the issues of terrorism in the Middle East, then it can't be solved by letting a few women running from their past come back to the countries they came from.

If it can be solved at all, then letting them back could be thought of as a start, but I wouldn't go that far either.

The reasons for letting them come back are not because of being responsible for terrorist, but at least for me would be on the basis of their claims that they are fleeing and at risk. Redemption is a valuable principle to me. Second chances, first chances, and forgiveness are worth consideration. With that in mind. i would consider letting the brides back. There should be a way to do this while also maintaining caution for the safety of the countries they would be returning to.

You'vecalso raised several hard questions. Why should you take the responsibility for a mess you didn't create or agree with? Be held for actions that the US was involved in, not Australia. Even a question of supporting the US at all.

The question was posed by Belly in the terms of western responsibility. I answered that question using the same terms. Change the terms changes the question. But yes I still maintain the idea that our history is our responsibility. If you can't fix the wrongs you can at least do something to make it better. That said I don't have any idea of what actions could be done, as a means of doing something about it. There is too much corruption in the area to just give money, and any other solution would require a more hands on approach with whomever takes the responsibility. Meaning having people sent there to the danger zones. Risking their lives to try and make a difference.

I don't have a solution on hand. And the scope of the questions goes out away from the topic of terrorist brides.

To Jayb.

It sounds like you have a similar position as Belly has regarding religions. Basically to kick all religions out and be happy without any of them. Sounds very controlling and oppressive of a view. Reminds me of China in their cultural revolution. Just a heads up, so you don't keep going down that path of thinking.

As for looking at the problem through western eyes, or middle eastern eyes. I don't know how to look at a situation through middle eastern eyes. I don't intend to learn except for aspects of finding solutions in their lands that their culture wouldn't reject and be a waste of money on. On that note, I also don't intend to look at it through your eyes or anyone else's either.

To Belly.

You generalize too much. Work on that. The situations each generation is born into is always based on the situations that their parents bring them in from. This includes the benefits as well as the responsibilities. Or would you also be ready to not take the things your parents generation fought for, because you did not fight for them. Freedom, prosperity, a safe home. Think of all of it on those terms before you crash with "not my problem" blindness. As for religions as a whole, that has nothing to do with whether to let the terrorist brides come home. Unless your response to the brides is to not take them back and also kick out all religious people of Australia as well. If that is the case then read my reply to Jayb. It applies to you as well.

is mise mate I just do not understand why you think you can think for me, why the nit picking,
Not -now-soon we are unlikely to think alike but interested in your posts
In my last post I spoke about two women who fled the Saudis, both have given up the faith and want freedom
Many more would too if we gave them hope
My detractors will have my total support for bringing them here
But never ever for brides of or terrorists
USA and England have said no, we have too in relation to trying to take citizenship from one fighter
Now, a personal explanation, why am I so harsh on this subject
Warning, the soft underbelly of Labors left/Greens/True left turns voters off follow the voters do not try to lead them to places they will not go

both have given up the faith and want freedom
Belly,
Congratulations for being the officially first Australian to fall for that latest con.
I mean we did say that more will follow after that young female that was eventually taken to Canada.

NNS: It sounds like you have a similar position as Belly has regarding religions. Basically to kick all religions out and be happy without any of them. Sounds very controlling and oppressive of a view.

A bridge too far, me thinks. Christianity finished going through their bad period about 400 years ago. It has never caused any Terrorism in it's name in Australia. Now we, the West,are semi-civilized, Islam is not & never will be, it's still back at 640 AD & will "never" advance. Buddhism & Hinduism (Though not strictly Religions per se.) have never caused any terrorism in Australia. Hence my attitude towards Islam & it's adherents. They "Must" be removed from Australia for our safety.

Most of all, we must not allow any more to enter Australia. Especially those who have fought with or supported, in any way, any Pro Islamic Group.

The Government "must" formulate Laws to that effect, without loopholes. Of course they won't because there is a lot of Under the Table that goes on to support the Political Parties.

Remember, Gifts & Donations, are what the West calls Bribery in other Countries.

Here is one of my Tank Ideas;

Political Parties in the Federal, State & Local spheres must divulge all of their donations of any kind they receive from Lobby Groups & private persons. This must state what the Lobby Groups & private persons expect the Political Parties in the Federal, State & Local spheres to give them in return for their donation. Lobby Groups are to explain who they received the Money from & what the Donor wanted for their money.

Indy look under your bed mate, but be careful, a COMMUNIST may be hiding there
Much worse for you reality may be cringing in a corner
Jayb please do not make not believing in God an illness
Do you think generations, of priests in many Churches, none-more so than Catholic, who raped children believed in God
A true, [there is a difference] Christian will be the first to help, be a good person
With the insult to God the American Christian right has become
How do we tell one in the crowd
Now these terrorists, follow a God
Use that God, one of three that grew out of the same tree in the middle east, are they worthy believers

What a pile of garbage. Pages of it.

These people want to come home, because they lost. That is the only reason. If they had won they would now be cheering lots of beheading.

Of course our welfare is a drawcard for those with babies at foot.

Leave them where they chose to go, & leave our limited stock of housing & the welfare dollar for more deserving people.

Belly: Indy look under your bed mate, but be careful, a COMMUNIST may be hiding there.

There's none under my bed. I've shot the B@$trd$.

Belly: Do you think generations, of priests in many Churches, none-more so than Catholic, who raped children believed in God.

There we go with Catholics again. No mention of all the others, just Catholics. Strange that.

Belly: With the insult to God the American Christian right has become.

Yes, Ahh... Baptists. Did you know that Jesus was an American?

Belly: Now these terrorists, follow a God Use that God, one of three that grew out of the same tree in the middle east, are they worthy believers.

I don't think so. Compared the Jewish & Christian Religions they are extremely backward & dangerous.

Belly,

"is mise mate I just do not understand why you think you can think for me, why the nit picking,"

You asked the question and you made the statement, so why do you not back them up when challenged?

Regarding the SS, many settled in Australia and America after the war and the majority of them made good citizens, methinks that you know zilch about the subject.

the only ones more dangerous than those Isis brides are the Marxist who hate decency as much as Islamist.

indy love it, but RUOK? is mise same but you can do better or can you
Runner?
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/isis-bride-hoda-muthana-says-she-ll-have-no-problem-n974391
Hasbeen! we agree, read the link, this thing tells us she will get back in to the USA no matter what Trump says!
Her family are suing the USA to let her return!
Today,s new the six tinny terrorists who dragged a bout up the east coast to try getting to a planed terrorist attack? four years in prison, we can not trust our justice system

Belly,

Just have the guts to answer the question.

'Her family are suing the USA to let her return!'

exactly my point Belly. A court system stacked with marxist activist judges just like our activist doctors. They hate borders and decency.

is mise do you understand, any thing,
Long ago in truth found you to be, what seems not in control of your own thoughts
TRYING desperately not to sink to your level
Can you do the same, for me?
runner, well just read your post, then answer why this lefty trash[me] thinks too, we can not trust our justice system, leaving out the pure childlike hate
If you can

Belly: we can not trust our justice system.

Runner: A court system stacked with marxist activist judges just like our activist doctors. They hate borders and decency.

Too right. You can say that again.

Belly & runner: We can not trust our justice system. A court system stacked with marxist activist judges just like our activist doctors. They hate borders and decency.

Belly,

"Do you think generations, of priests in many Churches, none-more so than Catholic, who raped children believed in God"

"...none more so than Catholic..."

Now that's being a bit anti-Catholic, maybe even being bigoted.

Care to back up that statement with a reference or two?

Did those despicable crapheads calling themselves Priests, actually kill children ?
I seem to hear the term survivors a lot, I'd have thought victims of abuse is significantly different to survivor.
What is the bandwagon factor in all this ?

Belly,

"TRYING desperately not to sink to your level
Can you do the same, for me?"

Delighted to; why would I want to sink to your level?

Delighted to; why would I want to sink to your level?
is Mise,
very wise, there's a definite oxygen deficiency at those muddy levels !

Heard the term survivors again several times on yesterday's News.

My gut tells me there's something very fishy with this case.

survivor | s&#601;&#712;v&#652;&#618;v&#601; |
noun
a person who survives, especially a person remaining alive after an event in which others have died: he was the sole survivor of the massacre.
• the remainder of a group of people or things: a survivor from last year's team.
• a person who copes well with difficulties in their life: she is a born survivor.
• Law a joint tenant who has the right to the whole estate on the other's death.

Where are you, Belly?

Researching the SS?

is mise!nice to know you care.
NBN [not bleeding now] string broke between the two cans linking me to the net
Four more days before it is right
Have been pondering your barb,the one about me singling about Catholics
Did you read my post? or just lash out after seeing that word
In fact my thought was clear,all faiths INCLUDING Catholics was my target
Humble pie at your place tonight?
Better than George Pell got methinks
Another failed human, wantingto return here
And thanks,rare but deserved [rare from me that is] the government said no way

bought a new PC, thought it was the problem.
Future thread may be about very very poor customers service from some
See some are still calling for these fools to be bought home
Not truly sure why.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-28/islamic-state-women-security-threat/10853778
Well worth the read

Belly,

You said,

"Do you think generations, of priests in many Churches, none-more so than Catholic, who raped children believed in God"

"In fact my thought was clear,all faiths INCLUDING Catholics was my target"

Those statements are at variance with each other, as you single out the Catholic Church as being a greater offender than other churches; got a reference?

How are you going with the SS?

Why would you not let some of them into Australia?

is mise well you manage to show you are not capable of true understanding
YES Catholics world wide are the worst if we see only the Christian faith as offending
Not the only but the worst
You nitpick, mine for something to dislike
Make mountains out of mole hills that never existed
Are you saying the recent history of offenders in that Church should not be highlighted
Can you assure me that Church has a future as more and more evidence comes out now about Priests raping Nuns?

See some are still calling for these fools to be bought home
Belly,
But they're all future Labor voters ?

Belly,

I'm quite capable of true understanding but are you capable of giving a reference to back up your assertion?

How are you going with the SS, would you bar all migrants for having once been members?

ismise/individual, sorry
Sorry that both of you want to see something that is not here
Indy I started the thread
Am Labor to the bone, never ever even hinted these people should ever come here
In fact the very reverse
So what individual are you talking about
Is mise,soyou are a Catholic?
And more interested in defending the indefensible within that faith?
Than talking about, or hearing, the great damage they, for years, have done?
Once Christ became a tool for the extremism of the Conservatives, he too became a victim
Once those like you, denying the truth, took to defending wrong, not demanding it end, the Church became a victim

Belly,

Of course, I'm a Catholic, a Catholic that believes that paedophiles should be executed despite whatever faith they belong to.

As a 'whatever you are' do you believe in giving references to your assertions?

Do you believe that no former members of the SS should be allowed into Australia?

Simple questions, can't you give answers?

Is Mise,

Bar anybody who had been in the SS ? Or Stasi ? Or Rumania's Securitate ? Or worked with Yugoslav paramilitaries in the nineties ? Or admitted to having been a KGB spy ?

Bloody oath.

Joe

Belly: And more interested in defending the indefensible within that faith?

Did you have a bad opinion of the Catholic Church 10,20,30 years ago & if so, why?

Are you; SDA, JW, Sth. Baptist, Presbyterian or Methodist?

Just to get where you are coming from.

ismise, you ask a silly question, yes do not let them in, ever
Yet we have
And America too,even Japanese germ warfare criminALS, BECAUSE it suited them/us
jayb bloke! I was a full on Christian, never went near the Catholics are the Devil trash
Look at their history, at the claims against so many
Know true Christians are Catholics
But do not brush over this truth
For some, too many, children seem to be the reason they became priests
And Nuns,the Brides of Christ, are revealing horrific charges against Priests
PLEASE! tell me the last time you saw a convicted Pedophils verdict questioned
And if I was still that Christian would Christ throw me on the trash heap because some brand me lefist?
Not likely no party owns that dream

Belly: never went near the Catholics are the Devil trash.

Best guess, You were Methodist.

I know you are down on Catholics & yes they are supposed to the epitome of saintliness. How come you never mention the other the Rest of the Pedophile Groups. Judges, Barristers, School Teachers, Scout Masters, Orphanages run by the Salvos & JW's & the States.

You "only" go on about Catholics, that sounds somewhat biased to me.

jayb judging on nothing but your posts you need help
How did you or ismise get that?
Was/is it a way of taking our eyes away from the thread
NO born C OF e, not a catholic hater, are you?
Why not see however no other Church is free of this crime against kids
And why not right now Catholics, worldwide,are in the spotlight?
Why too do you so very often charge of with comments that could be avoided if you read others posts
To set the record straight, it is my view no faith born in the middle east has not been tainted by this crime against children, and all have tried to cover it up

Belly,

"Know true Christians are Catholics
But do not brush over this truth"

We know that and I'm glad to see that you know it also.

Joe,

Would you also bar the British Officers, who were POWs and were ordered to join the SS's British Free Corps on the direct orders of the British Government?
or
"He includes Sgt. Cushing (60), Pte. Walsh (61), Pte. O’Brien (62) and Pte. Murphy (63), "four Irishmen who ... eventually found themselves incarcerated in a special compound of Sachsenhausen concentration camp as German doubts about their essential loyalties grew. The Germans were right to be sceptical: none of the four had any real intention of working for the Nazis ... they finished the war with no stain on their characters."[13] See Friesack Camp#Training."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_British_Free_Corps

and then there were the ordinary members of the "Waffen SS", and although it was declared a criminal organization at wars end many, if not most, of its members were ordinary soldiers.
In all the Waffen SS totalled 38 Divisions and that's a lot to paint with the same brush
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS#Divisions

Belly you have tainted the Catholic Church with everything that is bad. It sounds like you believe all Catholics to be Pedophiles.

Now, if I said I didn't like moslims because they have sex with babies, or children under nine. Just because they are married makes no difference. You would say that I was Racist. You have condemned all Catholics. Does that make you Racist, or, Prejudiced, at the least.

Do you have a prejudice against Catholics? I know the C of E were taught to be, especially the High C of E. All the OPD were taught to be Prejudiced against Catholics from birth. As were the Catholics towards the other Christian Churches. "Cross the road when you pass one of their Churches & pray for their salvation" I believe you would have been taught the same. Would I be correct in saying that?

By the way you didn't comment on the other groups, who are just a guilty as the Catholics, but don't receive near the Media attention. Why Is that?

jayb/ismise no! I did not damn the Catholic Church
Generations,maybe over a hundred of them, of people like you, did that
No true honest person can overlook the crimes of MANY not all, in that Church
You two, in finding something that is not there, in my remarks
By ignoring the Pell verdict
Are like those generations who refused to hear or see what was taking place
In another place, an ALLEGED victim,talks about telling his dad about a Priests abuse
He says his dad back handed him, quite harshly, knocking him to the ground
And SCREAMED at him never to lie about that saintly man again
You will not convince me you two are not a little like that dad.

Belly: He says his dad back handed him, quite harshly, knocking him to the ground And SCREAMED at him never to lie about that saintly man again.

Yes, that happened to me too. I went home with a Golfer to get paid after Caddying all day & he started to molest me. I took off real quick. I told the Police & was told to tell my father. I told my father & got a back hand. Such were the time back then.

I agree with the Pell verdict. What I don't agree with is the condemnation of the entire Church & everybody in it by the Media & Catholic Haters.

Why doesn't the Media give the same attention to the other Groups as it gives to the Catholic Church?

Belly,

"You will not convince me you two are not a little like that dad"

Why would I try to convince you?
We can't even convince you to use SpellCheck when you so obviously need it or a similar program.

ismise I am a master of the insult, but it is not worth it with you
You insult yourself so very well
WASP NZ,eder fought with IS in prison in the middle east
Bring him home?
Well maybe his ashes after he is shot
Lived here for over 20 years, called on others to commit murder here

Jayb said in reference to Belly

"I know you are down on Catholics..."

That can't be right because Belly said,

"Know true Christians are Catholics
But do not brush over this truth"

It was nice of Belly to say that, it shews that he has high regard for Catholics.

spelling?
Look if someone stops to help it will be a true Christian
Never ever thought other than that
Not leaving other faiths out true believers are good people
ONLY in jayb and your mind ismise can the thought live I ever targeted all Catholics
But gee do you want your Church to reform?
To put an end to these crimes forever
Or is YOUR love of Church and God blind to the victims?
Suffer the little children who come unto me
NOT suffer the little children who come to me
God set standards to live by ask him what he thinks about our debate

Belly: "Know true Christians are Catholics But do not brush over this truth"

Did you mean, "No true Christians are Catholics."

You haven't answered as to why the Media is so down on Catholics but say nothing about the other Groups. Why is that?

http://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/syrian-kurds-call-on-australia-to-take-back-its-jihadists-20190304-p511mf.html
jayb are you lost old mate?
Maybe I am wrong but I thought this place was for intelligent thought
You find in my noting the Catholic Church *world wide* is battling its own evil members, and increasing public concern, wrong
Look if you insist on being blind to the fact millions,even from within that Church, are concerned do not read my posts
Book burning, burying truth, Ostrich like behavior will not change the truth
PEDOPHILS are evil always
Now back on subject
See thelink, bring them home? our enemies? never ever ever

I know that Belly knows the difference between 'no' and 'know' and we know that Belly is not a sanctimonious hypocrite and bigot who would write that no Catholic is a Christian; we know and Belly knows that Catholicism is Christianity.

Know ye all men that we know what we know.

Belly: bring them home? our enemies? never ever ever

I agree. I see Iraq is going to start executing the Wives as well as the Husbands. Now that's a good start.

We should start sending the ones we've got here back to them & the ones that wanted to go, but Security stopped them, as well.

Belly,

"Suffer the little children who come unto me
NOT suffer the little children who come to me"

That's got to be one of your best ever!!

Morning jayb is mise? well again blame me
See I have seen some strange posters here but constantly look for the best in them
In fact one under God was nearly as bad as me in spelling and his threads often confronting
Yet we got along
Not easy to do that with you, you nitpick
You seem to invent reason to complain? are you a hen pecked husband?
jayb seems you at least read the link, yes send them to Iraq let them hand down justice
But bring them here? no way
They yes the women too, are our enemies, mortal enemies,we must confront that
We will see more murdered even on our streets, more wives who said dreadful things about us wanting to use our softer better hearts to? leave them there

Belly: are you a hen pecked husband?

Yes. How did you know? ;-)

It's a good thing they are executing the wives too. Let's see that four per ISIS fighter. Wow! That's a lot of breeders gone. Not much use keeping them around to raise future ISIS fighters. Look what happened to the Children that were saved with the "Save the Children" Campaign. They turned into Pirates & El Shabah in Somalia. That's the thanks we get.

They claim that Allah made us given them the Jizya Tax to save them so they owe us nothing in return except we MUST become moslims.

Belly,

Did you make a spelling mistake?

You mean that you meant 'no' instead of 'know',
I feel let down, here was me thinking that you are not a narrow- minded bigot and you want to prove me wrong.-

OK, I was wrong, you are a narrow-minded bigot.

Happy now?

is mise you mate have my sympathy
No true
Think I know what drives you may be wrong
But know this,I have respect for this site
Have crossed horns with many, most I respected
I will not tell you how you present to me
But only because unlike you I respect the forum
Hold hopes better days are ahead
That new posters will not be driven away by childlike drivel

Belly,

Your statement, that you admit was misspelt was that no Catholic could be a Christian, now I see that as plain bigotry.

Did you mean it or would you like to apologize to all the Catholics?

is mise it was your misspelling I highlighted , given your rants about mine I found it funny
You by the way display an unfortunate ability to make mountains out of never existing mole hills
Find a racket with some strings if your intention is to play verbal tennis
I will look elsewhere for intelligent thought

Belly,

"is mise it was your misspelling I highlighted"

Which one?

Belly,

Where are you?

Well, I really don't care. don't bring them back to Australia. Don't bring the Criminals on Manus & Nauru back to Australia either.

I don't care weather they are Men, Women or Children.. they just don't belong in Australian Society in any way shape or form.

Well lost the net is mise 6 full 24 hour days,4 before that zero service,10 not service in day working hours NBN working
Let me see, yes I am the same bloke who constantly demands we understand not all Muslims are a threat
Do not like the faith, more than any other
SAW THAT THING, HER CHILD DIED SORRY FOR IT
she never said sorry, enemies who showed no mercy for thousands deserve no mercy
We are at war, with an evil and insane SECTION OF A faith badly needing to leave the dark ages behind

Belly,

Sorry to hear that your computer was down, we use it so often, even for such mundane things as opening times for businesses.

"We are at war, with an evil and insane SECTION OF A faith badly needing to leave the dark ages behind"

Just leave out section, my good mate in India is a practising Muslim, has four wives and is a leader among his people.
He has fought Muslims on the battlefield, killed numbers of them and thinks that Australia is mad to have Muslim migrants.

is mise my point the very thing that has killed mateships even here
not all Muslims are evil
many leave the faith each day
and many who never do would die protecting us
one nation trades in blind stupid hate
PS what would we do if we lost the net say world war? much needed now

When it comes right down to it, if you want to help, then there's some risk that is required. Several European countries opened their borders trying to help, and now the risk is repaid with the cost.

But if you want justice, then help isn't what is required. You've said it yourself. We are at war.

There's not much room for a middle ground here unless spinning our wheels is what we want to do. Act to help, or act to harm. Even to act to do nothing is an act in itself to watch what happens without involvement. Depending on whether the world chooses war or chooses assistance, your doing nothing is an act of agreement with that course of action.

It doesn't have to be an all or nothing kind of deal. Instead there can be a case by case basis. But if you want to help the Muslim people, there is risk involved. If you want justice, then take the side of watching them burn as they kill and murder eachother endlessly.

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Sorry Belly. But this discussion is going back and forth of standing against the terrorists, and against Islam (capital letters of not agreeing with the religion); then switching to partially trying to be supportive. They aren't all evil, and a stand against hatred.

If you want to help them then it requires more then back and forth which side of the fence do you stand on, but instead to take a stand instead of spinning our wheels and watching what will happen regardless of our say in it. If the women don't want to apologize, then that is a very hard position to want to help them. On the next case (whatever the case may be in the future) the choice is still do you take on the burden of the risk. Simularily to adopting a drug addicted teen, knowing that they will case trouble, but taking that burden to try and help them.

That's what it will take to help Islamic populations. And honestly, that's too big of an issue to try and save. All anyone can do is choose on a case by case instance to choose to help some and let the others die by their own hands. Or to take the other stance and be against Islam fully. No help because of the danger that they pose.

not-now-soon in your opinion mate
It is not mine, in fact breeding hate,blind hate is always wrong
we are at war, with radical Islam,even the not so radical lard heads from that faith
We will defeat them but not without a fight
not by being kind, to a hate filled group we however do not want to find our humanity lost,one nation can only deliver blind hate
don't want a Labor government? vote LNP not blind radical hate, that is what we are fighting

Belly: We will defeat them but not without a fight.

That's true, but I prefer to do it elsewhere, not in Australia.

Belly: one nation can only deliver blind hate.

You say One Nation has blind hate. I beg to differ. One Nation has woken up to the fact that Islam is not good for Australia & says so. It's not good for any Western Country. That doesn't mean blind hate. I don't like Broccoli but that doesn't mean I hate it. It means that I would prefer something else other than Broccoli.

It's a typical Lefty stance. "If you don't like what I'm for than you must hate it. Therefore you are not Politically Correct, or other such nonsense so you must be in the wrong. We'll stand outside your house & shout you down so you don't have a voice." That is typically Lefty thinking. Well, that's what they do. Ay.

I would prefer any other Religion than Islam. Christianity, Atheist, Buddhist or Hindu, leaving Islam out altogether. That's not hate, that's being sensible & with-in, Workplace, Health & Safety Guidelines.

jayb mate, believing anyone not keen on one nation is a lefty is,well lost in my opinion
Even true conservatives know they are air wasters
Vote Liberal or Labor
We will need for decades, to fight the war at home and abroad
those wanting us to be kind to terrorists and those who support them should explain when did those things show compassion to any one
This election must not empower extremes on any side

Belly: This election must not empower extremes on any side.

When is One Nation extreme. One Nation only points out the "Elephant in the Room" that no Party is doing anything about. That's what the ALP & the LNP don't like, being shown up for the "Do Nothing" that they are. The Greens, ALP & LNP call it hate speech because One Nation shows them up to be useless Ego chasing twits. Malcome, Abbott, Shorten & die naturally & Pants on Fire. All Ego chasers.

I know One Nation hasn't real power to do anything but heap shame on the two Major Party's & try to force them into providing better Legislation. Well, with the Greens, she doesn't need too because they heap shame on themselves.

To Belly.

I haven't said something to be hateful. But By looking at your comments, you go back and forth on Islam quite a bit. It looks like your spinning your wheels by trying not to hate, while at the same time holding on to the hate and distaste you have for Islam.

You can't have it both ways. I don't agree with Islam, but I also don't agree with atheism or several other religions. The difference between Islam and the other religions are that there is terrorism that is popping up throughout Islam, and I honestly can't say I can tell one who is prone to turn to terrorism and be "radicalized" compared to another that wants peaceful coexistence. It's not hate to see this for what it really is. It's a dangerous risk. If you care for them then it's a risk worth taking, like taking on a troubled teen that needs help and has been in and out of homes for a long time requires acknowledgement of the dangers assoicated with bring that teen into your home. If you don't care, or don't think you can take on the burden of that risk then you don't adopt that teen.

The same is true with Islam and Islamic countries. To offer them help (because their human and it's the right thing to do, or because of any other rationale to make you say it's the right thing to do) and open the borders or send money and resources to them is an act of kindness and taking on the risk assoicated with it. The money, resources, and people we send over there could be kidnaped, killed, or fuel terrorism because of the corruption there. The ones fleeing or just moving away from that enviornment might only bring it to our homes if we let them in. That is the risk. There is no getting around that. You either take the burden of that risk, or you don't. There's no middle ground if you can't tell the difference between a terrorist in the making, and a peaceful refugee.

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This is an extreem stance to you I'm sure. But I would say that it can be restrained. You can take it by a case by case approach. Let in some without letting them all in kind of thing. The alternatives are to take them all in and show our hand for taking on more then we have the ability to handle; or to close the borders, close the foreign aid, and stop helping criminals and terrorists.

All I'm trying to say is to stop trying to take on the "no hate" stance when your words and comments already show you have no love for Islam, and are spinning your wheels trying to not be hateful but also not be generous and supportive. Does this make more sense? There's got to be a point to be practical and say "I choose this way or that way and take on the burden of that decision." You can't be on the fence forever and still think your making an effort to make the situtions better. It's not practical, but is just spinning your wheels.

One last thing, Belly.

In your reply to Jayb, you said:

<<those wanting us to be kind to terrorists and those who support them should explain when did those things show compassion to any one>>

This brings me to mind that you want an explaination. From anyone who would want to support terrorist or show them kindness. I can't give you anyone else's rationel. For me it stems to a purely simple feature. You show kindness to a criminal to save them from their crimes, and help them to not return and commit the same acts that sent them to jail. You show kindness to a teen who had an abortion not because you agree with them getting pregnet, nor because you agree with the abortion, but because you know their life's are a tangled mess and they need kindness.

These are the stances I see in society and marvel at the kindness and generousity that stem from the individuals that hold these moments of generousity and warmth even to those who are in the wrong in some way or another.

I know this is not something anyone can take full blown without sacrificing their lives fully in the process to look after those who can't, or just won't, look after themselves. But on a small scale, any of us can take a choice and try to help save one person, or one sitution by the kindness and generousity they have to spare. This is the only reason to ever take on the idea of giving kindness to a terrorist. Out of wanting to save them. Nothing more, nothing less.

not-now-soon it is not my job to please you, or yours to read my mind
Jayb just said one nation are not extremists
Leave it to you to consider that
This thread is not easy, it started as in my view pure filth, brides of terrorist who mocked us in propaganda want us to bring them home
NNS you know, surely? the numbers of Muslims murdered by these primitives is far MORE THAN ANY OTHER GROUP
YES THE FAITH, EVERY FAITH, CONTROLS US, I DISLIKE THAT
BUT NOT NEAR EVERY MUSLIM IS OF ANY CONCERN'
we, you and I , must tread between the stones, between understanding the true war we fight as we must, and not becoming blind haters of other victims who in fact are Muslim
Nice words and intentions will not win it

Belly: BUT NOT NEAR EVERY MUSLIM IS OF ANY CONCERN'

Still, I would not want to live with a Taipan in my house just because it looks so peaceful, is a beautiful snake & looks like it has a nice nature. Sometime or other it gonna bite me.

Same, Same, but different. Ay. They are all of a concern. When the bad ones turn up the moderate ones turn into bad ones very quickly. Not wishing to end up having the same fate as the infidel.

jayb, what are your thoughts on pedophils?
If I said the Pell verdict proves every Catholic is a pedophil you would be quite right to brand me a stark raving lunatic
Get my point?